Thank you, Phyzzi, for further extrapolating my point, but mostly for being a complementarion. The world needs more positivity, wherever and however it can occur

Of course there's toxic femininity - its when women prefer to be treated like second class citizens (barefoot, pregnant, kitchen BS) - or put on a pedestal or considered to be a damsel in distress rather than treated as an equal by men. My mum discouraged me from going to university because she thought I should rather find myself a rich husband and have babies - that's pretty f*****g toxic. It's besides the point though. Your comment that toxic masculinity doesn't exist because there isn't a female equivalent is utterly absurd.

Yes. Personally I think when we women are to passive then it's a form of toxic femininity. Both because it it's damaging for us but for those around us to because then the person can be come resentful and they aren't living to the full potential that could be good for all of society

That's not what it's called, though. That's internalized misogyny. Taking on the "ideals" of the patriarchy, which only causes them harm. Patriarchal influences are the root for both that and toxic masculinity.

That’s a true shame Doc, because you really sound like an interesting person. I think that sometimes people get so stuck on looks that they don’t bother to get to know the soul behind the face.

You hit the nail on the head. I know that this will sound arrogant, but I AM interesting. I've seen and done a lot in my life, things most people never do. But I get judged on my looks. People take one look at me and decide I'm not worth getting to know. Maybe I'm too ugly. Maybe they are scared of me. Whatever it is, they never give me the chance to find out what I have to offer. And its not just me. I see it happen to a lot of people.

I'm sorry to hear that. You're obviously looking in the wrong places! I believe that if a person is attractive on the inside, it makes their outside beautiful/handsome. If a person is ugly on the inside, even if they're "attractive" on the outside, they become ugly. That's my philosophy. I know that I'm not alone in my thinking. You should VERY interesting, and would provide a great time.

Again, not to sound arrogant, but I am interesting. Spend time with me and you might end up going to play with wolves, getting on tv, part of archaeological dig, or more. Every other saturday I run a movie night online for my friends. People love it because I make comments during the movie, turning it into a fun And education experience. You never know what you are going to learn at movie night. (And yes, people do enjoy my comments. I don't over talk, and several times people have mentioned that they only watch certain films they ordinarily hate because of me and how entertaining I am). But it doesn't matter. No one is willing to give me a chance.

I'm not as outgoing nor can I go out as much as you because of my chronic illness, but let me just say that male eyes rarely, if ever, pause on my face, much less my figure. When I would go out with my late husband, the gasps of literal astonishment were audible. No joke. But our compatibility was not just because he liked my face, because he did, amazingly, he liked the way I laughed, and cooked and was interested in so many other topics, even when we disagreed on others. He opened my world to so many interests, and I did the same for him, that it felt like the 6 yrs we had together were the equivalent of others' 30. We were rarely apart from the day we met, and we did have our disagreements, there were a few times I almost walked out, but in the end, it was a match that couldn't have been more strengthening for both of us. Soul mates? You bet. He challenged me and I him. We were not all calm waters, and watching the sunsets on a beach somewhere. Those are true soul mates.

Honestly, personality will take you much further than looks ever will. A man with a sense of humor is the most attractive thing. The way you just responded to harpling was not attractive

Hmm... I think you have dated some really awful women, quite frankly. They sound completely shallow. May I be blunt? What do you look for? Do you ask 'ugly' (though this is subjective) women out? I know you say personality isn't as important but by describing the women you have dated you've made it abundantly clear that personality is absolutely everything! Theirs sound awful. I'd rather have an ugly but kind partner thanks. Were you going for looks or going for personality yourself? If you think looks matter is this influencing your choices too much? Go for personality, go for character. Sod how they look. You fall in love with WHO they are. I worked with many women with 'ugly' (their opinion) men but they LOVED them and loved their face and who they were because they were kind, decent and funny people. People like that exist.

I've heard that all before, "I'd rather date someone who is ugly with a good personality than the other way before," but except in rare cases it just isn't true. I've seen it time and time again, and no not just with me. I have many friends and acquaintences that are genuinely good guys. Kind hearted, fun, intelligent, caring, even good stable careers. And I've watched them get shot down time and again, because they aren't good looking enough, tall enough, etc. Yet I have also watched girls literally fight to be with the guy who openly abused his girlfriends because he was handsome. I'm talking actual injuries over the right to be abused next. What do I look for? A girl I can talk to, both silly and serious. A girl who laughs at my jokes. A girl who, when I ask things like "want to go play with wolves," says yes. I've dated girls who I was not physically attracted to because I thought we were compatible. One of them skipped the country on me. Again, not an exageration.

Fair enough Doctor Strange. I can't argue with your own experience. I can only say that it is fairly removed from my own and the people I know with just one exception (who is alone because of it). No idea why you'd end up with such reactions from these women, encouraging suicide and skipping the country are not typical reactions even when a relationship ends (unless we are missing something and yet you don't seem nuts!). Anyone fighting over an abusive man must be bloody thick quite frankly! No idea why they'd want that just because the package is pretty. Seriously, no thanks. For what it is worth, any normal (by which I mean not an axe murderer) man who had said to me 'want to go play with wolves' would have their hand bitten off politely! I'm sorry, people are stupid.

