Are you sure? I never post facts like that without checking first (unless it's _directly_ in my field of expertise, or something I've researched in depth before). Several sites say the optical groove and eye fields develop in week 3. Week 7 is when the development of the eye into the recognizable organ is begun, but the groundwork for that starts in week 3.

We must be reading different sites then coz the ones I have read say the dark spots for the eyes develop around 7 weeks as well as the retina, iris and the other important things that eyes need and around week eight the eye lids start to develop. https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy/your-baby/fetal-development-your-babys-eyes-and-sight_20004926, https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/pregnancy-week-by-week/in-depth/prenatal-care/art-20045302

Ah. Your sites count from (*edit*) last menstruation onward; mine use weeks from conception like the billboard.

Ahh yep, you are correct. Sorry and thank you for bringing that part to my attention.

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/002398.htm

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Not even true lmao

You know what's not even true? The idea that you have any kind of say whatsoever in what a woman does with her own body.

Ajj it has nothing to do with politics it’s about that person having control over there own body

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And you're not pro choice, you're pro death. And your second statement is true, but what does that have to do with killing an unborn baby, which is indeed alive?

It's NONE of your business unless you are thinking about your own unborn baby, inside your own womb. That's it, that's the only time you have any say in it whatsoever

Some use the term "gestation slaver".

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How does it serve me, idiot? Keep in mind that I'm a female. Rethink your bullshit. Being pro life is about saving the innocent. I don't gain anything from that other than knowing that I don't support people who kill their own children because they are too lazy to take responsibility for their actions.

Again you are not pro-life, you are pro-birth. You don't care about the woman's life, you don't care about the life of the child, as long as it is born. Stop pretending you are something you are not and that is definitely NOT pro-life.

It serves your petty, ridiculous ego to insert yourself into a life and a body that has nothing to do with you under the flimsy pretext that your dogmatic pedantry makes you a better person. It does not. Your insistence on infringing upon the autonomy of others reveals your total disdain for actual humanity.

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You are infringing on the unborn person's right to life (and bodily autonomy, as you rip them to pieces). A world where mothers are celebrated for killing their own children is a sick, sad world.

A bundle of cells isn't a person, and the woman surrounding it actually deserves advocacy, because she is. You don't know anything about how pregnancies are actually terminated, that is abundantly clear--and you are the only one who actually seems to love envisioning gore here. Abortions aren't parties, you would know that if you had any actual empathy.

You're the one that treats it like a party, you sick worthless piece of s**t. I literally just said that it's detrimental on someone's mental health to do it, but you don't give a s**t. You want to have power and you don't care who has to die for that be reality. That's the long and short of it. Oh, and it's funny how you call it a bundle of cells, because that's exactly what you are, as well as every person and every animal in existence. That's how life works. We are all made of cells. That literally does not help your argument in any way shape or form.

"Help my argument," huh? As though you were open to any ideas besides your own? I'm not under the illusion that you're reasonable.

Wow, what a master class in biology! Very impressive for a sock puppet.

It's so ironic how the baby killer tells me to grow a heart. You are so m***********g stupid that's it nearly unfathomable. Go ahead and kill your own babies, nobody can keep you from doing that, but stay the f**k away from everyone else's, you mentally insane maniac. You are an absolutely disgusting excuse for a human and I truly hope you never get pregnant.

There's only one maniac in this conversation. Stop projecting. I hope you find the help you need, from someone with a much bigger heart than yours.

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Yeah the baby murderer has a bigger heart than me. What a joke.

And a pro-aboryionist does have a bigger heart than a pro-birther because we care about the woman, the possible unwanted child and also the possible siblings, the man and many more. You only care about the foetus. So yeah, we have bigger hearts coz we care for ACTUAL people.

Shut up your obsessive f****t. Go kill babies on your own time. I don't want to hear about it you worthless c**t.

Real intelligent. Because you know you don't have a logical, factual argument you have to result to comments like that. Women who have abortions don't kill babies. they do have sbortions on their own time and most women don't go talking about their abortions either coz it is no one else's damn business, especially yours. So again your arguments are just plain uneducated and stupid.

