New Neighbor Gets Blasted By Mormon Guests After Dinner As They Discovered That The Sauce He Made Contained Red Wine
Most of us have food and taste preferences and will not eat certain foods because we don’t find them delicious. Others choose a diet based on moral principles, like the vegan diet and there are people who have dietary restrictions because of their religion and, for example, don’t eat certain meat.
Turns out, Mormons aren’t allowed to consume alcohol in any form and this chef on Reddit didn’t know that, so when his guests found out his recipe included a sauce with red wine, they got really mad and now the man is torn as to whether he should have researched their lifestyle before making anything for them.
More info: Reddit
Man just moved into the neighborhood and already made a bad impression on his neighbors who are Mormon by serving them a dish containing alcohol
Image source: young shanahan (not the actual photo)
The Original Poster (OP) is a classically trained French chef who has spent over a decade in France, moving from Seattle, USA to train and cook in various restaurants. 5 years ago, he met the love of his life in the most romantic country in the world, but funnily enough, she is also American and was visiting the country on vacation.
At first the two lived in France, but as the couple decided to have children, the wife thought it would be best to come back to the States where her family is as she believed their child should be close to their grandparents.
For a long time the OP lived in France, but after deciding to create a family with his wife, they moved back to the US where her family lives
Image credits: DisplacedChef
The couple got help from neighbors with the move and the OP felt very grateful for that, so he decided to treat them to a dinner, seeing that he became a chef in France
Image credits: DisplacedChef
The chef agreed to move and they just returned to the wife’s hometown, Salt Lake City in Utah. It was a big move, but thankfully, they had helpful neighbors who were really friendly and came to give a hand so everything took a lot less time than originally planned.
During the process they chatted about the house and the neighborhood, promising a happy life there. The OP was so grateful that he wanted to repay his neighbors for their efforts by organizing a feast and putting his cooking skills to work.
Image credits: DisplacedChef
Not everyone came, but the OP cooked a luxurious 4-course dinner for those who did and the guests loved the entree so much, they wanted to know the recipe. The entree was Gigot qui Pleure, which is a lamb meat dish usually eaten with potatoes, and the chef served it with a pan sauce.
That sauce included red wine and when his guests saw that, they were horrified as they were all Mormons and they are not allowed to consume alcohol as it is considered a harmful substance, according to the Word of Wisdom, their sacred text. They accused the OP of being disrespectful towards their beliefs and accused him of trying to corrupt them with alcohol.
The guests loved one of the dishes so much that they asked for the recipe but were horrified to learn the sauce was made with red wine
Image credits: DisplacedChef
The OP’s wife was also upset as she wanted to have a friendly relationship with her neighbors but it started with such a scandal. Other people in OP’s life had different reactions.
Some of them thought it was the chef’s responsibility to do his research before taking up the task to cook for people belonging to a religious group. Others put the responsibility of warning the chef about their dietary preferences on the guests and compared having food restrictions to having allergies.
The Mormons were really mad and the OP’s wife was upset their relationship with their new neighbors had started like this
Image credits: DisplacedChef
Furthermore, the OP did ask the Mormons to inform him about anything that they couldn’t eat 3 days before the dinner, but it seems that the guests thought knowing Mormons don’t consume alcohol is common knowledge.
The OP mentioned in the comments that he has never met a Mormon knowingly so he didn’t have experience with them. Also, his wife isn’t Mormon, so he wouldn’t know what their customs are.
The OP simply didn’t know about this dietary restriction but some people in his life told him that he should have looked it up
Image credits: DisplacedChef
Image source: Jens Ohlig (not the actual photo)
As people in his life were telling him two different things, the chef took it to Reddit and asked people on the internet if he was to blame in this situation. And it seems that most people thought that the person who has specific things they don’t eat should be the one bringing it up.
Do you think the OP should have known Mormons don’t consume alcohol? Or that he should have looked it up? Or do you agree with other redditors who considered this to be an honest mistake that was made because the Mormons didn’t warn him about their customs? Voice your opinions in the comments!