The girl who caused my suicide was dating someone else when we met. One of my college room mates, to be precise. One I didn't know, the other guys in the room brought him in. He was, frankly, a jerk. Arrogant, didn't treat others well. The girl and I became friends, and honestly I spent a lot of time 'patching up' their relationship because she'd turn to me when he treated her poorly. I was much more naive then, so I tried to help them stay together. Then, she got into a terrible car accident. By some miracle, she was unharmed. But after that she had terrible nightmares, and only I get talk her down and get her to sleep. Short version, she eventually confessed to falling for me, and I (being naive and still recovering from my previous relationship) went with it. Ultimately, she admitted that she was trying to hurt me, to push me to suicide. Because I made her realize that she was no longer in love with the other guy. They were highschool sweethearts and she (cont.)

(cont.) had a whole life planned out with him. But after meeting me, those plans were gone because "(he) no longer met my standards and those new standards are (me)." Her exact words. I made her realize that the guy she was with wasn't a good guy, that there were better out there, and she hated that. So she pushed me to commit suicide.

Ah... okay, I see it now. Thank you for taking the time to explain it. Though still a really horrible thing to do on her part. I honestly wasn't making it up about the people I've known who ended up liking the faces of the ugly men that they got to know and now love. Humans do care far too much about external appearances - look at the reactions even here on BP and when it's not even the point of an article. I'm not going to insult you by mouthing platitudes but I really do wish you well. You sound a decent man who deserves much better.

They are lucky, but not everyone is. Do I deserve better? I honestly don't know. I try to be a good person, but I'm not so arrogant as to say that I am. I have my flaws. I do my best, but does that mean I deserve better? Honestly though the point is moot. Whether I deserve it or not, this is my life.

Dude, I'm ugly as a s**t stain, but yeesh. My wife doesn't find me attractive either, but there are other reasons someone can love you. My first wife appreciated my kindness. She then cheated on me with her high school boyfriend, so I know what that's like. My second (and current) wife likes that I have a stable job that makes enough so she doesn't have to work, and also that I was a good father to my son, and now our daughters. I don't ask for compliments on my looks, because I won't get one. My youngest kid will say, I'm the best dad in the world, but her basis of comparison is weak. My wife would say I have a gentle soul. Don't worry about being desired. It's not for everyone. You can still be happy.

This is meant as a genuine compliment and though not unsolicited you may still appreciate it as it might not sound like a compliment at all - here we go... I think you are intelligent, mature and self-aware enough to understand the following: As long as YOU think of yourself as ugly, define your life by the women that played you and that you got the last genuine compliment at the age of six nothing will change. You don't appreciate and love yourself enough and that is what your surroundings mirror to you. You want to be genuinely told that you are handsome? Alright! Place yourself in front of a mirror, look yourself in the eyes and say it! Feels strange? Doesn't matter! Do it. Every day. Every f*cking day. Until you believe it. Until you finally believe it yourself. New Challenge afterwards? Say "I love you." Again, until it becomes true. I promise you, your life WILL change for the better. Stop waiting to receive something from others that you are not even willing to give yourself.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/emotional-fitness/201001/you-dont-need-love-yourself-first

"There is a psychological myth going around that you have to love yourself before someone else can love you. The real truth is that many people learn to love themselves by first being loved by another. If you never had a loving family, it's more difficult to build healthy self-esteem. Appropriate affection from another person may be the magic touch you need to actually believe that you are loveable. When someone you admire gives his or her heart to you; it makes you feel cherished and in turn you learn to love yourself."

You are giving the responsibility for your own luck and well-being into the hands of other people - how well has it worked so far? You are the most important person in your live, do something about it!

Telling people they must love themselves first is not only not helpful, it is actively harmful. It is no different than victim blaming. It is telling them that the reason you are lonely is because you aren't good enough, because you aren't trying hard enough. https://www.aboutselflove.com/post/toxic-positivity

That is firstly not true and secondly definitely not intended like that. I come from a difficult family, I have Asperger's, and I can for sure tell my own personal story about self-worth, love and the lack thereof. I don't say "Just think positive and everything will be rainbows and butterflies!" - that would be toxic positivity for sure! It is NOT easy and it takes time and a shítload of effort to overcome old ways of thinking (especially about yourself) - but you can do it. Don't wait for this "magic touch" that somebody else says "I love you" because it might either never come, or, even worse, you will not believe it because you are telling yourself "this can't be true, she just wants something from me" or anything like that. You ARE already good enough just the way you are, You do not need to "try hard enough". Allow yourself to feel it. You already have the power, just try it - I love you!

It is absolutely true. To get EMT certified, the training includes suicide prevention. You know what they tell you to Never say? Things like "It's not that bad." "You can get through this." And yes even, "You just have to love yourself." Instead, a far FAR better approach is to start with listening to them and saying something like, "Wow, that sounds like you've had a really tough time." Because you are acknowledging that their problems are REAL, not just dismissing them or worse blaming them for it. THEN they'll be ready to listen and you can move on to "But, how about if I help you handle this one thing. Then we'll work on the next one." If you want to help someone, HELP them. Offer them real, Tangible help. If someone is lonely, spend time with them. If someone is hurting over rejections, be their wingman and help them get a date. Don't just tell them "love yourself first." That is not only not helpful, but is actually harmful.

I AM trying to offer real help even though you apparently cannot see that so far - which is your choice and I have to respect that. I think it is too personal to continue this discussion in the comment section, however, feel free to contact me directly (again, your choice, I hold no grudge if you don't) then we could go over this in more detail if you like. I considered suicide a fair plan B for large parts of my life, you can believe me that I do take loneliness and hurt seriously... I cannot go into a club or bar with you and help you "get a date" (and I don't think that would be the solution, to be honest) but I could try and work with you sharing what I have experienced so far. I really wish you all the best, from my heart.