You clearly don't care about educating yourself AT ALL. You world rather be ignorant and spout lies just to suit your narrative. Pro abortionists are not murdering babies coz 1. A foetus is not a baby. Dictionaries, science, medicine and law even say that a foetus is not considered a baby. Pretty much the only people calling them babies are pro-birthers, anti-women, religious and extremist groups etc. All of which are not reliable sources. Secondly you can't murder what isn't a person or you can't murder a person that relies on machines to live etc. Again these definitions are from reliable, scientific resources. You are making yourself look like an idiot coz you aren't doing proper research and just basing YOUR "facts" on emotion.

I genuinely do hope you find some way beyond the mind-boggling hate and rage that's consuming you. I can't help but pity you.

You know me so well, it's incredible. My whole life story. Stop, please, or I may weep.

Omg, hahaha you are seriously f****d in the head. Just because an individual chooses to have an abortion doesn't mean they want to force others to have an abortion so your comment is absolutely ridiculous. Maybe re-read what you wrote, coz it is extremely stupid and makes no sense. You want pro abortionists to stay away from people's babies but you won't stay out of the business of other women. So stupid.

Don't try to pretend you care about the woman in this situation, that's completely idiotic. If you cared at all about her health, mentally and physically, you would care about her choice, and her actual needs over the fictional needs of something that isn't even a person.

So YOU "weren't even a person" when you were at a younger stage of life? Idiot

There certainly was a point when I wasn't a person, genius. What are you trying to accomplish by shrieking in this space? Just venting on strangers? You are a shining example of love and kindness.

I wonder if there was a time when Everything_Fubar was a person.

Nope, I know I wasn't a person when I was in my mums uterus. I became a person when I was born.

You are an absolute hypocrite. It is detrimental to someone's mental health to be forced through an unwanted pregnancy. YOU don't give a s**t about the woman AT ALL. You don't care that a woman might die or suffer for the rest of her life coz that is a reality.

You're the one resorting to base name-calling and accusations with no basis in reality. What a sad excuse for morality you have.

I wish you had been a victim of the brutal procedure you advocate for. And if you're offended by that, then rethink what you're chanting for.

The fact that you wish pain on me says absolutely everything about who the monster here truly is.

Aeon Flux, I Wish in could upvote this comment so much more.

I appreciate you, Foxxy.

Your attempt to dig into my psyche is completely transparent, troll. Grow up, grow a brain, grow a heart.

If I was aborted then I wouldn't have been aware to even care. So it really doesn't matter if that was the choice my mum made. But she didn't, and here I am. So you are happy to advocate for abortion if a person disagrees with you. How ironic.

Oh wow. Excellent point, Foxxy. The supposedly precious unborn child is so obviously just a p**n for this sad person's grandstanding.

A foetus is NOT a person. Go read a dictionary. A person is a human being regarded as an individual. A foetus is not an individual coz it needs the woman to develop, survive and thrive. It also has no legal rights in almost any sense and it has no identity. I AM a person, breathing, developed, with feelings, I have an identity, family, friends etc. My life is much more important than a foetus with none of those things.

definition of fetus: "the unborn offspring of a mammal, particularly an unborn human baby more than eight weeks after conception" good job playing yourself, dumbass

Human being and person are not the same by definition and nice try by adding "baby" but the actual definition does not say baby. This is copied and pasted WORD for WORD "an unborn or unhatched offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human more than eight weeks after conception." I never said a foetus wasn't a human being. Dumbass.

You literally copied the definition and took out the word baby and acted like I wouldn't notice. You're so clearly wrong when it comes to the point that you're trying to play mind games.

Bahaha, I never took out the word baby. Try again. https://www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/foetus, https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fetus, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fetus, https://www.thefreedictionary.com/foetus, https://www.medicinenet.com/stages_of_pregnancy_pictures_slideshow/article.htm.

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/fetus#:~:text=fetus-,noun,after%20fertilization%20compare%20embryo%20(1), https://www.biologyonline.com/dictionary/fetus, https://www.britannica.com/science/fetus

You are literally so f*****g stupid you can literally look it up on f*****g google, that's where I looked it up. Look at it and see for yourself with your own god damn ugly face what it f*****g says. It's really not that hard to check for yourself before inaccurately accusing me of lying you dumbass bitch.

I did check Google. I have even put up links for evidence just above. So sorry but you are incorrect.

