Yes, transmen and non-binary afab people menstruate too, but you would make a nice neutral tampon package for them that doesn't have any "girly" stuff on it, you wouldn't write "just find a hole and hope for the best". To me, this one looks clearly like a fake product meant to insult people, instead of a supporting one. But the rest of what you're writing is very true, so you definitely don't need to get so many downvotes.

You are using the usual TRA tactic of cherry picking fluid definitions, or at the very least making them up on the fly. Transgender does not equate to the desire to transition? You'll be getting kicked out of the Rainbow Club if you say that too loudly.

You are the one making up definitions on the fly. That transgender is an umbrella term that doesn't equate a desire to transition is a decades old consensus by now, and used in actual medical research and care. A transsexual person is a transgender person who want to transition. A non-binary person is also a transgender person, but might not have any clear gender direction to transition to, or any desire to. Trans does not mean transition, it is a latin prefix meaning beyond or the other side. I think you underestimate just how established these definition are. I am not concerned about any club, you are being cute for no reason.

And this is why it's impossible to debate transgender; the definitions and terminology constantly shift in order to support the argument at hand. Transgender as an umbrella term is a relatively recent development which not all trans people agree with. ' Celebrity' transwoman, Brianna Wu, for example, only a couple of weeks ago posted a tweet basically denying the validity of NB identities, calling it a recent fad that is nothing to do with transgender. Quote: "Then about five years ago, this non-binary trend exploded.Their main political tactic has been to conflate my medical condition with their identity even though there’s zero evidence this is the same thing. Rather than legitimate activism through the political process, they mostly just Hector and shame people that cannot magically intuit their pronouns". So if they can't agree on terminology amongst themselves is it any wonder that others are cynical about the whole thing? https://x.com/BriannaWu/status/1838536599119774138

Why do you think transgender is something that needs to be debated? There is no "argument at hand", you are very much tilting at windmills here. It's just a phenomena that some people do not identify with the gender they were assigned, it's not rocket surgery, there's no "agenda" to that. The rest is trying to best understand this phenomena and use as accurate terminology as possible to describe commonalities, and you might be confused by this as that tends to update as research progresses. This is the case of any field of study, you can take computer science for example and the most used words have shifted by a lot just over the last two decades. This is to have generalized terminology, of course not all people it is meant to cover will agree with it or feel comfortable with it. It strikes me as peculiar, that you just a moment ago accused me of cherry picking and you are providing me with Brianna Wu's quote here as if that would meaningfully support your argument. [cont.]

[cont.] Brianna is misguided or at least misinformed in what she is talking about, non-binary gender identities have existed for hundreds if not thousands of years. Sometimes in form of ethnic and cultural genders, you have Hijras, Fa'afafine, Muxe, Sworn Virgins, Kathoey, Xanith, Māhū and many others. Sometimes there existed non-binary genders outside established cultural norms. It's just since the 90's we've been talking about a gender binary, and thus, non-binary became a term that started being used to describe people who fall outside it. But that people fall outside it is nothing recent. Not that "recentness" is any good argument either, you shouldn't discard something for being novel if it holds importance to people. And furthermore, Brianna Wu is often set as an example of someone who has very controversial opinions on trans matters, someone who goes against the status quo, so she isn't a very typical example to bring up. [cont. again]

[cont. 2] It worries me that you say "they" can't agree in terminology "amongst themselves" and that's a good reason for people to be cynical "about the whole thing". Wu is in your mind part of a homogenous "they"; trans people; who should homogenously agree on things "amongst themselves". It's a red flag you are talking about trans people as a single mass, and that you feel that you have to state a reason to be cynical about "the whole thing". It makes me wonder if you might hold onto some transphobic dogmas, can you see why it makes me wonder that, based on that? Let me ask, why do you care about trans people? Like what makes you care?

