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Close your eyes and think about some of your favorite book and film characters, Pandas. What are they? Heroes, villains, antiheroes… or something else entirely? The beauty of enjoying entertainment through reading, art, and visual media is that you delight in the story from your own unique perspective. No one else sees and feels the story and characters quite like you do. The words and visuals resonate with you in a distinctive way.
However, some people firmly believe that there is an overwhelmingly ‘right way’ to interpret popular stories and characters. The crowd over on r/AskReddit feels that people generally tend to idolize way too many fictional characters without ‘getting’ the entire ‘point’ of their stories. From The Joker to Light Yagami and beyond, these redditors think that these characters deserve no sympathy at all.
Scroll down to see which fictional characters they singled out and why they believe nobody should idolize them. Do you agree or disagree with their opinions, Pandas? Let us know in the comments! And if you feel like opening up to all the other readers, why not tell us who you look up to for inspiration in media and why?
This post may include affiliate links.
#1
Not a character, but as a South American, it is disgusting how drug lords are being venerated due to some media about them that have come out in recent times, especially the series Narcos.
There are people tattooing the image of Pablo Escobar! A genocina son of a b***h who is responsible for the murder of thousands of people, created a civil war for pure economic interest and only now is Colombia resurrecting the s**t that this man did. It's like getting a tattoo of Hitler.
Bored Panda got in touch with Bram Stoker Award-winning editor Doug Murano, the founder of Bad Hand Books, for a chat about villains and antiheroes. We were interested to hear his thoughts about why the audience might want to root for the 'bad guys.'
"I think we're built to relate to the thoughts and emotions villains are allowed to express, but heroes are not. We've all had times in our lives when we've felt jealousy, rage, the need for vengeance—feelings that often drive the actions of villains," he told us.
"Part of the value of indulging in fictional worlds is to give voice to the feelings we can't in real life. That's a long way to say that I think it's healthy to root for the villain sometimes. Don't feel bad about enjoying it," editor Doug said that we shouldn't feel guilty about this.
RELATED:
#2
Your man Grey from the Fifty Shades books.
**Disclaimer** My flatmate had all 3 books and I read them as a method of procrastination from uni work. I also cleaned out all the kitchen cupboards, so that shows the frame of mind I was in.
Why is he seen as a wonderful, sexy, man of your dreams? He's a narcissistic misogynistic d******d. He targeted a young naive girl and groomed her for his own enjoyment.
Luke Branwen 2 years ago
If Grey was a fat slob living in a trailer, "50 Shades" would be seen as a crime novel instead of romance.
#3
Scrolled for ages and couldn’t see anyone saying Ross and Rachel from Friends, although I guess maybe it’s fair to say that the “point” of their story wasn’t that they were absolutely toxic for each other. I remember a time in the late nineties to mid noughties when every dating profile and every MySpace page had some variation of “I’m just a Rachel Green looking for her Ross Geller”. Despite the fact that Ross was a gas-lighting, possessive, jealous wanker and Rachel was a needy, stuck-up, indecisive user of people and the only one who had the balls to tell her so was Hugh Laurie in a cameo. And she clearly didn’t listen because she just kept getting worse and worse after that.
Bored Panda also wanted to hear about the hallmarks of a truly great villain. Here's what Doug, from Bad Hand Books, had to say about this: "Good villains have a reason for doing what they do—and they feel absolutely justified in taking those actions. That doesn't mean they need a sophisticated backstory, but a good villain is the hero of their own story," he said.
"And the best villains have motivations we can partially sympathize with. Think about Pamela Voorhees, who picks off camp counselors to avenge the death of her son. Most of us cringe at her methods, but can relate to her anger."
Meanwhile, when it comes to the difference between villains and antiheroes, Doug sees it in terms of selfishness vs. selflessness. "A villain's goals are centered on satisfying their own emotional needs, whereas an antihero will do things that are characteristically villainous for the greater good," he told Bored Panda.
#4
Joker. And all those cringe posts on Facebook that's just pictures of him saying s**t like "I got your back in the darkest times" my dude he doesn't have anyone's back that's the f*****g joker
Mia Black 2 years ago
I don't like the way He is Idealized and hyped. I think people liked the way the actors showed the role and i respect their work but i can not stand, when people party a person who is cruel on purpose. It downplays violence, even if the characters are fictional. Since they are portrayed by real people, the line between fiction and reality becomes smaller, and I'm concerned that people who aren't good at reflecting might get the wrong perception.
#5
Jerry from Tom and Jerry. He's a f****r, Tom is just defending his house
Zedrapazia 2 years ago
Mice are cute and nice, until you have them in your house. Then you'll thank the s**t out of your cat for devouring their destructive asses
Let’s be frank for a moment: there will always be disagreements on how to interpret certain story elements, character arcs, and what the writer/artist intended to put on the screen and on the page. It’s like asking who’s cooler, Batman, Superman, or Spiderman.