You are seriously, woefully ignorant if you think all pregnancies are the result of laziness, and that all births are good for the child and the mother. You may be a woman, but you are NOT on the team and you are, in fact, a sexist idiot. You have absolutely NO idea what the circumstances are in every single pregnancy, and you have no say in it. You think you care about life? What about the life of the woman who bears the child? If it came down to her or the baby, then what? Is her life less important? Don't answer because it isn't up. To. You.

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Actually 99% of abortions are a result of consensual sex. So you know dang well the reason for the pregnancy.

How many abortions are the result of the pregnancy being unsafe for the woman? How many are the result of being unsafe for the fetus? How many unwanted pregnancies result in an unwanted child, an abused child, an impoverished child? How many women do you think an anti-abortion law will stop from going to find an abortion elsewhere anyway, possibly risking their lives? You know dang well it's not up to anyone but the woman who chooses what she does with her own body

Keep on spouting transparently false statistics like that, it really adds to the weight of your argument. Women can be misogynists, and you are an excellent example of one.

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All you want is power and pride, so you dismember the innocent and call it feminism. You don't care about the woman. You don't care about the fact that she will have post abortive depression. You don't care that her mental health will turn violently ugly with regret and grief. Shut up and get off of your power trip already.

I don't attempt to exert my will over others, and you do. Power and pride. Maybe you'll get over your own ego one day and care about other living, breathing people, but you certainly aren't capable of that right now.

Actually do your research, most women who have had abortions do not regret their decision. Far, far, far more women suffer with post natal depression, resentment and regret after birth whether the child was wanted or not. If anyone is on a power trip, it's you. And news flash, most abortions the foetus is not dismembered. Educate yourself. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953619306999?via%3Dihub

F*ck off, fubar.

No, I don't think I will.

You are one of the MOST pathetic beings on the planet. Please have a LONG HARD THINK about what you did to end up here, in this situation, defending forced birth.

Think long and hard about how you could be so pathetic and cowardly to think that ripping a defenseless baby apart limb by limb is justifiable.

please tell me how the sweet 'n' sour kentucky fried f*ck abortion of a clump of cells that is literally just an as*hole is the same as king solomoning a baby

You are a clump of cells. That doesn't make it okay to kill you either. Find an argument that makes sense.

yeah but can a fetus breathe spot-the-d...ae-png.jpg

And 1 in 100 pregnancies is due to contraception failure. A concept you don't seem to understand.

You don't care about actual human beings. You just care about control.

Everything_Fubar, I hope you never kill an ant, fly, mosquito, or ever take anti parasitic medication coz you are murdering living beings. Also many medications use living beings so I hope you don't take any of them either. A foetus is more like a parasite coz it needs a host to thrive and survive. Not sure about you but I don't want a parasite growing inside me. I find it interesting that you always ignore the fact that turning life support off someone that can't survive without help, is not murder. But a foetus that can't survive without help and relying on someone else's life, is murder. Use your noggin.

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Are you really trying to compare a human life to a mosquito?

@CowboyHank, Everything_Fubar was talking about killing living beings and news flash a mosquito is a living being.

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I saw Everything_Fubar mention living babies. And I think you knew what they meant. Everything you mentioned is a pest. An annoyance that you swat away. I see why you're pro choice if that is how you feel about a baby. And please don't use the argument that it's not alive unless it can live indepently from it's mother. Because humans can't really survive on their own until around 10 years old anyway.

Read the comments again because Everything_Fubar DID write living beings in one of their comments. And news flash an unwanted foetus IS pretty much a pest to someone who doesn't want the pregnancy. Kids under 10 are still different to a foetus as they are a developed, living and breathing PERSON, a foetus is none of those. And a child can live independently from its mother, it can live with the father, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc and they don't rely on their life to be able to develop or breathe etc. Pregnancies are not without risks and can cause severe damage, even death. A guardian does not have those risks. A living person is not the same as a foetus so stop trying to compare the two. It's literally like comparing apples to oranges.

