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Jup he pursuaded people first with better economy, jobs and stuff like that. Better infrastructure. Insurances. Later all the evil ideas came out..

It'd be very interesting to see the demographics on these sort of contentious votes.

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In the USA, the illegals get free everything, and they aren't vetted. When in an airplane they state "put your own oxygen mask FIRST, then assist others. Think about it, libs. And believe it or not, I have just as much a right to my opinion as you.

Bollocks. You can't claim from the government without a legal identity.

Heated discussion here and some confusion I think. There is left and right and there is conservative and progressive. You can be a conservative left and a progressive right so I think it'd help if those are not confused. In general left means not to exclude people - if your main goal is to exclude you are either not left or an radical extremist (say welcome to Stalin, Mao, and so on). Now while it's true that the NSDAP (the nazi party) did many things that socialist parties do they did those only for what they deemed true blooded Germans which is a extreme right view. One of the reasons for the war with Russia was to get land for Arians (Lebensraum) with the intention to kill the Slavs, which again is not a left wing trait. Another truth that everybody tries to bury: nobody liked the jews back then. Refuges were not allowed to cross borders, pushed back to Germany fully well knowing the Nazis going to kill them. To make sure this is not going to happen again asylum laws were introduced

I think though that you can push so far left that you become fascist. Not commenting on Hitler, but look at what some of the militant protest groups are advocating yet claiming to be left wing. Their belief that what they say is right and damn anyone else makes them just as fascist as the right wingers. They're just fascist about different issues.

No. Fascism is by definition right wing. You cannot be a left-wing fascist any more than you can be a right-wing communist.However, both left and right can be totalitarian. Stalinism, for instance, was a totalitarian left-wing regime.

@Ken Beattie, I wanted to say no but you have a point there. If in the end it's just that the goals are different but the methods are the same... an example for a far left view would be "open the borders" while a far right view would be "bring up those walls". Now if left people exclude others, punish others for not having the same ideological terms, they kind of do build walls and eventually check enough boxes of the definition of fascism. Which by definition is right... well made point here. However if you look at the Soviet Union a totalitarian left country and a Nazi Germany you'll see huge differences in how they shaped society using similar/the same methods. But when you look at Cambodia for example it gets more blurry. And my personal experience: I always considered myself to be left, but today when I talk to left wingers they consider me conservative right, and when I talk to right wingers I'm seen as a liberal left. So maybe all that left or right is getting a bit out of hand?

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Can't believe how ill-informed the liberal's are, and how easily they believe everything they read on the internet is true. I haven't been on this site very long, but it's evident that if you disagree with my views, you down vote. You can't tolerate a different opinion. So who's the socialist's?

It's very amusing to me that you claim that liberal's [sic] are "ill-informed" while being the proud resident of a western liberal democracy.

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What Blondtrobl said is absolutely true though. Anyone here with a different opinion than the far left gets downvoted and barely Anyone discusses the points, you just want them to shut up. Yet the ones who are looking for discussions are called fascists. its insanely weird and, imo, wrong

BUZZ! False dichotomy. You don't have to be far left to despise the far right. The fact that many Republicans are so badly round the twist that they call the centre-right Democrats "far left" doesn't make it true.

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No, but it was the point of the reply that blames the Conservatives and likens them to the Nazis - not the first such post that's made that mistake.

What they have in common is working with corporations and blaming foreigners/"others" for the fallout. It works very well.

@Tams21 immigration will not solve the worker shortages because there is no shortage because of a lack of people but because of the situation we put ourselves into. And to just bring in more people in order to not have to solve the underlying issue always ends up in disaster. In my country there are so many immigrants and they are welcomed, but the worker shortage just keeps growing. Because the 2 real issues are a generational conflict: the young generation doesn't see why they should work their butts off if they can't afford a good living like their parents could do with it so they just work less or not at all and live off social security - this has to be fixed on a society level. But also an educational issue: our school systems are saved to death while simple jobs get ever more demanding. So people apply for jobs and companies desperately need them but the ones who apply don't have the skills.

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In my opinion that is a very simplistic view. One of the reasons the EU existed was to be able to get cheap labour from the eastern European countries to try and compete with the far East. Rather than paying a good wage and train the indigenous population, they would rather get cheap labour from abroad. It's a very contentious issue all round. But now there is less people who want to work the "harder" jobs, they have to pay more, and they don't like it.

The UK wasn't a founder member of the EU, so that's of questionable relevance. And besides, the EU started out as a coal and steel trading body. Schengen is a very recent development.

yes! We are all immigrants in the UK. It's just stupid to think otherwise.

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On that basis, the only indigenous people are in Africa - everyone else migrated from there. One has to draw a line somewhere. Just editing this before it gets banned - the fact that so many comments are downvoted and hidden suggests that this post and thread should be removed. All those disagreements are causing Pandas to be banned. Clearly there is political division, but it's ruining the site.

So would you argue white Americans are indigenous? Why not draw your arbitrary line yesterday and say everyone who was in the country this March was indigenous? Nah. If you invade a country and displace a settled populace, you ain't natives.

@intermezzono1, I get what you mean and I think there is a misunderstanding. Your truth is how you perceive the world, what you think is right. But that is only true for you. A lot of people confuse that with "the truth". I think that's what you are hinting at? Now we have 8 billion people and each of those persons has a different truth. And none of those billion people knows if they are right or wrong. That is why it is so important to talk with different minded people because by meeting somewhere in between you can get closer to "the truth" of which nobody knows where and what it is. Now a a lot of people say what they think that is expected from them because they are afraid of the consequences by going against the narrative. So speaking your truth is really challenging to to, it takes a lot of bravery. We have seen during covid how people with a different opinion were treated, we see it now with the war in Ukraine, it is tried to silence others instead of discussing with them.

Oh grow up. People during Covid weren't mistreated for having different opinion, they were criticised for spreading dangerous misinformation and you know it.

@Eric Tapril, you just proved my point. I didn't even specify which opinion yet you immediately assumed one and attacked. Your response is the principle that leads to critical thinkers in dictatorships being killed: assumptions. Brutally said: if you want to understand how this sh*t back then could happen: look in a mirror while you read your own sentence out loud.