However, people in the comments were of the opinion that it was the Mormons’ responsibility to warn the chef about what they can’t drink or eat
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Share on FacebookFor the people who say he should know that Mormons don't drink alcohol. Guess what the Mormons should know that French cuisine uses allot of alcohol. Not really a valid argument you can't expect everybody to know everyone's dietary choices. It's not like people wear signs announcing there dietary choices. It's up to the individual to vet the food they consume. Defiantly not to blame. An apology is all that should be required. The cornerstone of Christianity is forgiveness.
yup as a European I know as much about mormons as about some tribes in New Guinea. But everyone knows French cuisine is full of wine. they have dietary restrictions they should have said beforehand
Load More Replies...He ASKED three days ahead of the meal, if there were any dietary restrictions he needed to be aware of. None of them responded with any restrictions. Neither he, nor his wife, are Mormons and were aware of this. No, he didn't have an "obligation" to research Mormons and their beliefs. Give the guy a break! Definitely, NTA!! He was a good neighbor repaying a good deed with an excellent meal.
Having grown up in Utah surrounded by Mormons, I'm pretty sure that they only objected to the wine sauce because the other Mormon attendees knew about it. There's an old joke from deer camp - "How do you keep a Mormon from drinking all your beer over deer hunt? You bring another Mormon."
Load More Replies...I'd have recommended them to stay in France. Less crazy cults, better working situations, and their kids won't be shot at school by some lunatic one day. Seems like a 100% downgrade.
Being "close to family" isn't worth it for deciding to raise kids in a country where their future will be rigged with danger, debts and a government that does whatever it wants.
Load More Replies...NTA. Nobody is. This is a learning opportunity for all. The OP got an up-close and unexpected lesson WRT Mormons and some of their beliefs, and should be an indicator that he's not in France anymore. The neighbors found out that just because the majority of their community is Mormon, not everybody is, and a little tolerance for different cultures goes a long way. And OP's wife probably should have forewarned the OP about his brand new world. With luck and heartfelt apologies, this could be just a blip. OTOH, with bad luck and bruised egos, it might mean the start of insufferable neighborhood relations.
If I found out the neighborhood I just moved into had a bunch of Mormons I would be moving right back out. Good luck on them dealing with those religious extremists.
Most LDS are not the religious extremists you see in popular media (the ones wearing prairie dresses). Most LDS people are nice, normal people who are part of a different religion.
Load More Replies...It seems a case of non-communication. French chef (even is US-born) doesn't know anything about Mormons, Mormons don't know anything about French cooking. As one Reddit commenter said, apologize. Maybe offer non-culinary help (mowing their lawn, help with repairs, offer a lift somewhere, etc.) as a peace offering.
NTA. Honest mistake. As for trying to corrupt them... "Hey Rebecca, I think this French guy's spiked my gravy..,."
Huh, so i just learnt that vanilla extract has traces of alcohol in it. Came out of this a little wiser. Also, NTA. JUDGE HAS SPOKEN. :D
Vanilla extract has more than just traces. In the US, it is required to be at least 35% alcohol by law.
Load More Replies...I knew that Mormons didn't drink. But I didn't know they were not allowed to have it in food, particularly since it is only in there for flavoring. It seems a little extreme to expect people who are unfamiliar with the religion to know that. These neighbors are wrong to assume bad motives here.
It's a personal thing. I know some that make and eat beer biscuits or have cooking alcohol on hand. And I know some who won't drink anything that remotely resembles alcohol, like sparkling apple cider. They should have told the chef they don't consume alcohol. He was trying to be nice. NTA.
Load More Replies...NTA. People aren't obligated to know the rules of your cult. If you have dietary restrictions, it's your responsibility to make sure that the food you ar consuming doesn't have any prohibited products.
Odd to me that the neighbors would freak. Lifelong church member here, and we cook with wine and beer often. Once my sister-in-law thought it was hilarious that she got me to drink egg-nog flavored with rum. That was annoying because she was intentionally 'tricking' me into consuming alcohol, but it's not like my drinking it offended God or tainted my soul. Good on neighbors for showing up and helping out, but clarify your dietary preferences and lighten up.
No one is at fault here. I used to be Mormon and my mom's side of the family is fairly hardcore Mormon, so I get where the anger is coming from. OP didn't know and there wasn't a whole lot of alcohol anyways, neighbors felt that their religious principles were violated. Apologize and it will be fine. The majority of Mormons are big on repenting and forgiving. Good luck if they're unreasonable extremists though.
The Mormons are at fault. They didn't indicate they had a dietary restriction, and then acted horribly when someone made an honest mistake while having generous intentions. The whole thing could have been laughed off. Very unchristian behaviour by these religious nutjobs.
