According to one saying, we meet people for a reason. If it's true, every now and then that reason has to be to despise them, because some folks have a really unique ability to get under our skin and test our patience.
Interested in the topic, Reddit user cp3t_n3m0 posted a question on the platform, asking others to reveal who they believe is the worst person they have ever met, and why. From rude supervisors to violent relatives, here are the ones who made the list.
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My mother.
She told me "I hate your father, you look just like him and I hate you too". She would hit my hands with a hammer, throw me into walls, pinch my legs, shoved q-tips in my ears till they bled, rip out my hair, and smash my head into books for not being good at math.
She hated being a mother, she resented every second with me. She found clever ways to give me to others to babysit, and when she had to have me, she kept me locked away in my bedroom not allowed to talk to her.
I am now 2,000 miles away from her, I email her updates about my life a few times a year. The next time I see her will be to bury her.
I chose not to be a mother in this lifetime out of fear that I would be like her, so I'd prefer to let the cycle end with me.
We got in touch with cp3t_n3m0 and they said that, in a way, the post stems from their own personal experiences.
"I was thinking of when I was working with an unpleasant coworker—one who seemed to break every rule the company had," the Redditor told Bored Panda. "I was baffled at the fact that she wasn't kicked out right away."
They added that the woman was eventually fired, but her behavior left a lasting impression on how some people can navigate through life without any regard for others, and so cp3t_n3m0 was compelled to hear similar stories.
My sperm donor (father is not a term for him) He was a sociopath who loved torturing the family in various ways. He tied his wife to a chair to hear her scream. He tortured and killed our pets in front of us, threw me out a 2nd story window, tried to suffocate his son, turned the oldest daughter into his 2nd "wife"
When people talk about the"Good old days " I remember them as the days where secrets like this were kept and nobody would interfere with spousal /child abuse.
The "good old days" are rarely quite as "good" as you remember. I have a lot of happy childhood memories, but I also remember how back then people were racist as f**k (a LOT more so than today, and I unconsciously absorbed a lot of it which I later had to un-learn), and "gay" and "lesbian" were cheap punchlines, as were "men in dresses LOL". And, yeah, it was considered totally okay to beat your children, and none of us even knew what molestation was or what to do if some creep came after us.
My mother. When I was 15, my father finally went too far and almost killed me (choking). Mom pulled him off and he backhanded her. The next day I came home from school to find suitcases waiting and be told that we were leaving. I asked why it took so long for mom to leave him. Dear old mum replied matter-of-factly “Oh, well, he never hit *me* before. I told him years ago if he ever hit *me* I would leave.” So yeah. Those dozens (hundreds?) of times I was his teenage punching bag? I guess that was fine. F U, mum. I hope you die alone in a third rate nursing home.
So she has selective vision? Father abuses the kid and mom waits till she gets hit before leaving? Wow.I hope that woman was sterilized
As the author of the post followed the discussion, they noticed that certain groups of people were being mentioned more than others.
"Most of the replies had something to do with coworkers or parents. I think part of the reason those folks were the most common answers is simply because we spend the most time with them on any given day and truly get to see the real side of those individuals."
Plus, cp3t_n3m0 said they have noticed that people love to have a villain or someone they hate in their lives "because it makes them feel like the hero. Every story has a hero and a villain."
Debra Martin and her husband Percy “Bud” Martin are the worst people I’ve ever had the misfortune of knowing. They owned and operated hyper-religious “troubled teen” boarding schools (the latest of which was called Wings of Faith in Stockton, Missouri; sister school to Agape Boarding School) where they abused hundreds of girls over a span of decades. They got away with all of it, too.
Someone has been downvoting most of these comments. Maybe they are a part of this problem? Anyway, I upvoted them back again.
My younger brother. He's abusive he mocks me for being disabled. I have epilepsy. And he would try to trigger a seizure for his own entertainment. I once asked him why he literally said idk I was bored.
The reason he's not reported is because my mother would feel very guilty. My parents always comfort me after he's gone.
Findings from a 2022 University of California San Diego Rady School of Management study reveal people often hurt others because, in their mind, the behavior is morally right or even obligatory.