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If I concede that abortion is morally wrong except in cases of rape, incest, or the life of the mother is at risk, would you be satisfied with that? I doubt it because I'll bet you also feel like it's ok to abort a baby that will be an inconvenience. And you made an excellent point about kids being able to live with father's, aunt's, uncle's, grandparents, even people willing to adopt them. A common argument with pro choicers is "no one takes care of the baby after it's born." Bullsht. Countless government agencies, individual charities, and many many private person's are desperately trying to provide help. And it's not comparing apples to oranges. It's a human life. Call it a fetus, zygote, clump of cells, whatever. It's human and it's precious. And people like you compare it to a mosquito? Disgusting.

And an unwanted child is not just an "inconvenience" it is literally life changing for the woman and child. And can risk the life of the woman. A woman having an abortion doesn't effect your life in any way but your belief impacts countless lives in HUGE ways. Forcing a woman to keep an unwanted pregnancy also creates the risk of the woman resenting, neglecting and or abusing the child. And reality check a mosquito IS a living being just like a foetus. That's a fact, they are not the same species, animal or whatever but they are both living beings. That is the ONLY comparison I was making about the two. And it is comparing apples to oranges whether you like it or not. Medically, biologically and scientifically.

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The Rwandan Genocide didn't affect me but I still didn't want it to happen. Wildfires in Australia didn't affect me but I still didn't want it to happen. Do you see how that works? I don't need to know my fellow humans to care for them. I was about 12 years old when I first learned that other people are pro-choice. Blew me away. I knew abortion was this evil thing that was there but it completely shocked me that someone could so easily discard a human life. That's what it is. Abortion destroys human cells. The amount of cells doesn't matter. It's the ratio. No, I wouldn't care if someone kills 32 of my cells. But 100%? And you knew what Everything_Fubar was saying. It's a human being. Not a mosquito. And an apple can't laugh, cry, have emotions, feel pain. Neither can an orange. I will never understand people like you. Your willingness to take a human life, scares me.

Oh and turning someone's life support off kills someone 100%, yet that is completely legal, not murder. An unborn foetus relies on a woman's body to thrive and survive and someone on life support is being kept alive by machines. At least the person on life support isn't physically impacting a person's life, unlike a foetus which can cause many problems for the woman, including death.

You can care about things that don't effect you, but it's not your right to enforce your beliefs onto someone when it has no impact on you or your life. Your willingness to discount a woman's life scares me. You are not pro-life coz you have no care for the woman's life AT ALL. She is a developed person with feelings and a life she is living. Your belief kills hundreds of thousands of women annually either from child birth or from backyard abortions. Tell me why a foetus with no awareness, no feelings etc life is worth more than the woman's life. Heres a hypothetical, if you had a choice between your partners life or your unborn foetuses life, which would you choose? You only want to control women, you don't care about women, you don't care what happens to an unwanted child as long as it is born. You may act like you care, but your words say otherwise.

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Sounds like you know everything about me. Sounds like you know what organizations I volunteer with and donate to. I already stated that I concede abortions are sometimes necessary in some cases. (rape, incest, and the life of the mother at risk) But that's not why a majority of abortions take place. Most often it's just done out of sheer convenience. That, to me, makes it look like people are using abortion as birth control. It's not about controlling women. For me, it's about the preservation of life. And pulling someone off of life support leads to natural death. You would consider abortion a natural death?

Volunteering and donating is not enough, especially with the amount of children awaiting adoption. Your contribution is like a drop in the ocean. Doesn't change the fact that there are too many orphans and not enough people to adopt them. Less than 10% of orphans are adopted worldwide annually. According to UNICEF there are currently 153 MILLION children needing homes. 1 in 100 pregnancies are due to contraception failure, so abortion is a back up plan. Do your research and you will discover that rarely do women get abortions just w***y nilly. It takes time and many emotions to make that decision. And is one of the hardest decisions they have made. You don't care about the preservation of the woman's life. Again if you had to choose between the life of your partner or the life of your unborn, what decision would you make? The life of the mother is ALWAYS at risk, as I already mentioned, over 300,000 women die annually during childbirth/pregnancy and millions more hsve severr complicat

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Finally, to answer your question. If there were ever a situation where I had to decide between the life of my wife and unborn baby, I would choose my baby. I have spoken to my wife about this exact thing. I know how proud she would be to know her own life was sacrificed so that her baby may live. If the situation were somehow reversed, I truly hope that she would make the same decision. I would not hesitate, even for a moment, to lay down my life for my own child. I appreciate the debate and your respectful tone.