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Family Of 4 Expects Woman To Take Them In During Hard Times, She Brings Back The Humiliating Past
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Family Of 4 Expects Woman To Take Them In During Hard Times, She Brings Back The Humiliating Past

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People have varying definitions of what being a family is. While some would move mountains for a relative in need, others would go the opposite route and abandon the person in dire straits. 

This story focuses on the latter. A woman struggling with her finances lived with her brother and his wife. The couple then decided to kick her out to accommodate the birth of their child.

The tables recently turned, urging the family to come to the woman for help. However, the emotional wounds brought on by her eviction experience made her hesitant to take her brother in. 

After some gaslighting from her parents, the author is now torn between serving “karmic justice” and helping a family member. Scroll down for the whole story. 

A woman refuses to take in her brother and his family after they evicted her from their home years ago

Image credits: RDNE Stock project / Pexels (not the actual photo)

“AITA for refusing to let my brother’s family move in after he evicted me years ago?”

“Several years ago, I (28F) was living with my older brother “Tom” (37M) and his wife “Karen” (34F). I had just graduated from college, had a pretty bad job at the time, and was struggling to make ends meet. Tom had a house with a guest room, and he told me I could stay with them for a while until I got back on my feet. I was beyond grateful, and I made sure to help out however I could — cooking, cleaning, buying groceries when I could afford it.

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Fast forward about six months. I finally landed a decent job and was able to contribute more financially. I was on my way to becoming independent. Around this time, Karen got pregnant.

At first, everything seemed fine, but then Karen started dropping subtle hints that they needed more space for the baby. The hints soon turned into direct conversations about how they needed the guest room for a nursery. Tom assured me that I could stay until I found a new place, but Karen was clearly becoming more agitated by the day.

Then, one afternoon, I came home from work to find all my stuff packed up and sitting in the hallway. Tom told me that Karen had decided they needed me out ASAP. No discussion, no warning. He tried to soften the blow by saying they’d help me with a security deposit on a new place, but it was humiliating and hurtful.

I ended up couch surfing for a couple of months until I could afford a small studio apartment. It was a really tough time for me, both emotionally and financially. I’ll never forget the feeling of being thrown out of my own brother’s house like that.

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Image credits: Ivan Samkov / Pexels (not the actual photo)

Fast forward to now. Tom’s life has taken a turn. His business went under, and they’re having financial issues. Last week, he called me out of the blue, sounding desperate. They’re being evicted from their house and have nowhere to go. He asked if he, Karen, and their two kids could stay with me for “a few months” while they get back on their feet.

Here’s the thing: I’m doing much better now. I have a good job, a nice apartment, and I’ve been saving for a house. I can technically accommodate them, but the thought of letting them move in after what they did to me years ago just doesn’t sit right.

I told Tom I needed to think about it, and ever since, he’s been sending me guilt-trippy texts about how “family is supposed to be there for each other” and how they have nowhere else to go. Even my parents have gotten involved, saying I should let them stay with me because “they’re family” and “what happened years ago is in the past.”

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But here’s the kicker: Karen hasn’t apologized once for how they treated me. Not a word. She didn’t even acknowledge it when we spoke on the phone. It’s like they expect me to just forget about it and welcome them with open arms. I’m torn. Part of me feels like I should help because they are my family, but the other part of me feels like this is karmic justice.

AITA for refusing to let them stay with me after what they did? Or should I let the past go and help them out in their time of need?”

Credits: peachygurl18

Image credits: Anna Shvets / Pexels (not the actual photo)

Betrayal trauma can have long-lasting effects

The author likely felt betrayed and abandoned by her own brother, and she admitted to carrying the pain and being unable to let it go. She may also be experiencing betrayal trauma. 

Psychologist Dr. Jennifer Freyd first coined the term in 1991, defining it as a violation of trust committed by someone you depend on for survival. Betrayal trauma comes in various forms, including familial betrayal. 

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Betrayal trauma carries a heavier burden compared to post-traumatic stress because it involves someone close to you. In an interview with Mind Body Green, licensed therapist Jessica Conquest, LMFT, likened it to getting robbed on a subway and then finding out a partner set you up for an insurance payout. Such pain may linger for years. 