Load More Replies...I couldn't help laughing at this. A *lot* of the kids I grew up with in Idaho were Mormon, and they could be seriously hard drinkers. The LDS church and community are so riddled with odd restrictions and contradictions it is near impossible to wrap your head around most of them unless you grew up with it. (Not sorry I left them when I was 11 and never looked back).
If the neighbors lost their $#!~ about it, after he apologized and explained his ignorance, they were definitely TA. Honestly, it sounds like something that could be worked out with just talking over time. I love this mans defense of his wife (whom everyone apparently assumed was Mormon because she wanted to move there).
Every Mormon I know has at least one member of their family who is a full on alcoholic. The alcohol burns off enough for most Mormons to realize it's not enough to make the profit angry. What they don't seem to know is that it is neighborly to help people move regardless of religion.
You must not know a lot of Mormons. We don't care about making the prophet angry, we care about how we are treating our promises with God
Load More Replies...Mormon here- although I don't drink I still cook with wine and use real vanilla made from vodka. Most Mormons are not that rigid and lame.
Exactly! My family and I are Mormon and we eat beer-battered fish and cook with red wine occasionally.
Load More Replies...I’ve had similar experiences. If your diet doesn’t allow for you to eat certain things, you should vocalize that prior to the engagement. The alcohol cooks out anyway. When we gave my parents a wedding reception (my parents never got one) on their 50th wedding anniversary I guess we were supposed to know my cousin had recently become a vegetarian. We did not. There were plenty of vegetables and a very nice salad, but we had to hear him all evening say we should have more options. It wasn’t him we planned the menu around, but my dad and mom. Nobody else at the event was a vegetarian or vegan. Nobody.
In Brazil if there's free food, you eat. Allergies are very rare here. I don't even know actual vegans because the very few ones got back to meat, eggs and stuff. My Mormon friend which lives in SLC right now is saying he even has wine and cognac at home for cooking
As a Mormon living in Utah I’m sorry this happened. They didn’t need to make a big deal, it was a simple misunderstanding. My approach in a situation like this is that it’s definitely my responsibility to do the validating, not the other way around. We’re not all like this, I hope you can settle in and make some friends.
I don’t know anything about Mormons. But I do have dietary restrictions and it’s absolutely my responsibility to inform others of them but never to expect for others to bend to my needs. This neighborhood of people are buttholes.
The Mormon neighbors need to chill out. The amount of alcohol left in the sauce wasn't enough to be an issue. Also there are a lot of foods that break down into a type of alcohol in the body, some sugars for instance. So they probably do the same to themselves without knowing on a daily basis. Apparently forgot that Jesus drank wine on a regular basis. Take this wine as it represents my blood?
It was different back then because the wine was cleaner than the water and it wasn't as much wine-y as it is today than it's just grape juice
Load More Replies...Honestly, no way in HELL would I move fro. Europe to the US right now. And DEFINITELY not Utah. The wife said it was raising kids, then she is already indoctrinated because that is no place to raise well adjusted kids. If I was them and had the koney for that move, I would have suggested moving the parents TO Europe, but hard no on going to Utah. Its literally like living in a cult try to convert you. Definitely no place for kids or anyone with an alternative.
I would do a few hours manual labor in return for a 4 course gourmet meal any day of the week.
FOODS THAT CONTAIN ALCOHOL burger rolls – up to 1.28g per 100g (1.28% ABV) rye bread – up to 0.18g per 100g (0.18% ABV) banana (ripe) – up to 0.2g per 100g (0.2% ABV) Just leaving this here
Yeah, that's what puzzled me about the freak out. There are a *ton* of foods that contain at least some alcohol (because it's a natural product that will occur any time you allow yeast and sugar to interact). Really small amounts (like the amount in most sauces after it's been cooked or the amount in non-alcoholic beers/wines/etc.) aren't going to hurt anyone. If someone still doesn't want wine/beer used as flavoring, that's fine. But at least declare it as a dietary restriction.
Load More Replies...It is the responsibility of the people with the dietary restrictions to ask for what they need. End of. Why would you ever even assume people would know to ASK if there’s something Mormons don’t eat? Very self involved of the guests to assume their preference is common knowledge.
Never TA! Why TF would anyone bother to study a religion they are not part of? If they had diet restrictions it is up to them to inform you of them. Did the men bother to inform you how many of their wives they were bringing with them? Yeah, polygamy is still permitted...