However, by getting involved in these discussions, setting up our arguments, and countering others’ opinions, we get a bit closer to the truth about what makes characters stand out, what types of stories and tropes we prefer, and why.
You’ll hardly ever come to a satisfactory conclusion in arguments over fiction (especially if you’re on the internet!), but sharing your ideas and interpretations can help you get your own thoughts in order. Things get very interesting once you move past the, ‘I don’t like character X/I think that opinion Y is wrong, and I’m the only one who’s right!’ phase.
#7
Joker & Harley are still idolized as an example of crazy passionate love despite it being clearly established as an abusive relationship. It’s a shame the movies had to cut out most of the really bad Joker abuse because then maybe the point will be driven home
Luke Branwen 2 years ago
I don't follow DC stuff at all, but lately I often see Harley dating Poison Ivy and I thing that's hell of an upgrade.
#9
Archie Bunker - I hear boomers admiring that he didn't care if he offended people as if that's a good thing. In reality, the character was specifically written as a satire of the small-minded middle class bigots who think they're so clever when they know so little.
While a quick scroll through social media will show you a ton of extremely cringy Joker memes that should be avoided like the plague, it’d be unfair to write off the character entirely. Yes, he’s pretty much a violent psychopath who (depending on which version of the Joker you have in mind) gets up to everything from silly pranks to some truly dark and mind-breaking stuff that nobody should ever fall victim to.
He’s definitely not a hero and shouldn’t be idolized. He’s also not just a psychopath. It’s not wrong to feel at least some sympathy for villains and antiheroes sometimes. Some aspects of their character and their motivations might make them relatable. Things aren’t just black or white in modern and postmodern media unless you’re telling a very traditional Good vs. Evil story. Gotham, we feel, has enough space for some more nuance and shades of grey. If a character is written well and is more than just two-dimensional, it's normal to at least understand where they're coming from, even if you're not fully on their side.
In the opinion of yours truly, what makes a villain compelling is that their goals and motivations resonate with us. We see a part of ourselves in them and their actions. We’re forced to come to the stark conclusion that even though we want the heroes to win and save the day, that victory isn’t as morally clear-cut as it might initially seem.
#10
Walter White. You're not supposed to root for the murderous, ruthless, self-centred, ego maniac drug lord by the end of the series. People do.
#11
I'm ready for the downvotes, but my honest opinion is Snape. Dude was a jealous, racist, and condescending a*****e. Dude was straight up bullied and we get his perspective so we feel sympathy for him, but the dude was straight up in the wizarding world's kkk. Somehow he's loved because he loved Harry's mom, switched sides, and was a double agent. I get the whole redemption arc but he was still acting selfishly and I don't get why people think he's such a hero. He's a complete a*s to Harry for no reason other than 'your father was an a*s to me so f**k you.'
The guy literally walked over his unrequited love's HUSBANDS dead body to sob over her death. Could you imagine if you knew a guy in high school who joined the kkk, had the most incel crush on you, and was so obsessed with you that he cradled your dead body after walking over your husband's dead body?
Monday 2 years ago
We should note though that said "unrequited love's husband" was the bully that tormented him less than 5 years ago. I would totally step over my bully's corpse without a second thought. And although Snape was very much an a*****e the whole "wizard KKK" thing happened when he was like 20. Young people are often dumb, we don't judge them solely for the c**p they did in the past. Was Snape a hero though? Absolutely not. That's the point. He's just a dude who ended up doing the right thing after doing a bunch of wrong things.
#12
Holden Caulfield, The Catcher in the Rye. He wasn’t being refreshingly rebellious, he was crying out for help. He was probably mentally ill, and definitely emotionally scarred by his brother’s death and the unhealthy way his parents handled that tragedy.
Adam Belaire 2 years ago
"I don't buy them a copy of Catcher in the Rye and then lecture them with some seventh grade interpretation of how Holden Caulfield is some profound, intellectual. He wasn't! He was a spoiled brat!" -Glen Quagmire, Family Guy. S8 Ep 7 "Jerome Is the New Black"
Real life is messy, chaotic, and complicated. People are incredibly rarely purely good or evil. Stories and characters that manage to capture a fraction of that while keeping the audience entertained can go very far.
You could argue that just as much as fictional characters shouldn’t be idolized, they also shouldn’t be immediately demonized. Besides, it’s often hard to know what the ‘point’ of a particular story is when we don’t have access to the unfiltered thoughts and intentions of the creators. Moreover, once you finish a story and let it loose upon the world, it’s no longer just your creation. Everyone who reads or watches it adds to the worldbuilding whenever they share their interpretations.