A person suffering from betrayal trauma may show specific signs. According to MindWell Psychology NYC, these may include flashbacks and avoidance behaviors, as well as a lack of trust toward other people and low self-esteem.

The author seems to have experienced all of the above. She went through emotional struggles as she tried to shake off the feeling of being abandoned by a close family member. 

Her avoidance and lack of trust were displayed when she refused to take her brother in during his time of need. 

Image credits: SHVETS production / Pexels (not the actual photo)

Sharing one’s experiences may help alleviate the burden of betrayal trauma

People deal with traumatic experiences differently. Some may seek professional help through different forms of therapy. 

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In any case, knowing you’re struggling is step one in the right direction. 

“Recovery implies awareness,” Conquest says, adding that cognitive behavior therapy (CBT) and eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (EMDR) are specifically designed to help patients deal with their traumatic struggles. 

Meanwhile, trauma psychologist Dr. Remi Coker suggests seeking help from others around. 

“Sometimes turning to others for support can show us that we aren’t alone, and that can be enough to find a way to change one’s situation,” Dr. Coker told Mind Body Green.

Conquest agrees that therapy may not be a viable option for many, and seeking solace from others may be an excellent first step. 

This seems to have been the author’s course of action. In her post, she admitted that she was seeking an outside perspective, even if it came from people she didn’t know personally. 

However, she seems more inclined to stick to her guns and refuse to take in her brother’s family. If she indeed suffered from betrayal trauma, it may take a while before her wounds could completely heal. 

What’s your opinion, dear readers? Was the woman’s decision justified? Or should she just take the high road?

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The author provided more information, but many commenters sided with her

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Those who did explained their reasons

However, some thought she may have been ungrateful toward her brother and his wife

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Miguel Ordoñez

Miguel Ordoñez

Writer, BoredPanda staff

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Struggling writer by day. Frustrated jazz drummer by night. Space Cowboy 24/7.

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Miguel Ordoñez

Miguel Ordoñez

Writer, BoredPanda staff

Struggling writer by day. Frustrated jazz drummer by night. Space Cowboy 24/7.

Indrė Lukošiūtė

Indrė Lukošiūtė

Author, BoredPanda staff

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I am a Visual editor at Bored Panda, I'm determined to find the most interesting and the best quality images for each post that I do. On my free time I like to unwind by doing some yoga, watching all kinds of movies/tv shows, playing video and board games or just simply hanging out with my cat

Read less »

Indrė Lukošiūtė

Indrė Lukošiūtė

Author, BoredPanda staff

I am a Visual editor at Bored Panda, I'm determined to find the most interesting and the best quality images for each post that I do. On my free time I like to unwind by doing some yoga, watching all kinds of movies/tv shows, playing video and board games or just simply hanging out with my cat

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arthbach
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'd love to her this story again, but retold by the brother, and then the sister-in-law. I suspect it might be different in each retelling.

SuperChicken
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I agree. I'm not siding anyone here, yet, because there are two sides of the coin; and I want to hear the couple's side of their story, individually.

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Ace
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's a huge discrepancy in her tale "The hints soon turned into direct conversations about how they needed the guest room for a nursery." does not square with " No discussion, no warning.". Sounds like she just refused to take the hint.

P Peitsch
Community Member
1 month ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yaps, it's a bit controversial. But anyway, taking in one person for 6 months versus taking in a whole family with two small kids it's a huge difference. Where is the rest of the family? OP's parents? Karen's parents? The best I would do in this situation is, to chip in for them having some hotel/motel room for 6 months. No, not paying the whole bill, just chip in with other family members.

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ToGo
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

A relatively young, married couple let her (28 years old) stay with them for over 6 months and only asked her to leave when they needed the room to start their own family. They tried dropping lots of hints and when she ignored them they had direct conversations with her about leaving and she still didn't get a move on - her own behaviour is what lead to the packing of the bags. I get that she doesn't want her peace disturbed now but she has no right to be salty about being kicked out of her brothers house.