The wife has lived in France since she was 21. I'm sure she didn't host a lot of grown up dinner parties before she moved. She can not be expected to know the intricacies of other peoples' religions. I have a 20 year old. You should see her face when I ask her any question that doesn't involve the pets. school, or her phone.
Any chef here should point out that any alcohol will have been boiled out so nobody’s dietary restrictions have been infringed here.
Geez. The wine cooks out. Oh well. Bullet dodged so they don't try to get you to join their cult. Lol
Not calling anyone an A., but the wife certainly must've known about Mormons and alcohol. As a French person, I could easily understand how you didn't know. But the wife took him out to Utah; it does fall on her to recognize some of the cultural differences. How does she move a French chef to Utah without mentioning, "Oh, wine is forbidden." But then again, the Mormons should know French like their wine.
If I was moving to Utah I would do a bit of reading up on Mormonism, so that I didn’t inadvertently offend anyone. It’s common sense really. Being a major religion in that region and with the wife coming from Utah, perhaps it didn’t occur to the guests that the hosts didn’t know their customs and beliefs.
More proof that religion is full of dumbasses. Wine is NOT alcohol, wine contains alcohol and cooking with wine the alcohol evaporates during due to its low boiling temperature. So not only are they stupid but they are missing out on great sauces
They're not stupid just because they have different life choices then you.
Load More Replies...I didn't know Mormons weren't supposed to drink alcohol either. Then again, I live in Massachusetts, and only 0.004% of the population here is Mormon.
This is the equivalent of moving to Israel and then being SHOCKED, shocked I say! That the nice people you know are Jewish (because they clearly said they are) got pissed you put bacon in the sauce. They thought they had clearly declared their dietary restrictions by informing him of their religion. Which, normally, would be sufficient. He stepped in it. He definitely stepped in it, and needs to apologize profusely while playing up the European ignorance aspect. Which will save him from being flat out shunned (I'm not kidding on the shunning. If he's got children, it could go very, very badly for them if his neighbors decide he's the type of person to make people break their religious convictions on purpose for funsies) They will most likely forgive the ignorance, but send missionaries over to correct it, which he'll have to fend off for a good 6 mos-year until they stop. Even mild interest in googling his new environment would have saved him from this
Why haven't the Grandparents considered moving to europe? I mean ... healthcare is more of an issue once you're old, and that, likely, is cheaper over here, no matter how sick and broken they are ... but anyway, the mormons should know about this, and this is NOT drinking alcohole, this is what I as an outspoken neverdrinker also accept and do - use alcohol in cooking, even exceeding wine in percentage and amount, and with less cooking time. So what? A little is left over. It's not that I'd offer such to a dry alcoholician, or to small children, so ... this is below relevance.
Sounds like entitled white snowflake syndrome to me. The guest were wrong to assume that their host knew anything about their dietary restrictions. The meal was cooked with wine, no one eating the meal got schnockered. If anyone owes anyone an apology it would be the religious snowflakes apologizing to their host.
Alcohol evaporates at 110 degrees. So I doubt anything you cook would have any alcohol left in it. I am LDS and cook with wine from time to time. Usually, recipes with wine are above my skill level!
It's not the wine in the cooking that's toxic. The complainants are the ones who are toxic. Don't tolerate toxic people in your life. Life is too short. I'm 70 and I can tell you, it goes so quick you can't imagine. (Footnote - I'm teetotal but cook with wine in my bourguignon. My bourguignon takes over 3 hours to cook and by then, there isn't enough alcohol in the sauce to intoxicate a gnat!). Choose better "friends".. and avoid idealogues!
The 'Peggies' from far cry 5 ? Just like them, they are only 1 step away from you being their enemy cos you don't believe the same as them...
This story doesn't ring true. He said he lived eighteen years in Seattle before moving to France. I've lived in Seattle, WA, Portland, OR and Los Angeles, CA, lots of Mormons in all those places, therefore not to know observant LDS people abstain from alcohol is odd. Also he says his wife, although not Mormon, is from Salt Lake City, she must know he cooks with wine regularly, so his explanation of her being "not able to put things together," makes no sense.
