(...2) Have a read of this article from a humane pig farmer for some genuine insight into just one issue that complicates the whole idea of humane slaughter: https://www.thedodo.com/the-last-pig-459704635.html True, the vast majority of farm animals wouldn't exist if it weren't for the meat industry, but neither would equivalent wild species ever come close to such numbers in a sustainable ecosystem. Consider this remarkable graphic: https://xkcd.com/1338/ The sheer environmental impact alone of such massive-scale farming and slaughter is monumental, and utterly unsustainable in the long run. There is absolutely NO way to feed meat to more than a tiny fraction of the humans currently living on Earth by "ethical" farming/slaughter... it's only feasible by modern intensive factory farming methods.

(...3) Ultimately, the vegan suggestion isn't that we should just stop all this overnight, clearly that's impossible, and would only burden the world with the support of billions of extra beings to care for into old age. But the entire current populations of billions will be dead to factory farming within a year or two at normal rates... how about we just stop creating more, just so they can live out pathetically short lives, almost invariably in horrendous conditions? Yes, having created all these domesicated "breeds", it might be argued that it is encumbent upon us to protect an ecologically sensible number of them from extinction in sanctuaries. There's no reason this needs to be associated with the meat industry. We protect Pandas and Elephants without the need to farm and eat them.

I think there's still a lot to consider/discuss regarding your points here. On the idea of rare "breeds" - the clue is surely in the name. These are domesicated branches of a long-ago-wild species which *we* have created, artificially, over hundreds/thousands of years... they're invariably selectively bred to have "productive" characteristics, such as painfully fast growth, and that often brings a variety of health complications. These aren't necessarily traits that it's particularly humane to perpetuate. We're not talking about stopping a naturally occuring endangered species from going extinct here. It's also endlessly debatable whether there's even any such thing as an "ethical" way to eat meat. The whole notion smacks of people wanting to reassure themselves of their moral superiority, while maintaining the convenience/luxury of being able to eat whatever they feel like. (...)

How do I find high welfare meat? Honestly, I want to know.

not get to live at all? you cant be serious? do you have any idea how the industry works? they are bred into existence just to be on the kill floor within months,except for females who are continuously raped,have their babies taken from them.these pictures>Look into their eyes ..traumatized animals...they have gone through hell....farm animals are often genetically modified to grow,they stand in their own excrement all day, they are pumped full of antibiotics so they don’t get sick & die. is this the living you speak of?most breeds that are nearly extinct are not because of they were ever on our plates..but due to hunting,poaching & fur/leather industry. All beings tremble before violence. All love life. All fear death. See yourself in others.We are currently growing enough food on earth to feed 10 billion people…but it goes to agriculture-the animals that live in cemented prisons,that dont see the light of day... NO ETHICAL WAY to murder-if so kill the animal yourself,would you?

Very well put, Ruth

2/ prate on about how eating meat is barbaric as if they are vastly superior to their place in the ecosystem. So is urbanisation and an obscene reliance on tech and a general divorce from the natural world. We have lost so much natural world to urbanisation, transportation, throwaway fashion, tech and monoculture cropping, it's abysmal. This is not about blood thirsty meat eaters relishing slaughter, this is about people understanding how to be truly sustainable. The loss of grazing herbivores to our natural landscape has been a disaster. Intensive farming and feedlots are a disaster and not a substitute. The kind of farming Ruth and I are talking about IS a step in the right direction. Don't forget, many parts of the world have land abundant on pasture, which is built upon, or artificially nitrified to grow crops. It should be supporting grazing animals and an abundance of wildlife.

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

@Dan W. Anyone who spends the extra money and effort to eat local ly produced and high welfare animal products, has already thought deeply about the points you make and understands them well. They already remove support for intensive farming and feedlotting. I'm a lifelong vegetarian, who is seriously considering starting to eat meat. A vegan diet require's monoculture, chemicals and high carbon output. Yes you read that right. Monoculture farming only takes from the earth. Holistic and regenerative (please note, they incr Ase productivity, they are well able to support the world, but not without drastic changes to how we spend money and to the unsustainable expectation of uber convenience that has infected the developed world ) gives back. If you have a small scale farm, diverse with animals and plants, using holistic methods, your consumption is cyclical. Carbon, mineral, nutrient and water cycling are all present. As is supporting a balanced ecosystem. It irritates me when humans