Trillian
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If it was just him I'd say yea, she owes him. But a whole family with two small children? In an apartment? No way would I do this for more than a few weeks. You don't get evicted from one day to the next, how long did he leave this?

similarly
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I've known people this happened to. A lot of it is just denial. They keep thinking somebody's gonna swoop in at the last moment and save the world, just like in the movies. Instead: they get to be homeless. Happened to me about 30 years ago. Couldn't find a job. Finally ran out of money. I luckily had family who could help me, so I didn't end up on the street. People don't realize just how EASY it is to fall down.

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Panda Kicki
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She clearly overstayed her welcome by a mile, refused to look for options when asked and was Picachu-faced when evicted. There is more to this story.

The Phantom Stranger
Community Member
1 month ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

After reading some of these comments, I had to go back and reread the article, because some criticisms weren't adding up for me. OP wasn't a freeloader or taking advantage as some are claiming--she was performing household chores and contributing what she could financially while actively trying to save enough to get her own apartment. OP doesn't mention location, but we all know how outrageous rents are pretty much everywhere now, so setting aside first and last month's rent starting from zero is going to be a heavy lift regardless, and even when you're actively looking, it today's market it can still take months to find an suitable place. Seems like brother understood this but SIL did not. One person living in a spare room is not the same as four extra people in an apartment. NTA.

Alec
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's a world of difference between taking in an adult and a family with two small children

silverfish imperitrix
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Why not tell him there's not enough room? I don't know how big the apartment is, but 5 people take up a lot of space, especially when you dislike one of them. Plus, any apology coming from sil is going to be insincere anyway.

FreeTheUnicorn
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't think OP is the AH either way. If she wants to help nices/newphews and brother, fine, but sign a lease. You can do it for a nominal amount, but it means there is some legal protection for all parties and will set boundaries. (Check lease in advance though, usually you've already signed something abiut how long and how many guests can stay.). Personally, I wouldn't let them stay, but probably clouded judgement due to my own SIL.

Mayara Herrero
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

you have the best level-headed advice here. Thank you. It solves the biggest problem situation here.

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justme
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If this person lives in the USA there are often rules in apartment buildings preventing overnight guests for more than a couple of days. For her to do this she would have to sublet (I think) and many landlords won't approve that either. So even if she wanted to help she might not be able to or they could all end up homeless when the landlord evicts them.

Kelly Scott
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Why doesn't she just tell them her landlord won't allow an extra 4 people in her small apartment? When I rented, it was supposed to be a place for one person only. If I wanted to have a guest stay, they could only stay for two weeks. No one else was allowed to live with me unless my landlord OKed it and he would raise the rent considerably if that happened.

Alexa Saltz
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My brother did the same to me. I am not a forgiving person. Burn me once and you will not get a second chance. Betrayal hurts worse when it comes from family. Toxic dysfunction - I am completely no contact with my entire family. I consider myself an orphan. They tell people I am dead. Win. Win.

angela jeter
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No, but Hell No. Under no circumstances do you allow them to move in with you. If they wanted you out that bad they should have set a date not hinting. Why the rush having a baby is not a state of emergency. The baby could have shared a room with them in a bassinet until she moved out on the agreed upon date.

TribbleThinking
Community Member
1 month ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The lack of apology is the biggest red flag for me. Explain that to them, that you can't trust SIL. She hasn't even the grace to speak to you, but wants to be set free in your house? Tit for tat it is then. Pay for a motel for six months, but there has to be a declaration to the family that you've generously reciprocated by housing FOUR people. Otherwise why bother, and no deal, as it would be ridiculous to have squared things with him and still be called selfish!

Sinners1978
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Once again I don't understand the YTA comments. The OP when living with brother was helping with groceries and household chores. It doesn't sound like she was being a freeloader. And really SIL needs to apologize cause the way it was handled and OP ending up couching surfing wasn't good. It takes time to save up for a first apt rental. There is typically 1st months, last month and security deposit. Also 4 people in what is probably a 1 bedroom apartment? Nope. OP IS nTA amd there needs to be another idea here. The parents and in-laws need to help. Also brother didn't just get evicted out of the blue.

dandylilah
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They had 1 person staying with them. She will have 4!!!! NTA.