I had heard about Mormons not drinking, and tithing their salary and whatnot, but I had a bunch of Utah Mormon friends I corresponded with in the late 90's, and half of them drank like fish. So I guess there are Mormons, and then there are MORMONS, if you know what I mean. In this case, NAH. The new neighbors did a really nice thing by helping OP move in, and he attempted to repay the favor by cooking them a really nice meal. Guessing he will have apologized and hopefully once ruffled feathers are smoothed over, they can carry on and maintain a good relationship.
NOT disallowed by the LDS church. The alcohol is cooked off after a few minutes.
No one is really at fault here. It was an innocent mistake on both parts. Neither parties should feel guilty.
You don't have to be classically trained to know the alcohol in the wine is cooked off. Even I know that. If he doesn't that's worrying.
The adventists have even stricter dietary rules but would never have this reaction, The real problem here is the motivation - adventists try to advance the christian spirit beyond the bible's precept, while the mormons simply try to control the church members and themselves, fearing that even a mild stimulant would reveal their character and make them lose salvation, what shocked me about pretended overreacting christians was how nonchalantly they ate a dish called 'weeping lamb", when if not the image of Jesus, then at least the suffering of an innocent being should have kept them from this. I am miserably poor, i only have below 150 dollars per month provided by my parents (for as long as they would live), so when i found lamb steak in the fridge i couldn't afford to skip it. but i nearly cried afterwards.
How is wine in food an alcohol? There is not a trace of alcohol when you cook wine
This would be like inviting a bunch of Jewish people over and then being shocked they're upset you cooked with bacon grease, while you try to say you're a Southern chef, they should have expected it and said something beforehand. It is very widely known that Mormons don't do alcohol. It is one of the first associations people have when thinking about that religion. They likely assumed, from their clearly telling him they're Mormon, that he heard and understood they had religious dietary restrictions. He moved to friggin Utah. They make up over 60% of the population there. Again, this would be like moving to Israel, and not knowing anything about Judaism. They are most likely going to assume he did this maliciously, because who moves someplace without looking up anything at all?
I just do not believe he knew nothing about Mormons. Europe is lousy with them, all on their "missions"... and I read this story somewhere else and he said, "I PURPOSELY..." implying it wasn't an innocent mistake.
For the people who say he should know that Mormons don't drink alcohol. Guess what the Mormons should know that French cuisine uses allot of alcohol. Not really a valid argument you can't expect everybody to know everyone's dietary choices. It's not like people wear signs announcing there dietary choices. It's up to the individual to vet the food they consume. Defiantly not to blame. An apology is all that should be required. The cornerstone of Christianity is forgiveness.
yup as a European I know as much about mormons as about some tribes in New Guinea. But everyone knows French cuisine is full of wine. they have dietary restrictions they should have said beforehand
Load More Replies...He ASKED three days ahead of the meal, if there were any dietary restrictions he needed to be aware of. None of them responded with any restrictions. Neither he, nor his wife, are Mormons and were aware of this. No, he didn't have an "obligation" to research Mormons and their beliefs. Give the guy a break! Definitely, NTA!! He was a good neighbor repaying a good deed with an excellent meal.
Having grown up in Utah surrounded by Mormons, I'm pretty sure that they only objected to the wine sauce because the other Mormon attendees knew about it. There's an old joke from deer camp - "How do you keep a Mormon from drinking all your beer over deer hunt? You bring another Mormon."
Load More Replies...I'd have recommended them to stay in France. Less crazy cults, better working situations, and their kids won't be shot at school by some lunatic one day. Seems like a 100% downgrade.
Being "close to family" isn't worth it for deciding to raise kids in a country where their future will be rigged with danger, debts and a government that does whatever it wants.
Load More Replies...NTA. Nobody is. This is a learning opportunity for all. The OP got an up-close and unexpected lesson WRT Mormons and some of their beliefs, and should be an indicator that he's not in France anymore. The neighbors found out that just because the majority of their community is Mormon, not everybody is, and a little tolerance for different cultures goes a long way. And OP's wife probably should have forewarned the OP about his brand new world. With luck and heartfelt apologies, this could be just a blip. OTOH, with bad luck and bruised egos, it might mean the start of insufferable neighborhood relations.
If I found out the neighborhood I just moved into had a bunch of Mormons I would be moving right back out. Good luck on them dealing with those religious extremists.
Most LDS are not the religious extremists you see in popular media (the ones wearing prairie dresses). Most LDS people are nice, normal people who are part of a different religion.