"For a majority of offenders, it's not worth the trouble to inflict harm purely from a place of cynical greed," said psychologist Tage Rai, an assistant professor of management at the Rady School of Management and author of the study. "For example, as we saw from the January 6 hearings, many of the perpetrators of the attack on the Capitol believed the election had been stolen from them and that they were morally in the right to punish the congresspeople who had wronged them."
"Many of these people will be materially punished for their actions, [but] what's unclear is whether that would stop them from doing it again," Rai added.
One of the priests at a church I used to attend was outed as a prolific sex predator and disgraced the office he was ordained to.
Essentially he would organize Bible reading groups with younger kids like a mini Bible study. Instead of studying the Bible he'd get really touchy and creepy especially with some of the younger boys (in the 8-10 age range). My cousin went to one of these studies and the priest "accidentally" grabbed his crotch when he went to pick something off the floor.
Eventually someone told before and the guy was charged. But not after several young kids were abused. Safe to say we don't go to that church anymore.
A former CFO I worked for. He convinced the CEO he was being paid too little and hatched a plan to fire 70 employees, force middle mgmt to take a 10% pay cut and all under the fake sob story that the company wasn't performing well and they "absolutely had" to take this action to save everyone else's jobs. Then only a month later, both the CEO and CFO more than doubled their salaries. The CFO did other things like contract his own employees from his side business to the company for a 100% upcharge, denied employees even a 3% raise, bullied his employees and belittled them....he was a horrible person and I wouldn't pee on him if he was on fire. In fact...I'd probably go find some gas to throw on him.
Rai wanted to test this theory further by paying people to punish others in a lab experiment.
Across four different experiments in an online economic game, he discovered that providing a monetary bonus for punishing a third party cut participants' willingness to do so nearly in half.
"The findings suggest people may be more hesitant to do harm when they stand to profit from it if they anticipate condemnation from their peers," Rai explained.
My biological father. From what I've been told, he was always rowdy and provocative, but his aggression worsened after he got involved with a cocktail of alcohol and hard d***s. He had multiple children from at least three women. I am his second child from the second woman, but his first and only known daughter. He was estranged from my life for almost a decade before I made the choice to stay away from him based on his actions.
He beat my step-mother in front of me and two of my half-brothers, nearly killing her. Why? Because she would not let him into the house while he was violently drunk. Being his wife, she knew how he behaved under the influence. She eventually let him in, and he rewarded her by pressing a glass pane against her neck.
Later in life, he beat up two more women, committed armed robbery and a host of other crimes, often under the stolen identities of his brothers. He recently succumbed to stomach cancer brought on by his destructive lifestyle. He was never apologetic for any of his actions when confronted, instead blaming others for his behavior. My first words when I found out about his passing were, "Good riddance.".
In terms of people I've actually known with terrible personalities, it would be the woman who ran the stables where my daughter used to take riding lessons.
She would make the kids do all the chores at the stables so she wouldn't have to, eventually getting to the point of not letting them ride some days because the chores took too long. Basically, it turned into a situation where we were paying $325/month for our kid to do her chores and then ride if there was time.
She bragged about how religious she was, and talked endlessly about the mission trips she took overseas to build churches. Not to build schools or dig wells, but c****y cinderblock churches. Because I guess they need her version of God more than decent hospitals.
She would bully the kids at the stables, and criticize them both in front of everyone there and in the Facebook group public chat. It would get worse if she was drunk on hard seltzers by the end of the day, which was often. She would hold competitions, and the parents were supposed to chip in for the prizes, which always seemed to go to her friends.
Finally, our daughter had enough, and we told her we wouldn't be coming back. She badmouthed her, and then told us we still had to pay her for the following month, as per the contract. When we told her no, and that we had never signed a current contract, she threatened to sue us and turn us in to Family Services over some made up BS she concocted. We called her bluff and we never heard from her again. Our daughter had actual nightmares about her for months. A truly horrible person.
People who brag about how pious (or nice, or honest, or some other positive trait) they are are always the biggest scumbuckets on the planet.
cp3t_n3m0 thinks that ultimately, the decision to cut people out of our lives hangs not only on their toxicity but also on our ability to tolerate it.
"I am a big believer in forgiveness, but sometimes, it can be too much," they said. "I think it all depends on each individual's boundaries and comfort level. Everybody is different. Some are better at handling difficult people than others."
My husband’s second ex wife.
All of this is what my oldest stepdaughter had to deal with until they got divorced when she was 12. This woman is not her mom, just the woman who pretended to be her mom but was just an evil stepwitch.