ValdaDeDieu
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

NTA; sounds like they have a ton of people TELLING you that you should take them in; so they have other options. There are actually programs for people with children. You're a single female; they're an entire family. You did your best to help when you were with them and they kicked you out without giving you a chance to fully get back on your feet though it was only ONE of you. How hard do you think it will be for you with 5 people around until they're able to move out. NO. There are no bonds there; no one has apologized or even acknowledged their unfairness to you in the past. You are ONE person. Take care of yourself, so you never nave this happen to you again. As I've said, they have children, there are programs for that.

Roberta Surprenant
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Perhaps say that if Karen apologized for putting your stuff out like that, then you might reconsider. After she apologizes, reconsider and decide nope.

Broadredpanda
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I do think they really help you, although how the go you out was wrong, I do think you needed to try harder, because they needed your room for their baby, and you didn't seem to be doing enough. BUT, if they move in, they will take over because they have two children and you're not on great terms with Karen. They will without a doubt stay way longer and feel entitled, and getting someone out that has children will be a nightmare. I'd say ETA but what they're asking is WAAAAAAY more than you did! I don't think you're bad at all, even with what I said at the beginning. You were stuck, simple! It's completely different when it's a whole family that wants to move in. I wouldn't, but you'll expect a backlash, even though you are right to say no. Good luck OP!

Broadredpanda
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Excuse my English at the beginning! I usually reread everything before I post. Duh

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Rachel Pelz
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Hosting four people (one of whom you don't like, for whatever reason...like, "Karen is going to have OP care for the children") is a HUGE favour if you don't live in a half-empty house, which OP doesn't. For days, yes. For weeks, well, if it's family in need. For "probably some months", with no clear end-hell no. Since they're broke, the stakes are high that once OP takes care of rent, groceries and household, their motivation to move out will be even lower than OP's was (pretty immature of her at the time). Only possible way I'd agree is for a fixed period of time with fixed tasks and rules. E.g., no one eats OP's food unless OP agrees. E.g. Karen will do the cleaning of kitchen/bathroom/floors and so on. Quiet night time is.. And: family will move to their new place or parents' house on -insert date. Have parents sign that agreement too. Yes, family is family, but nobody is obliged to change their lifestyle (OP's need for privacy) permanently because brother denied risk of eviction

BrownEyedPanda
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Good luck with getting them to follow THOSE rules. They don't seem like the type of people who think past the end of their noses. Most likely, they will make absolutely no effort to seek out accommodating housing, but WILL make a mess of OP'S living space, while loudly declaring that they're fa-a-a-a-mily. OP will likely never see a cent come out of anyone else's pocket except for their own personal fun, her food will disappear faster than a dollar's worth of cocaine, the speed at which her utility bills will go up will rival the Daytona 500, and too many of her valuable belongings will either be destroyed beyond salvaging or end up "misplaced." It will never be worth the risk of ending up homeless.

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michael Chock
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Pregnancy is hard. If OP had a good job, it makes sense Karen would be getting anxious. Personally I would directly ask for an apology and base decision on that.

Canadadreams
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

For the first time i am supporting the YTA comments and saying You Are The A*s. Why is already written and explained by them. You preferred to remember those 2 months hurt and forget the 6 months help according to your convenience. Your brother did not show out but he was pressured and probably given an ultimatum to kick u out by his wife, due to which u were on the road suddenly one day and i am sure he might have felt very sorry for having to do that bcz of his wife. Its his wife who created havoc for u but u r punishing ur brother and innocent kids for that? What happened to ur humanity. Infact if u let them in, u will get a chance to take revenge on ur SIL softly besides helping ur bro and kids in need and this help will go a very long way bcz no one knows who will need whom in future. Who knows… U MIGHT NEED THEIR HELP IN FUTURE. So remember that very well

Elisabeth Brook
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She overstayed her welcome, and now harbors bad feelings against her brother and his wife? I agree your place is too small to handle all those folks, but having them stay for 2 weeks or so is reasonable. Let the bad feelings go. You have no idea what they were going through.

keryn stone
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think the author outstayed her welcome in the brothers home. She should have made more effort sooner to leave especially after the pregnancy news. It’s only natural the new mum would want the room as a nursery. So yes, she should take them in as they did her.

