Totally agree with you and WillemPenn. All her boyfriend did was ultimately make things worse and took control away from his girlfriend. I'd be worried I'd picked someone similar to my parents - a pattern that people frequently follow. I have several bothers and sisters and most have picked someone similar to our father who was quite toxic.

Except people who have been abused all of their lives often don't even know that standing up for themselves is an option. GF made it obvious she didn't want to take her glasses off and mom kept pushing. I think he respectfully supported his partner.

Renee Gauthier, re: people who have been abused all their lives, often not realising that standing up for themselves is an option: I totally agree. And that is why, my suggestion would be to talk to them privately about the abuse, and find out what *they* want to do. Do they want support in standing up for themselves? Or, is staying within the toxic family more important than being free of the abuse? I've known many people, of all ages & demographics, who prefer to be in a toxic situation, because the unknown of being "alone" appears to be far scarier to them. Which brings me back to my original point of: talk to them first, to find out what *they* want to do, *if* they want your support, and *how* they would want that support. We can't want good things for someone, more than they want it for themselves. :( It's c**p having to watch someone in a toxic situation, but in the end, all we can do is be there for them, should they chose to change it.

You are making this about yourself. That is your right. It might not be how everyone else sees it. Not all relationships may be as messed up as your examples obviously are. I guess when you are part of the problem, there's no where to go so yeah, accept one's fate. Or don't.

And things often have to get worse with abusive family before they can get better.

I agree. He needs to confirm with her what she wants - then decide if that choice is something he is willing to do. If not, he then needs to consider whether *he* is ok with living within that dynamic. eg if the GF is prioritising keeping her mum calm, over her own emotional wellbeing, and wants him to priortise the mum over her (the GF) wellbeing.... is he willing to do so? Is he willing to watch his GF choose to be abused by her mother? If that toxic relationship between the GF and her mum, is now toxic for him - *he* needs to do for himself, exactly what he's wanting the GF to do, and *he* needs to choose to leave both the GF & the toxic dynamic she's choosing to keep with her family. If he insists that she must change / leave too.... then he is literally doing exactly what the mum is doing, and trying to force the GF to agree with what he thinks is "best" for her.

Ideally, yes but she's clearly not able to do tell her mother to knock it off otherwise she would have done by now for her own sake. Instead she wants the boyfriend to apologise to restore the peace. He won't do that for her and is also refusing to see her parents anyway. Quite frankly neither parents nor boyfriend are actually helping the poor woman. Some families are toxic and I suspect little will change apology or not. They are probably best keeping as much distance as possible really. We're taught by society that our parents must be respected, obeyed, kept in contact with - they are hard cultural norms to go against. People do it though as sometimes it is necessary - just difficult making that step sometimes.

I am not condoning the mother's behavior or the GF's response. The BF asked for advice and as he is the only person whose behavior he has control over, that is the only person whose behavior he can address. I was not saying what path he should choose, but simply outlining an approach to rigorously and honestly evaluating one's true motives and relationship objectives. Yes the mother sounds extremely abusive (using psychological violence), and yes it sounds like the GF could stand some treatment for PTSD. But the BF has absolutely no control over those things. He can discuss, encourage, advise, but ultimately it is up to his GF to take the first step.

If he's not welcome back and his girlfriend accepts that, relationship is over. Good riddance to neurotic refuse.

But it isn't remotely the same as a random person attacking her. It is her parents. The parent/child relationship is often complicated and a partner getting stuck in the middle can make it worse. Male 'defending' female or vice versa - that part is irrelevant.

That is neither what I said, not what I meant. To be clear, I would say the same thing if the male-female roles were reversed. As for your incomplete hypothetical, it is a strawman and not germane. I am sorry you are so angry.

Manipulative abuse is the norm and most here seem to be not only accept but celebrate it. Walking away from neurotic, abusive conversations isn't just in the young man's best interest but ours.

oh, and Dave MD re: if some random person is attacking someone in the street.... I totally understand the desire to jump in and help. Did that before, until I learned a very very clear lesson. I assumed the person being chased down was the victim - til I found out they were the perpetrator, and those doing the chasing were actually doing it in defence of a little old couple that had just been assaulted. Which is why I now defer to the choice of calling the cops - because they have the authority to split it up, gain control, ask questions, and sort that c**p out. Wanting to help is a wonderful trait, and worthy of respect. How we undertake that desire to help is just as important as the desire itself. You seem like a good person with the right intentions, & I hope you maintain your desire to help others, despite the challenges that it can bring folks like us who want to help others. :)

re: saying that the boyfriend has 'no rights', I don't believe that was ever said. The question is more about *how* he choses his actions. ie confirming if / how she would like his support, vs assuming what is best for her (just as her toxic mother did). It's not about "not helping", but rather, respecting the person one wants to help, and confirming *how* to best support them. It's about "not assuming"; as opposed to "not helping". Help is always welcome - when it's welcome.

Dave MD, from what I can see, this is not a "male bashing" thing. From experience (and sadly, I've had a lot of it), assuming that someone wants to be defended, is the problem. Many (NOT all), are actually ok with their toxic relationships, for a whole range of deep-seeded reasons. By assuming that they're not, and therefore chosing to 'help' them (based on what we assume is "best" for them), can either (1) cause more problems for them within their chosen toxic relationship, or (2) have the "victim" turn on the "helper", as they "defend" their (toxic) relationship. Plus, we, as a 3rd party observer, never truly know what the dynamic is, *unless we ask first*. The best method I've found to deal with this, is to ask first, if the 'victim' needs help. If they indicate 'yes', then 100% step in. If they, for any reason, say 'no', its best to either leave them be, or, if extreme enough, call the cops (because the cops often have more legal strength to do something).

He is in the wrong he made an uncomfortable situation so much worse by interfering without permission now it escalates from her mother (who she cares enough about to continue a relationship with into adulthood)not wanting her to wear glasses for a pic to her being stuck in the middle of two headstrong people who she cares about butting egos. It was her experience with her mother that would have dictated if she continued to refuse to take her glasses off or not but he stepped in and decided to make that choice for her some people love each other despite their flaws and overbearing traits and him deciding he didn't want to tolerate it was for himself because she could have decided not to years ago.