I’m not afraid of men’s penises but if I was presented with a tight clad penis bulge walking up to my desk at eye level I’d find it offputting tbh

It doesn''t have to be fear. It can just be..." I don''t want to see that.""

@lenka - this is a social etiquette issue, not a biology lesson. Comparing penises to breasts is perfectly appropriate.

Why are people comparing boobs to penises? They're completely different body parts: placed on different positions on one's body, serving completely different functions and releasing completely different fluids. I wear a bra because I need it, but in this case, it shouldn't be anyone's business what she is or isn't wearing underneath her clothes. Dress code only makes sense if your role includes face-to-face meeting with customers or partners. Or, in case you're handling physically dangerous components or tasks, you need a uniform/protective gear. Full stop.

@lenka, @Daria B since vaginas don't usually protrude as to possibly be offensive (not even getting into the cameltoe thing), breast to penis is the most sensible comparison here.

@Lis If we want to compare penises then we should be comparing vaginas with penises. Not breasts.

Something I've pondered for a while. In the US, the sexualization of women's bodies is everywhere. It's in TV shows and in thousands of ads. Breasts, especially, are used to draw the eye (read: men's eyes) to those ads. Young boys are exposed to these from the first time they can focus their eyes on print or TV. They grow up into men where "titties" are sexy. When these same men can't keep their eyes off of a women who is breastfeeding, or they make sexual comments about it, we all act offended and surprised. The sexualization of breasts is all they've ever known. Society cannot have it both ways -- we cannot create an entire culture where breasts are very specifically used for sexual titillation then chastise men when they see breasts as sexual.

Because they can't read r's

Why are people staring at her rather than doing their jobs? I rarely even realize when someone dyes their hair.

This is going to shock you Lis, but I so agree with you.

@ Dizzy Falcon True, but the "unspoken etiquette" she mentions still is like an unofficial dress code. In some ways, it's a bit harder than having an official dress code since the rules are basically "what everyone communally agrees is appropriate". For an extreme example, if someone came in wearing a swimsuit, most places would say "Dress code or not, we all agree that's inappropriate". I agree that it probably feels like a bait and switch to her to have them say "no dress code" and then "but, actually, there are rules", but if everyone in that office agrees (1) bras are required and (2) they can all tell she's not wearing one, then that's what she has to do if she wants to work there.

I've never had a dress code at work that said specifically that bras were required. It's kind of an unwritten rule of workplace attire. I've never seen something like that needing to be enforced. I'm curious how a company would go about making policy? Do you require them for all women? What about women who don't have much in the way of fatty tissue on their chests? Do you require it for men or non-binary people who have more? What makes that different from requiring restraint for other bits of the body that might move about in a way the draws attention? Do you require girdles, supportive underpants?

We would love to wear shorts in my workplace. Another big competitor allows it, most don't. Because long pants are supposed to impart a view of professionalism. I think shorts, nice ones, would put customer at ease. I don't make the rules, so, I'll live.

@ A.M. Pierre Another thing about the unofficial dress code thing: Even if they don't see it as cause to fire her, it seems pretty unlikely she's going to get anywhere there if she doesn't amend her attire to match the general standards of the place. In general, that can happen with all sorts of things about dress and grooming that might not be pointed out to a person. If you're under-dressed, or a bit untidy. Maybe your facial hair isn't well groomed or you don't wear cosmetics. None of it is fair, but let's face it, a lot of people are influenced by an overall image they have of someone that doesn't just include the quality of their work. In this case, she's actually been told multiple times. If they don't fire her, her career their is probably going to stagnate. Is it fair? No. Do more conventionally attractive people get more promotions? Yes. Are people who don't follow the "unspoken etiquette" of an office often viewed as outsiders and not team players? Yes.

The place where the op works doesn't have a dress code tho

yeah, that generally describes a sweater.

the more we see them looking flappy, the more normalized it will become, they less people will stare. I suspect the majority of the people staring at boobs on a topless European beach are north american dudes. Funny though, lots of men don't wear underwear to work. Sure, there's gossip, sometimes, if it's even noticed because that is not where we are staring during the work day typically.

She’s not naked, She’s wearing literally layers of clothes or a sweater.

@Natalie Kudryashova I know. It was the closest example I could think of to explain that some things are fine for your private life, yet not for public. I personally don't care, but if people are complaining, it is a problem for them. Also, we don't have enough information to know...are there children that are ever present in the business she works in? That could give reason to the complaints.

Pusfarm, the EEOC doesn't give a s**t what you're attracted to our your ability to control yourself. An employer *cannot* force a dress code that affects genders differently. You can downvote that all you want, but it doesn't change s**t.

@Potato Right, because men with "prominent fleshy pectorals" - aka moobs - is so hot and such a turn-on to women and gay men that nobody would get any work done. /s

Yeah but your comparison doesn''t hold up. It doesn''t matter what kind of bra she''s wearing; the problem is she isn''t wearing one. The guys don''t have to wear tighty wighties----but they should be wearing underwear and if they are not and people notice they will get into the same trouble.

I would question if they would require a male with prominent fleshy pectorals if he is required to wear a bra.

Yes, but the company doesn't have this requirement. They would have had to give her that information ahead of time ... also that's why the secretary is telling her and not her supervisor or HR.

(I wrote this somewhere else in this discussion) But bra's are uncomfortable and unnecessary, both physically and in society. I understand not wanting to wear one, but you do have to in certain places, especially if it was already pointed out to you. However, sexualizing something that doesn't need to be sexualized is awful, and it can have effects on your body to just essentialy wear a breast brace without a reason to do so.

In fact I went to highschool with a very well endowed woman. Her family was very poor, and she couldn't afford the bras required. (She was in the G cup category I believe). She just wore a tight shirt underneath that contained them to a point, and went along her way. I believe she still does that, and she works as a municipal bus driver. Whatever works for you. I find it weird when, especially men, feel they can make suggestions on how a Woman should dress. If she was walking around with a low cut top and nipples slipping out randomly, then I can see the issue there, but covered by coats? Come on. A bra isn't really going to stop the issue. If they're large enough, they're still going to move, still going to bounce. My Wife is blessed, and no matter the bra, she gets a bounce when she walks. Just the way it is. All of this sounds like a them problem, and not a her problem.

Sort of, equipment float driver between construction sites. I see butt cracks and bellies all day. Having said that, I don't get the equalization to be honest, exposed flesh is exposed flesh. The writer explains that she's covering up with coats. I don't see the problem. I worked in office settings for 10 years, some Woman are more endowed than others, it is what it is.

I don't think we have to worry, I doubt anyone would allow you to work in HR.

You remind me of a quote from the movie Slapshot. "That c**t is no good."