• she was pushed down several stairs while crying grabbed and thrown out the front door and told to “cry in front of the neighborhood so people can see how ugly you are.”
• got her hair pulled
• got called stupid
• had her room thrashed by the ex and then was told to pick it all up in a drunken rage
• got flipped off by the ex right in her face
• called a “b***h” right to her face
• got pushed into a dresser and cut her eyebrow- the ex lied and said she got hit with a tree branch that flung back when she was playing with her friends
• witnessed the ex pour a quarter of a handle of vodka into her Nalgene at a time everyday, and then get in the car with her to drive to sports practice with her baby sister in the car
• watched her kick and push the dog around
• watched her scold the dog so much he would get so anxious he would vomit
• watched her shove the dog down the stairs to the basement when he was too nervous to go down
• got locked out of the house in the winter and told to go play with friends that were unavailable
• got called a clown when playing dress up with grandma
• the ex carelessly left oxycodone pills laying around the house
• the ex carelessly left her “water” cup open for their three year old to take a sip of vodka and then denied it was vodka when she was angrily confronted about it by my husband.
The list unfortunately goes on.
My husband worked swing shift for several years while all that was happening, and so when she would get out of school at 2:45pm he would be on his way to his 3pm-1am shift. She ended up reaching out to her school guidance counselor, who got the dean and principal involved and looped my husband into everything.
His ex’s response when he asked what her problem was, “I guess I can do better with my temper.”
He filed for divorce a week later.
A medical officer in the army I worked for was the worst person I ever knew.
He was a Captain in the army and a Physician’s Assistant. Everything was about himself and getting a promotion and awards. He constantly berated and threatened everyone around himself, especially anyone who came close to his level of medical ability, which is why he attacked me, because I’m a paramedic. He hated all doctors.
He was denied to go to flight medical school because of psychiatric issues and psychiatric medications he was taking before our deployment, so he stopped taking the medications and was able to attend.
Our deployment to Afghanistan was a constant battle of egos and embarrassment over what he would say and do to patients and to other medical providers.
He was extremely Right Wing and religious and expressed to me his desire to force everyone on earth to be Christian and to turn the world into a colony for the USA.
I know his mind was a tortured battleground of internal conflict, but I don’t care at all about that. I just hope his life has been awful every day since I last saw him. Truly a rotten and horrible person.
This guy could give Satan a run for his reputation.
Why would they let him go to flight training with even a history of mental illness without a doctor's note that he was OK enough to not need his meds anymore.
New Supermarket manager.
She comes in wearing her home clothes, we have no clue who she is and she just walks over and yells at my 2 apprentices. I tell her to stop being rude, she says she's the new manager. I said it's still no way to treat staff.(I get written up for it on her first day)
She forced a worker to change shifts because they needed him to work on Mondays and it's his problem that he chose to have kids.
She had a poster on her door saying "not my monkey, not my circus"
She had the second in charge sign off on a heap of dodgy things and then left her high and dry.(she was asked to quit and did)
6 staff quit because of her during her 5 months there and another 16 transferred to nearby stores.
She used the staff leaving as "getting rid of dead weight" in her resume and got the job as area manager.
Worst human I've met and usually I can find the good in people.
God why are some managers like this? I had one who used to berate me in front of my staff and the public because I wanted them to get incentives before myself. She HATED that. She and an SVP would watch cameras on Saturday mornings and would call to scream at people if she saw them laughing because "if you have time to laugh, you need something to do."
My biological parents. My father was a physically abusive loser who used me as a punching bag until he and my mother split up when I was 14
My mother was a mentally imbalanced manipulative perverted alcoholic who was into emotional abuse and mindf*****g me on a regular basis.
I’m 21 and disowned both of them when I was 14. Best decision of my life. Now trying to pick up the pieces and get some semblance of a life.
Wow, at 14, that's pretty young, glad things worked out as well as they have.
My eldest sister.
She abused myself and all my siblings. She flew several states away to my racist grandfather to tell him I was marrying a black woman so I would be disinherited. She has been married 4 (going on 5) times . She stepped up financially for each one, cheated on them, and took half their money. When she works she works in nursing…she is an addict of multiple substances and it has impacted her work to the point she can’t work in anything but elective care. She escaped the consequences using the same methods she switched husbands. She got herself appointed guardian to our grandmother and embezzled all of her money. She believes that people who aren’t rich (including her family) are parasites and shouldn’t have the right to vote. She believes all people who aren’t white (even native Americans) should be expelled from the U.S. the last I heard she was attempting to start a cross-state d**g smuggling operation.