Data1001
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Boy, do I feel this one. I had hit some bad financial times several years ago -- nothing to do with COVID, although that started a couple of years into my ordeal. First I stayed with one brother and worked a crappy, low-paying job in the area until his wife urged him to urge me to move out. Then another brother offered his place to stay. I moved in with brother #2 right when COVID hit. Nobody in the area was hiring, of course -- not even minimum wage jobs. I applied like crazy to jobs for which I'd been trained, back in the city where I'd previously lived. But wife of brother #2 apparently didn't think I was trying hard enough, and (via her husband) gave me an ultimatum that I had a month to move out. This woman also treated me rudely most of my time there, despite me helping out with chores whenever I could. And she never apologized, either -- in fact, I'm certain she thinks she didn't do anything wrong. It's been a couple of years since then, but I'm still not ready to forgive her.

JSC
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Let’s take out the history, are you comfortable doing this? That’s the question,

BrownEyedPanda
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

To ignore the past is to repeat it. OP would be wise to take a major pass on helping her brother and his family. They did her wrong and show no remorse for it. There's nothing stopping them from repeating it.

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roddy
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If she lets them in, she will be lucky to get a vote in anything that happens under her own roof. They will insist on their own way about everything and completely take over.

Janelle Collard
Community Member
Premium
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If neither set of parents are willing to take them in, what does it say about bro, wife and kids? If OP takes them in they will NEVER leave. She needs to stick to her guns + refuse. Block everybody who thinks it's her job to do this. As for SIL + bro: they did NOT have a discussion with OP to agree to the terms of her staying with them + when she'd have to leave.

Lindsay A
Community Member
1 week ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm kinda on the YTA bench here... probably for the first time! While she does not have to open her home and 4 ppl is more than one... yeah, I would want my extended house guest out before the baby came and she got plenty of hints from mum to be. Yes a notice period would have been nice but, OP sounds as though she was oblivious in an obvious 'you should leave' situation.

Julia Melatis
Community Member
3 weeks ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Best refusal reason, the lease agreement with the landlord. I know ours is very specific about who can live there and even how long (or really how short) a time they can stay.

Ruth Watry
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Brother took in one person who helped around the house - sister is being asked to bring in 4

P.L. Packer
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think she is being a vindictive AH. She has control now and is loving making her brother and SIL miserable. She needs to draw up a simple tenant agreement outlining rent, chores, etc. OP was given hints, had direct conversations and should have been looking for a place to live. Her SIL could have handled it differently, but it sounds like OP had "selective hearing" when it came to the subject of finding another place to live. Bottom line, OP should have been given a deadline to move out instead of being "thrown out". Let brother, SIL and kids move in and don't make the same mistake. Get it in writing and LEARN TO CONVERSE so you each know what the other is talking about.

Fox with a Dragon Tattoo
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Seems like an easy solution to me.. Yes for kids and brother FOR A SHORT TIME. Hard f**king no on the twatwaffle Karen. She cant even be bothered to apologize or acknowledge what it did. That filth has no place and is NOT welcome. Period. EVER. And let the so called brother know hes on thin ice for the perverse audacity of even asking. Without ever any apologies.

Jean b
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

NTA. My husband and I are in our 60s and successful. His mother is turning 88 and still lives independently. My sisters-in-law got repo-d out of their house (one has not worked for over 15 years since she broke her leg and neglected to follow through on the physical therapy. The other fell and broke her back, fell behind on the mortgage, and couldn't keep it together financially when her job downgraded her functions and salary because of the back injury.) They now live with his mother and are more work for her than she needs. They were also hoarders and have filled up her beautiful house with all of their c**p. I only tell this story because you already think you know how it'll be. Trust your reasoning. Be strong. Be assertive. Do not be passive aggressive. You do not have to cop to the grudge. That's old news. You have newer, better reasons, and have offered to help in a much more positive, healthy way. Whether or not they see you as the a$$hole, you are in the right.