Load More Replies...It seems a case of non-communication. French chef (even is US-born) doesn't know anything about Mormons, Mormons don't know anything about French cooking. As one Reddit commenter said, apologize. Maybe offer non-culinary help (mowing their lawn, help with repairs, offer a lift somewhere, etc.) as a peace offering.
NTA. Honest mistake. As for trying to corrupt them... "Hey Rebecca, I think this French guy's spiked my gravy..,."
Huh, so i just learnt that vanilla extract has traces of alcohol in it. Came out of this a little wiser. Also, NTA. JUDGE HAS SPOKEN. :D
Vanilla extract has more than just traces. In the US, it is required to be at least 35% alcohol by law.
Load More Replies...I knew that Mormons didn't drink. But I didn't know they were not allowed to have it in food, particularly since it is only in there for flavoring. It seems a little extreme to expect people who are unfamiliar with the religion to know that. These neighbors are wrong to assume bad motives here.
It's a personal thing. I know some that make and eat beer biscuits or have cooking alcohol on hand. And I know some who won't drink anything that remotely resembles alcohol, like sparkling apple cider. They should have told the chef they don't consume alcohol. He was trying to be nice. NTA.
Load More Replies...NTA. People aren't obligated to know the rules of your cult. If you have dietary restrictions, it's your responsibility to make sure that the food you ar consuming doesn't have any prohibited products.
Odd to me that the neighbors would freak. Lifelong church member here, and we cook with wine and beer often. Once my sister-in-law thought it was hilarious that she got me to drink egg-nog flavored with rum. That was annoying because she was intentionally 'tricking' me into consuming alcohol, but it's not like my drinking it offended God or tainted my soul. Good on neighbors for showing up and helping out, but clarify your dietary preferences and lighten up.
No one is at fault here. I used to be Mormon and my mom's side of the family is fairly hardcore Mormon, so I get where the anger is coming from. OP didn't know and there wasn't a whole lot of alcohol anyways, neighbors felt that their religious principles were violated. Apologize and it will be fine. The majority of Mormons are big on repenting and forgiving. Good luck if they're unreasonable extremists though.
The Mormons are at fault. They didn't indicate they had a dietary restriction, and then acted horribly when someone made an honest mistake while having generous intentions. The whole thing could have been laughed off. Very unchristian behaviour by these religious nutjobs.
Load More Replies...I couldn't help laughing at this. A *lot* of the kids I grew up with in Idaho were Mormon, and they could be seriously hard drinkers. The LDS church and community are so riddled with odd restrictions and contradictions it is near impossible to wrap your head around most of them unless you grew up with it. (Not sorry I left them when I was 11 and never looked back).
If the neighbors lost their $#!~ about it, after he apologized and explained his ignorance, they were definitely TA. Honestly, it sounds like something that could be worked out with just talking over time. I love this mans defense of his wife (whom everyone apparently assumed was Mormon because she wanted to move there).
Every Mormon I know has at least one member of their family who is a full on alcoholic. The alcohol burns off enough for most Mormons to realize it's not enough to make the profit angry. What they don't seem to know is that it is neighborly to help people move regardless of religion.
You must not know a lot of Mormons. We don't care about making the prophet angry, we care about how we are treating our promises with God
Load More Replies...Mormon here- although I don't drink I still cook with wine and use real vanilla made from vodka. Most Mormons are not that rigid and lame.
Exactly! My family and I are Mormon and we eat beer-battered fish and cook with red wine occasionally.
Load More Replies...I’ve had similar experiences. If your diet doesn’t allow for you to eat certain things, you should vocalize that prior to the engagement. The alcohol cooks out anyway. When we gave my parents a wedding reception (my parents never got one) on their 50th wedding anniversary I guess we were supposed to know my cousin had recently become a vegetarian. We did not. There were plenty of vegetables and a very nice salad, but we had to hear him all evening say we should have more options. It wasn’t him we planned the menu around, but my dad and mom. Nobody else at the event was a vegetarian or vegan. Nobody.
In Brazil if there's free food, you eat. Allergies are very rare here. I don't even know actual vegans because the very few ones got back to meat, eggs and stuff. My Mormon friend which lives in SLC right now is saying he even has wine and cognac at home for cooking
As a Mormon living in Utah I’m sorry this happened. They didn’t need to make a big deal, it was a simple misunderstanding. My approach in a situation like this is that it’s definitely my responsibility to do the validating, not the other way around. We’re not all like this, I hope you can settle in and make some friends.