Now that I put that into writing…she is a lot worse than I thought.
I knew a guy who married a terminally ill woman for attention and sympathy, and used her death to raise money for a fraudulent charity for YEARS afterwards. He also tried to get pity sex from other women while she was still actively dying, telling them that the caretaking was sooo hard on him and sex would be a comfort.
Before her terminal diagnosis, he was only casually dating her, along with a number of other women ('ethical' non-monogamy my a*s). He proposed when she found out she was going to die and proceeded to document the whole thing on social media, asking for donations all along.
The only upside to this horrible story is that I believe this poor woman truly believed he loved her, and it gave her some small amount of happiness before her untimely death.
I used to be a federal defense attorney and represented a great deal of awful people, but the worst was probably a guy who worked as a coyote and human trafficker for a Mexican cartel. Dude was the coldest m**********r I've ever met and had a scar that went across the whole of his face right through his eye, which was milky and blind. Guy was like a damn bond villain.
I looked it up and apparently "coyote" is Mexican slang for someone who smuggles immigrants across the US border.
The very worst was one dude that was dating a girl for a long time and then he met another girl when his gf was pregnant. He decided that he wants to end his relationship to pursue the new girl and demanded his gf makes an abortion. I suspect the new girl didn't want to take a man that was expecting a kid. His gf said that she doesn't agree to an abortion. He asked her to take a walk with him and stabbed her 11 times in the belly. In court he cried and said that he did it because she was threatening to not let him see the baby once it's born, but I know he lied because he told me and several other people that he just wants "the fetus dead" so he can be free for the new romance. He looked like an angel and we never even saw him get angry. He is one evil mf.
The person my ex-wife became. She has untreated BPD, and went from an intelligent, enthusiastic housewife to a person who was abusive in every possible way, attempted to commit credit card fraud in my name, quit jobs for no reason, made no attempt at ever paying a single bill for anything about our life together, befriended convicted felons who did horrible things to children, financially and logistically enabled them to do even worse things to children by stealing money from her family and trying to bribe police officers to destroy evidence, moved these criminals into my house, killed my dog because "it looked at her funny", and plotted to end my life.
Reminds me of a manager i had during my brief stint at Target!
She wasn’t even my direct manager, but she gave every direction with the most condescending voice possible and, in my view, bullied a couple of guys with neurodevelopmental conditions that put them under the protection of the ADA. I start talking to these guys about their protections if they go to HR and disclose. I get sick with COVID, and they’re both fired by the time I’m back.
I wanted to ream her on the walkies when I walked out, but I settled for waiting until she asked me to do something, saying yes, and then going to say goodbye to the coworkers I liked before telling HR exactly why I was walking out the week before Black Friday and 2 days after another coworker had his last day.
Let me tell you about my dad's ex wife.
When I was in college and working for a beer distributor, my dad started dating this woman. She was actually the mom of one of my former classmates.
She did not live with us, but she was staying at our house often. Sometimes even when my dad wasn't there, like if he was working late or out hunting or something. Now, bear in mind I was a 21-year-old man at this point. She decided that lights out in the house for everybody would be 9pm. There would be no overnight guests, and girls were not allowed. My dad was so whipped, he not only capitulated to these demands, he began causing a fuss with me when I did not. So I got my own apartment. I didn't want to upset him, so I told him the evening before I moved out that I was moving out the next day. No joke, the next morning her daughter was there with a truck full of stuff and my dad's girlfriend was rushing me out of the house so she could move her daughter into my room.
A couple months go by and my dad decides he's going to marry this girl, so they go to the courthouse and get it done real quick.
She's gotten worse by this point in bossing him around. My dad has to sneakily visit with me or have me and my future wife over because she's convinced that my dad will have an affair with her, so doesn't want him around her. My understanding is she also didn't want him around any of his female friends.