Callie Ge
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Regardless of any previous experiences, you’re a single person in an apartment, allowing two other adults & two children to move into your space would be a disaster. They would absolutely take over your home, the amount of c**p that goes along with small children is mind boggling, it fills up the lounge room, the kitchen, the bathroom. If you love your quiet, it would be gone, kids running, yelling, fighting, watching the same video 23 times in a row, refusing to go to bed, refusing to get in the bath, brush their teeth, get dressed, getting up at the crack of dawn every day & the laundry alone that goes with a family jeez if they’ve got pets they would expect them to come too. You were One Adult that pulled your weight & contributed. If your parents are so concerned let them take them in, or her parents. Don’t Let them move in you will never get them out. Your home would be trashed.

Ana Gomez
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Perhaps OP can visit a lawyer, after SIL apologizes and actually means it. The lawyer can draw up a contract outlining terms and timelines they can live with her, say X number of months, and add a caveat THEY HAVE TO BE OUT BY THIS DATE NO EXCEPTIONS in appropriate legal language so they agree they MUST LEAVE BY X DATE and OP will start official eviction proceedings if they violate it and are subject to the equivalent in rent time and utility/internet costs for the entire time they lived there retroactively to the move in date, plus her legal fees if she has to evict them. Stipulations should include: 1. OP will do no childcare, they must clean up after themselves 2. respect her privacy 3. purchase their own groceries & cleaning products First violation of ANY of these pushes the move out date up by a month, second offense forces them to move in 30 days. Brother and his wife must both sign & date it with their own legal representation. It needs to be a legal document.

Mayara Herrero
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The only problem I see here is it´s a huge family. How much spare space does she have? They helped her for months, even though the ending may have been a bit rude for her, they still helped her out during her hard times, so it makes sense for her to do the same, especially since they have small kids, it´s even harder, they can´t couch surf with a whole family. But it is quite different from staying in a guest room that´s not being used than 4 people in an apartment for 1 person.

Key Lime
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She has offered to help them with getting their own place and they said no. A small apartment that has been rented out to a single person is not suitable for an extra family of four.

Jenny Mason
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My sister, her boyfriend and their two kids moved in with me and my newborn once (social housing, UK), they then refused point blank to leave and I had to sleep on the sofa as they took over my house. I wound up packing up myself, my daughter and one bag and walked out leaving them to it.

DrBronxx
Community Member
1 month ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think that first YTA comment describes it perfectly.

Zack Shubb
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This brother took the sister in when she had nowhere else to go, and gave her housing for 6 months. Yeah, it ended poorly and she does deserve some kind of apology for that ending (assuming it went down the way she says) but that doesn't negate the good deed the Brother and SIL did. That said, taking in a family of 4 is hardly the same as taking in your sister for 6 months. A family coming to live with you for an undetermined lengthy period is a huge burden, and anyone who tell you "it is what family does" is just trying to manipulate you with guilt. Poster should agree to a specific length of stay (maybe 1 -2 months) with a hard end by date, after which time the Brother's family can find somewhere else to stay (if the parents are saying it is what family does, let them be family). Also, Poster is well within their rights to say they feel they deserve an apology from SIL for how things ended before.

CD King
Community Member
1 month ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I’m a little shocked by the NTA take on this,post. She is TA….. her bother and SIL took her in, she got a good job, they were about to have a baby and need a nursery, her brother offered financial help. I don’t see where the brother and SIL are the a*s#oles and deserve the scorn.

Jumping Jellyfishes
Community Member
1 month ago

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arthbach
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'd love to her this story again, but retold by the brother, and then the sister-in-law. I suspect it might be different in each retelling.

SuperChicken
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I agree. I'm not siding anyone here, yet, because there are two sides of the coin; and I want to hear the couple's side of their story, individually.