I don’t know anything about Mormons. But I do have dietary restrictions and it’s absolutely my responsibility to inform others of them but never to expect for others to bend to my needs. This neighborhood of people are buttholes.
The Mormon neighbors need to chill out. The amount of alcohol left in the sauce wasn't enough to be an issue. Also there are a lot of foods that break down into a type of alcohol in the body, some sugars for instance. So they probably do the same to themselves without knowing on a daily basis. Apparently forgot that Jesus drank wine on a regular basis. Take this wine as it represents my blood?
It was different back then because the wine was cleaner than the water and it wasn't as much wine-y as it is today than it's just grape juice
Load More Replies...Honestly, no way in HELL would I move fro. Europe to the US right now. And DEFINITELY not Utah. The wife said it was raising kids, then she is already indoctrinated because that is no place to raise well adjusted kids. If I was them and had the koney for that move, I would have suggested moving the parents TO Europe, but hard no on going to Utah. Its literally like living in a cult try to convert you. Definitely no place for kids or anyone with an alternative.
I would do a few hours manual labor in return for a 4 course gourmet meal any day of the week.
FOODS THAT CONTAIN ALCOHOL burger rolls – up to 1.28g per 100g (1.28% ABV) rye bread – up to 0.18g per 100g (0.18% ABV) banana (ripe) – up to 0.2g per 100g (0.2% ABV) Just leaving this here
Yeah, that's what puzzled me about the freak out. There are a *ton* of foods that contain at least some alcohol (because it's a natural product that will occur any time you allow yeast and sugar to interact). Really small amounts (like the amount in most sauces after it's been cooked or the amount in non-alcoholic beers/wines/etc.) aren't going to hurt anyone. If someone still doesn't want wine/beer used as flavoring, that's fine. But at least declare it as a dietary restriction.
Load More Replies...It is the responsibility of the people with the dietary restrictions to ask for what they need. End of. Why would you ever even assume people would know to ASK if there’s something Mormons don’t eat? Very self involved of the guests to assume their preference is common knowledge.
Never TA! Why TF would anyone bother to study a religion they are not part of? If they had diet restrictions it is up to them to inform you of them. Did the men bother to inform you how many of their wives they were bringing with them? Yeah, polygamy is still permitted...
The wife has lived in France since she was 21. I'm sure she didn't host a lot of grown up dinner parties before she moved. She can not be expected to know the intricacies of other peoples' religions. I have a 20 year old. You should see her face when I ask her any question that doesn't involve the pets. school, or her phone.
Any chef here should point out that any alcohol will have been boiled out so nobody’s dietary restrictions have been infringed here.
Geez. The wine cooks out. Oh well. Bullet dodged so they don't try to get you to join their cult. Lol
Not calling anyone an A., but the wife certainly must've known about Mormons and alcohol. As a French person, I could easily understand how you didn't know. But the wife took him out to Utah; it does fall on her to recognize some of the cultural differences. How does she move a French chef to Utah without mentioning, "Oh, wine is forbidden." But then again, the Mormons should know French like their wine.
If I was moving to Utah I would do a bit of reading up on Mormonism, so that I didn’t inadvertently offend anyone. It’s common sense really. Being a major religion in that region and with the wife coming from Utah, perhaps it didn’t occur to the guests that the hosts didn’t know their customs and beliefs.
More proof that religion is full of dumbasses. Wine is NOT alcohol, wine contains alcohol and cooking with wine the alcohol evaporates during due to its low boiling temperature. So not only are they stupid but they are missing out on great sauces
They're not stupid just because they have different life choices then you.
Load More Replies...I didn't know Mormons weren't supposed to drink alcohol either. Then again, I live in Massachusetts, and only 0.004% of the population here is Mormon.