They were married for about a year when they rode his motorcycle out to the biker bar they frequented, and she got so sauced he told her to get a DD or a cab to get her home because he didn't want her falling off of his bike. He rode the bike home and he was awakened by her son and a bunch of his high school buddies yanking him out of his bed and beating on him for leaving her at the bar. He grabbed his pistol and told them to get out, and they did, then his wife called the police. My dad was arrested for menacing with a deadly weapon and had his firearms confiscated by the police (this mess was still ongoing at the time of his death about two and a half years later; and we spent about another 6 months fighting with the police department to give his firearms back after the charges were dropped following his death).
My dad was talking to a lawyer about filing for a divorce on the exact day that he was served with divorce papers with a protective order and was barred from entering his own house , that was across the street from my grandpa's house. He was allowed to get clothes and stuff with a police escort. The police escort? Her new boyfriend, the cop that arrested my dad. My dad was able to get the protective order overturned and was able to stay at my grandpa's house for the duration of the divorce. She tried to hide assets like the big screen tv and exercise equipment and stuff by "gifting" them to her brother. When it was discovered, her case was entirely f****d. She had been trying to get everything by saying my dad was abusive (he was not). She ended up walking away from the divorce with only the car that my dad financed with her. About 6 months after that she traded it in, and my dad was stoked it was no longer part of his credit. My dad got the house, all of the stuff in the house, the boat, the motorcycles, his truck. Everything. My gramps and I had to go to her brother's house and pick up all of the items that she had put in his house (my dad was working and couldn't go and didn't want to start trouble anyway).
The story doesn't end there, though.
A couple years after the divorce my dad died unexpectedly in a motorcycle crash. My sister and I were listed as the beneficiaries on his will and his life insurance (his ex wife was never listed in any of these documents; he let me know where they were while he was still alive because she was throwing a fit about that). I was on top of everything because I needed the distraction, so I was contacting insurance and funeral parlors and all of that stuff. Turns out the funeral parlor will make the insurance claims on your behalf and then just cut you a check for the difference after the fact, so I let them handle that part. When it came time to true up following my dad's funeral, they asked about someone with his ex wife's name. She had apparently called the life insurance company and tried to file a claim against his life insurance, and they told them about it.
My dad.
Hit my mom when I was 4, did it again when I was 12. In between that he spied on me and caught me talking s**t about him online, and grounded me for a year. Didn't see him again for another 15 years after he hit my mom the second time, when I decided to see if he had changed.
Unfortunately, he had two daughters in the meantime who he of course spied on.
He was involved in a car accident that killed someone, but thinks he should be able to have a a special license that lets him freely drive over the speed limit.
He thinks someone tried to poison him with anthrax.
He thinks he crashed his bike one time because he got roofied. Couldn't have been his fault.
I blocked his number when he wouldn't stop texting me covid conspiracy theory c**p, and pro Putin propaganda.
The worst part is that he's technically actually very intelligent... What an absolute waste of a human being, i hope to never see him again.
Sounds like he's got some very serious issues with paranoia, as well as being a complete POS.
My uncle tried to sue my family to take over their business after they hired him when he was desperate for money.
Two months after he loses the suit he gets drunk and kills a woman:his gf who refused to have sex with his army buddy.
Even worse he does such a p**s poor job hiding the body he gets caught and put in prison almost immediately.
He tried to burn the body. Didn’t work. He wrapped it in a carpet and threw it out like less than a mile from his town border.
He lives in the country, there are hundreds of ways to hide a body in a way that no one would ever find it.
Also he abandoned both his kids and got into a relationship with a woman who took all his (very little) money and broke up with him lol.
Edit: on a smaller scale he once stole my bugs I found to use them for fishing trip that I was not invited to.
My grandfather had been a successful salesman and was elderly and retired when his wife died. So then he took on a younger woman and her two adult daughters who hated him and drained his estate so that my mom and her sister got nothing, then divorced him. He went from living in retirement in a massive 3-level, swimming pool, hillside 1960's jet-set retreat of a home to being wedged in with our threadbare, hungry, month-to-month budget suburban family of six on the poor side of town, to finally dying in hospice with Parkinson's disease.
He deserved it, honestly. He did terrible things to a few people - right up into his final years - and had some dark secrets. His first wife deserved a better husband and my mom deserved a better father.
I don't think I've ever described the son of a b***h that way before. I just kept it inside.