So, yes, to put it bluntly, evil characters obviously shouldn’t be idolized… but perhaps the reason they are is that they’re written so well that they work like mirrors, reflecting a part of the audience and society back at them. A part that may be uncomfortable for many to even think about.
Psychologist Lee Chambers told Bored Panda during an earlier interview that part of the reason why people enjoy watching entertainment that covers the darker side of humanity is due to our evolutionary journey as human beings.
“For the majority of our existence, we were prey and always hyperaware of threats to our safety, which created a negativity bias that we are drawn towards. But in today's safe and often sanitized world, we are rarely threatened significantly, and the ability to explore evil, frightening and gruesome entertainment is one of the few ways we can visit this part of humanity while remaining safe and comfortable,” he shared his thoughts about forms of entertainment like the spectacularly popular true crime genre.
“There is a level of novelty to it, it removes boredom quickly, and it helps us to discover our emotional limits while understanding the minds of those who go beyond social norms and potentially gaining knowledge of how we might avoid being victims ourselves. They also offer closure, with many stories ending with the mystery being solved, and the criminal being brought to a level of justice.”
#13
Scarface. So many wannabe gangstas and rappers with Scarface shirts and posters.
#14
Homelander from The Boys comes to mind
What I am referring to is that there was an article that was published about some fans who genuinely thought Homelander, who is supposed to represent white supremacy ideology and toxic masculinity ideals, was actually a good guy in the show. It took them until the third season to find out that he was actually the bad guy and people were big mad about it. It blew my mind that they went through two seasons and thought Homelander was a good guy......
So that was who came to mind first with this prompt.
Bernd Herbert 2 years ago
dude blew up a commercial airplane in season 1 and people still thought he was the good guy?? WTF?
#15
Vito Corleone, and by extension, Michael.
Vito had to flee his home as a little boy to escape a mafia boss who wanted him dead. He gets to the US, but because of discrimination against Italians and another mafia boss stealing his job for his nephew, he's forced into crime so he can take care of his family. He joins The Life, and he's good at it.
But because of that life:
- Sonny is murdered
- Michael goes into exile
- Michael's first wife is murdered
- Fredo has a breakdown
- Connie goes off the rails after her abusive husband is killed
- Michael's second wife leaves him
- Fredo betrays Michael
- Michael has him killed
- Michael's daughter is killed
- Michael's son hates him
Even more tragic? MICHAEL ALMOST ESCAPED THAT LIFE.
EDIT: 90% of y'all are agreeing with me and the other 10% are proving my point.
Gabriele Alfredo Pini 2 years ago
I hate the Mafia: in Italy we have so much controls and laws because of those wankers!
"It [the story] can take us on an emotional rollercoaster, have us trying to solve the puzzle and test our fear in a controlled way. The permission to explore evil is powerful, as we so rarely get the chance elsewhere, and in itself, it is healthy and normal in moderation," the psychologist told Bored Panda.
"The challenge we face is the fact that consuming too much of this can desensitize us, and cause us to become less empathetic to the suffering of others, more fearful of our own environment, and potentially be more likely to use aggression ourselves. It can also cause us to be triggered by our own previous adverse experiences, make it harder to manage our own emotional balance, and increase our stress levels, so moderating our consumption is something we should have front of mind, even when we get embroiled in the latest series that is pulling us in."
#16
Patrick Bateman.
The memes today are undermining how brutally narcissistic, inhuman and soulless he really is. The novel made me puke every few pages.
He himself admitted the only emotions he was left with was greed and disgust.
He is among the peak consumerist in a consumerism driven society.
Hex Gurls 2 years ago
which is exactly the point. he’s a satire of businessmen who are the ideology of consumerism. i almost vomited when i looked him up when watching the movie for the first time and there were so many articles titled, ‘how to be patrick bateman’. he has zero redeeming qualities what the f**k is there to emulate if u don’t want to be a sociopath
#17
Not actually fictional but- The Wolf of Wall Street
Ines Olabarria-Smith 2 years ago
Never seen that film after reading an interview of the daughter of the man it was based on. Her life was ruined by his father’s doing and she hated the idea of him being celebrated.
#18
Ferris Bueller. Looking back he just seems like a lazy manipulative teenager who bullies his suicidal friend into riding and eventually crashing an expensive car, not to mention harassing his principal who was a jerk but was just trying to do his job.
Mistiekim 2 years ago
I wouldn’t call him lazy - I mean the kid set up elaborate schemes in order to get out of school. And Rooney was absolutely determined to catch him. He could’ve stayed at the school and nothing would’ve happened to him other than being mad. He’s the one that went out to track Ferris.
#19
I teach high school computer science. My first year was the year Rick and Morty came out. Every one of my students was convinced that they were Rick. I’m so glad they’ve moved to all being weebs now. The Rick gang was insufferable
#20
Light Yagami.