This is the equivalent of moving to Israel and then being SHOCKED, shocked I say! That the nice people you know are Jewish (because they clearly said they are) got pissed you put bacon in the sauce. They thought they had clearly declared their dietary restrictions by informing him of their religion. Which, normally, would be sufficient. He stepped in it. He definitely stepped in it, and needs to apologize profusely while playing up the European ignorance aspect. Which will save him from being flat out shunned (I'm not kidding on the shunning. If he's got children, it could go very, very badly for them if his neighbors decide he's the type of person to make people break their religious convictions on purpose for funsies) They will most likely forgive the ignorance, but send missionaries over to correct it, which he'll have to fend off for a good 6 mos-year until they stop. Even mild interest in googling his new environment would have saved him from this
Why haven't the Grandparents considered moving to europe? I mean ... healthcare is more of an issue once you're old, and that, likely, is cheaper over here, no matter how sick and broken they are ... but anyway, the mormons should know about this, and this is NOT drinking alcohole, this is what I as an outspoken neverdrinker also accept and do - use alcohol in cooking, even exceeding wine in percentage and amount, and with less cooking time. So what? A little is left over. It's not that I'd offer such to a dry alcoholician, or to small children, so ... this is below relevance.
Sounds like entitled white snowflake syndrome to me. The guest were wrong to assume that their host knew anything about their dietary restrictions. The meal was cooked with wine, no one eating the meal got schnockered. If anyone owes anyone an apology it would be the religious snowflakes apologizing to their host.
Alcohol evaporates at 110 degrees. So I doubt anything you cook would have any alcohol left in it. I am LDS and cook with wine from time to time. Usually, recipes with wine are above my skill level!
It's not the wine in the cooking that's toxic. The complainants are the ones who are toxic. Don't tolerate toxic people in your life. Life is too short. I'm 70 and I can tell you, it goes so quick you can't imagine. (Footnote - I'm teetotal but cook with wine in my bourguignon. My bourguignon takes over 3 hours to cook and by then, there isn't enough alcohol in the sauce to intoxicate a gnat!). Choose better "friends".. and avoid idealogues!
The 'Peggies' from far cry 5 ? Just like them, they are only 1 step away from you being their enemy cos you don't believe the same as them...
This story doesn't ring true. He said he lived eighteen years in Seattle before moving to France. I've lived in Seattle, WA, Portland, OR and Los Angeles, CA, lots of Mormons in all those places, therefore not to know observant LDS people abstain from alcohol is odd. Also he says his wife, although not Mormon, is from Salt Lake City, she must know he cooks with wine regularly, so his explanation of her being "not able to put things together," makes no sense.
I had heard about Mormons not drinking, and tithing their salary and whatnot, but I had a bunch of Utah Mormon friends I corresponded with in the late 90's, and half of them drank like fish. So I guess there are Mormons, and then there are MORMONS, if you know what I mean. In this case, NAH. The new neighbors did a really nice thing by helping OP move in, and he attempted to repay the favor by cooking them a really nice meal. Guessing he will have apologized and hopefully once ruffled feathers are smoothed over, they can carry on and maintain a good relationship.
NOT disallowed by the LDS church. The alcohol is cooked off after a few minutes.
No one is really at fault here. It was an innocent mistake on both parts. Neither parties should feel guilty.
You don't have to be classically trained to know the alcohol in the wine is cooked off. Even I know that. If he doesn't that's worrying.
The adventists have even stricter dietary rules but would never have this reaction, The real problem here is the motivation - adventists try to advance the christian spirit beyond the bible's precept, while the mormons simply try to control the church members and themselves, fearing that even a mild stimulant would reveal their character and make them lose salvation, what shocked me about pretended overreacting christians was how nonchalantly they ate a dish called 'weeping lamb", when if not the image of Jesus, then at least the suffering of an innocent being should have kept them from this. I am miserably poor, i only have below 150 dollars per month provided by my parents (for as long as they would live), so when i found lamb steak in the fridge i couldn't afford to skip it. but i nearly cried afterwards.
How is wine in food an alcohol? There is not a trace of alcohol when you cook wine
This would be like inviting a bunch of Jewish people over and then being shocked they're upset you cooked with bacon grease, while you try to say you're a Southern chef, they should have expected it and said something beforehand. It is very widely known that Mormons don't do alcohol. It is one of the first associations people have when thinking about that religion. They likely assumed, from their clearly telling him they're Mormon, that he heard and understood they had religious dietary restrictions. He moved to friggin Utah. They make up over 60% of the population there. Again, this would be like moving to Israel, and not knowing anything about Judaism. They are most likely going to assume he did this maliciously, because who moves someplace without looking up anything at all?
I just do not believe he knew nothing about Mormons. Europe is lousy with them, all on their "missions"... and I read this story somewhere else and he said, "I PURPOSELY..." implying it wasn't an innocent mistake.
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