My late Father told me something shocking in the year before he passed. He had a much older brother who all of his siblings loathed, including my Dad. He was a scummy scam artist type. He told me that when he was young, my Uncle showed up with a wife and she was younger and apparently a nice woman. They only met her the once and he never spoke of her again to his Mother. One day about 20 years later, a knock on the door. It’s the police. They question my Grandmother about her and say she disappeared the year they got married. They suspected my Uncle killed her. He died in 1999 and I guess they were never able to prove anything.
A guy from Abilene, Texas I went to college with. He carried a rifle around in his jeep because he, "heard there were a lot of (insert gay slur) in DC. He believed white people were smarter, and therefor superior, and liked calling me 'Comrade" in this snide, backhanded tone because I'm part Russian, but would also tell me I don't count as pure white because my mother is from Iran (she's not - she's from Pakistan). He saw no difference between any middle eastern country.
My ex
We dated long distance for a year. I was so in love and young at the time and wasn’t thinking smart. I went down to my country to see him and stayed there a month. I was broke as f**k on vacation. Through the entire relationship, I sent him lots and lots on money. Only thing I’ve received from him is a giant teddy bear and a big pandora bracelet that I lost. I returned to the US and he tell me God had been showing him signs that the relationship won’t work. Why did it take you a year and after I spent all my money and wasted my time to come see you for you to notice that? I got chlamydia from him. I went to the doctor and while I was waiting for my results to load while on the phone with him, I cracked a joke and said I got chlamydia. After the results loaded I actually had it. He didn’t even know what it was and there was no way you’re a grown man that’s sexually active and have to clue what an sti/std is. I hate him till this day and I want all my coins back.
Unfortunately, my own father. I don’t even know where to begin. He has severe schizophrenia that he was treating himself with [substances]. He abused my siblings and I in every way possible and killed animals in the neighborhood for fun in his free time and threatened to kill my mom if she left him. Eventually they divorced when I was 15 and we were forced to stay at his house every other weekend with him and his new girlfriend (now wife) and listen to them have sex in the shower in a single story house where all of us could hear and wouldn’t even feed us the two days we were there while my siblings and I survived on junk food. After I graduated high school, he decided he wanted nothing to do with me and I was relieved not having to go through that again.
He came back into my life after I had my son and I let him come around just to be nice but I was still keeping my distance. Then one of my cousins got married and the entire family was invited except for my siblings and I. I really didn’t care because I was never close with his side of the family but my sister was upset and he flat out told her that he and my extended relatives wanted nothing to do with us all because of my mom and a fight she had with my aunt years prior to that. That’s when I decided I was done and wanted no part in his bull s**t whatsoever and I have not seen him in 6 years.
Had a supervisor who greeted me with "Hello a*****e." every single time he saw me. You ep in full view of his bosses and no one said a thing.
In college a “friend” was dating my ex (who I was on good terms with) and went out of her way to act friendly to me. Then she told me in detail how good the sex was. Later I was talking to a mutual friend about “friend’s” child. I learned that she had told our mutual friend that she had lied about being on birth control. The father of that kid had married her and was happy to raise the baby. But the marriage was boring. So now this lady was after my ex. My ex was lucky and dodged that bullet.
Whenever I like to sip some tea I’ll FB stalk this evil person. She’s had 5 babies with 4 different men and you never hear about these kids after they’re 2 and able to talk back.
Aw that reminds me of the new manager at a supermarket I worked at in high school and college. I was the most tenured bagger, always showed up early, worked hard, and never called in sick. I also did checking (even though no one trained me, and ran the customer service booth). I was out getting carts and saw a friend I hadn’t seen in a few years so I stopped and talked to him for about two mins. As I come in the manager comes up to me and says “I clocked you out for your break since you were out there talking.” Within the first month of him being there something like 30 people quit. I can’t say it was all bad, I did get a raise…. of $.05 per hour. Anyway, the manager was fired within 3 months
Majority of these kinda posts always seem to stem from d***s, alcohol abuse and a certain religion? :\
I have a very hard time reading this kind of stuff. On the one hand there's people out there worse than my abusers on the other hand it's so sad seeing it happen to innocent people
Majority of these kinda posts always seem to stem from d***s, alcohol abuse and a certain religion? :\
I have a very hard time reading this kind of stuff. On the one hand there's people out there worse than my abusers on the other hand it's so sad seeing it happen to innocent people