What makes me care? First, as a lifelong supporter of and advocate for women's rights, I care that their hard-won rights are being stripped back as they are forced to accommodate men who identify as women in their single-sex safe spaces, associations and sports. Second, until my wife's health deteriorated to a state that required me to become a full-time carer for her we were foster carers and as such advocates for the safety and protection of vulnerable children. Seeing such children exploited in the name of gender ideology angers me. Seeing the uproar from trans advocacy groups over such things as the Cass report, their absolute rejection of scientific and medical knowledge; their insistence of continuing with the large-scale, completely uncontrolled experiment of transitioning vulnerable children with medical interventions that cause permanent damage to the bodies of those children - that angers me. Third; as the father of a lesbian daughter who, along with her wife, (cont)

(cont) has faced increasing hatred from men identifying as lesbians who have forced their way into the groups and places where my daughter once felt safe angers me. To hear of her being called an evil bigot for refusing to believe that men can be lesbians is astonishing. I don't have transphobic dogmas; it isn't the people I object to, it's the ideology behind the movement; it's the Lysenko-esque replacement of established science in favour of ideology; it's the ongoing litany of hate towards anybody who dare speak against or even question the ideology; it's the institutional capture that is pushing the rights of women and children back in favour of an ideological movement that is, at root, (cont)

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You're saying you don't hold transphobic dogmas but mischarecterizing trans women as "men identifying as women" is textbook transphobia, let's call it for what it is so we can move on. You are attempting to justify this transphobia by claiming to care about a number of things. For instance, you bring up a rejection of scientific and medical knowledge. Should I need to remind you that you are the one who rejected conmonplace scientific definitions of transgender and transsexual? [cont.]

[cont. 1] On the topic of science, you bring up biological factualness. Here's a pop quiz: What biologically determines whether someone is a man or a woman? Is it endocrinological sex, gonadal sex, chromosomal sex, epigenetic sex, morphological sex, immunological sex, SRY gene presence, dimorphic brain structures, internal reproductive organs, hormonal sensitivity? In this context, I can confidently say I know what I am talking about regarding biology, having studied it, can you? If you wanna talk biology we can talk biology. Or did you just bring up science to have a crutch for your pre-conceived ideas about trans people? [cont.]

[cont. 2] Then you say you care about lesbians. But that's somehow missing how fundamental trans women have been for lesbianism and lesbian liberation. Do the names Sylvia Riviera, Gay Liberation Front, Stonewall Inn, Julia Serano, Lesile Feinberg, Sandy Stone, Kate Bornstein, Beth Elliot - ring any bells? How about all the historically prominent lesbians who've had and have transgender partners? Are you actually invested in gay liberation or did you perhaps bring up lesbianism to, again, have a crutch for your pre-conceived ideas about trans people? [cont.]

[cont. 3] You say you care about the safety of children, but while the bulk mass of trans politics is invested in the staggering suicide statistics within trans youth, you focus your energy on semantical hangups and ideological accusations. On the Brianna Wu's and having been called a Nazi. I don't doubt you care about children, but does it only mean certain children? Do you think, maybe, you brought up the safety of children - to have a crutch for your pre-conveived ideas about trans people? [cont.]

[cont. 4] Finally, as I think there is not much more to be said here. It's very telling that minority hate is thinly veiled as legitimate concern, when the entire pivot is on the question of access to public and private spaces. Historically, this is one of the most common patterns seen in minority hate. When people want to demonize a group, they shift the focus away from real social progress like decreasing mortality rates, and move it to discussions about spaces and how these spaces are "invaded". You can think of the historical examples yourself. I am not invalidating debate on whether trans people should be able to go to their bathroom of choice, or saying I agree with one or the other - the point is when all the focus pivots on a group's access to spaces, chances are your intentions are more rooted in minority hate than legitimate concern. Or in any case has the same effect. Please reflect on this and have a nice day!

Transgender - identifying as the opposite to one's biological sex. NB/GN - Identifying as not having a gender. Different things, sweetcheeks.

Source that's not your own mansplained definition? I'll wait. There's nothing in the medical or everyday understanding that treats gender fluid/non-binary/neutral as largely distinct from the broader trans umbrella, since it all has to do with TRANSition from assigned birth gender. It's in the f***ing name, you dense cabbage.

Nope. There is no such thing as 'the trans umbrella'. That's a rhetorical device encompassing many disparate conditions and ways of identifying. If these things weren't distinctly different then the letter salad would end at 'T'. The NB/GN identities require no transition, just a statement of rejection of a sex binary. They are in no way connected to transgender, an ideology that reinforces a binary through identifying as one or the other sex. So, no, transgender does not include NB; it would be oxymoronic to claim otherwise, you withered cauliflower (if we're trading vegetable-based insults).

Go home Grandad, you're an embarrassment

Try presenting an argument instead of childish insults.

I have presented an argument, you haven't replied

Reply posted just now. I'm on UK time, your posts were around 3am here.