So many people forget that Death Note basically shredded whatever redeeming qualities he had for the sole purpose of spreading the message that power corrupts/absolute power corrupts absolutely. The only thing that anyone really seems to talk about regarding his character is that he’s awesome, handsome, and polite, and even the former was a facade.
Monday 2 years ago
Same with L on the flipside. He's childish, selfish and willing to sacrifice people if it means getting the information he needs on whoever he's hunting. They were lovely counterparts to watch going up against each other, but the real heroes were the poor cops just doing their jobs.
#21
Alex from A Clockwork Orange.
The point of the book (to my reading) was that you can't force natures hand. All the rehabilitation in the world couldn't make Alex grow up, only Alex could. And he did. In the end, it was not a glorification of violence.
#22
The Punisher
Nicole Weymann 2 years ago (edited)
Vigilantism in general is not the heroic deed it's made out to be. The image of heroes single handedly cleaning up may be nice in comics, but in real life for every attempted Batman/Robin Hood there's a thousand Judge Dredds/lynch mob members whose actions can best be summarized by "Oops! But how was I to know that he was innocent?".
#23
Greg heffley. Guys a little sh*thead.
Strawberry Pizza 2 years ago
In the first Movie Diary, Jeff Kinney actually addresses this. Greg was meant to be a bit of a jerk - it was intentional.
#24
Phantom of the Opera. Rejection does not give a person a free pass to manipulate someone into loving him or her. Don't get me wrong; I don't hate him- in fact, I sympathize with him because no one likes rejection and abuse, of course. Boy, is the musical character a hero compared to his portrayal in the book, though, and the character is actually far darker than any adaptation may be able to portray accurately! (Not to knock on Lord Andrew Lloyd Weber, of course; I'm just stating that the Phantom is far darker than I think *anyone* would be able to capture completely.)
ETA: 1.5K karma??? Oh, boy, I had no idea Lord Webber's work was *that* controversial as compared to the book, but I did know the real Phantom was a lot darker....
#26
Tyler Durden, hands down.
Wintermute 2 years ago
This is an excellent example of the hero you deserve rather than the hero you need. Sort of fighting fire with fire, except the fire is toxic culture. The point of Tyler Durdin is that he's an antihero, not meant to be easy to categorize as good or bad - the false duality of lazy writers.
#27
Michael Scott? I mean, I know people don't "idolize" him. But overall he's so damn likeable that we all like him, and probably all think he's actually a caring, loving boss.
But in reality he throws his people under the bus quite a bit and always puts himself first.
That said, I can't help but love the guy.
#29
Love Quinn from You.
I can’t believe how many people worship her character. I have to tell myself that the people praising her actually KNOW she’s an insane, psychopathic, manipulative murderer, and their admiration of her is actually rooted in how well developed her character is and how refreshing it is to see a female villain instead of just another innocent victim. I have to tell myself that to sleep at night. Because there’s no way people actually admire HER, as in who her character was. There’s no way they can justify her actions or want to be anything like her. Right? Lol.
#30
Thomas Shelby Peaky Blinders.
What do you think ?
Casey McAlister 2 years ago
I'd like to note that liking a character is not like liking a person. You like them not because they are great people, you like them because they are interesting to observe. And characters with questionable morality tend to be the most interesting ones,cause you can't be 100% sure what they are going to do in one or another situation.
tuzdayschild 2 years ago
It's possible to like a great villain without wanting to be that villain. How interesting woud the story be without them. It's not take serious.
René Studer 2 years ago
This whole post pissed me off. It seemed to imply that liking a character is the same thing as agreeing with a characters actions. This is why we can’t have good movies anymore.
Benita Valdez 2 years ago
Thank you. You can love a character that is evil and vile because they were created so amazingly. I mean look, they illicit such intense feelings from people that there are posts like these with so much hate for them. All the hate and revulsion of a character is just testament to the skill of the creator and really deserves the adoration for being so hateable
Load More Replies... Casey McAlister 2 years ago
I'd like to note that liking a character is not like liking a person. You like them not because they are great people, you like them because they are interesting to observe. And characters with questionable morality tend to be the most interesting ones,cause you can't be 100% sure what they are going to do in one or another situation.
tuzdayschild 2 years ago
It's possible to like a great villain without wanting to be that villain. How interesting woud the story be without them. It's not take serious.
René Studer 2 years ago
This whole post pissed me off. It seemed to imply that liking a character is the same thing as agreeing with a characters actions. This is why we can’t have good movies anymore.
Benita Valdez 2 years ago
Thank you. You can love a character that is evil and vile because they were created so amazingly. I mean look, they illicit such intense feelings from people that there are posts like these with so much hate for them. All the hate and revulsion of a character is just testament to the skill of the creator and really deserves the adoration for being so hateable
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