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Ace
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's a huge discrepancy in her tale "The hints soon turned into direct conversations about how they needed the guest room for a nursery." does not square with " No discussion, no warning.". Sounds like she just refused to take the hint.

P Peitsch
Community Member
1 month ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yaps, it's a bit controversial. But anyway, taking in one person for 6 months versus taking in a whole family with two small kids it's a huge difference. Where is the rest of the family? OP's parents? Karen's parents? The best I would do in this situation is, to chip in for them having some hotel/motel room for 6 months. No, not paying the whole bill, just chip in with other family members.

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ToGo
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

A relatively young, married couple let her (28 years old) stay with them for over 6 months and only asked her to leave when they needed the room to start their own family. They tried dropping lots of hints and when she ignored them they had direct conversations with her about leaving and she still didn't get a move on - her own behaviour is what lead to the packing of the bags. I get that she doesn't want her peace disturbed now but she has no right to be salty about being kicked out of her brothers house.

Trillian
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If it was just him I'd say yea, she owes him. But a whole family with two small children? In an apartment? No way would I do this for more than a few weeks. You don't get evicted from one day to the next, how long did he leave this?

similarly
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I've known people this happened to. A lot of it is just denial. They keep thinking somebody's gonna swoop in at the last moment and save the world, just like in the movies. Instead: they get to be homeless. Happened to me about 30 years ago. Couldn't find a job. Finally ran out of money. I luckily had family who could help me, so I didn't end up on the street. People don't realize just how EASY it is to fall down.

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Panda Kicki
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She clearly overstayed her welcome by a mile, refused to look for options when asked and was Picachu-faced when evicted. There is more to this story.

The Phantom Stranger
Community Member
1 month ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

After reading some of these comments, I had to go back and reread the article, because some criticisms weren't adding up for me. OP wasn't a freeloader or taking advantage as some are claiming--she was performing household chores and contributing what she could financially while actively trying to save enough to get her own apartment. OP doesn't mention location, but we all know how outrageous rents are pretty much everywhere now, so setting aside first and last month's rent starting from zero is going to be a heavy lift regardless, and even when you're actively looking, it today's market it can still take months to find an suitable place. Seems like brother understood this but SIL did not. One person living in a spare room is not the same as four extra people in an apartment. NTA.

Alec
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's a world of difference between taking in an adult and a family with two small children

silverfish imperitrix
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Why not tell him there's not enough room? I don't know how big the apartment is, but 5 people take up a lot of space, especially when you dislike one of them. Plus, any apology coming from sil is going to be insincere anyway.

FreeTheUnicorn
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't think OP is the AH either way. If she wants to help nices/newphews and brother, fine, but sign a lease. You can do it for a nominal amount, but it means there is some legal protection for all parties and will set boundaries. (Check lease in advance though, usually you've already signed something abiut how long and how many guests can stay.). Personally, I wouldn't let them stay, but probably clouded judgement due to my own SIL.

Mayara Herrero
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

you have the best level-headed advice here. Thank you. It solves the biggest problem situation here.

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justme
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If this person lives in the USA there are often rules in apartment buildings preventing overnight guests for more than a couple of days. For her to do this she would have to sublet (I think) and many landlords won't approve that either. So even if she wanted to help she might not be able to or they could all end up homeless when the landlord evicts them.

Kelly Scott
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Why doesn't she just tell them her landlord won't allow an extra 4 people in her small apartment? When I rented, it was supposed to be a place for one person only. If I wanted to have a guest stay, they could only stay for two weeks. No one else was allowed to live with me unless my landlord OKed it and he would raise the rent considerably if that happened.

Alexa Saltz
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My brother did the same to me. I am not a forgiving person. Burn me once and you will not get a second chance. Betrayal hurts worse when it comes from family. Toxic dysfunction - I am completely no contact with my entire family. I consider myself an orphan. They tell people I am dead. Win. Win.

angela jeter
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No, but Hell No. Under no circumstances do you allow them to move in with you. If they wanted you out that bad they should have set a date not hinting. Why the rush having a baby is not a state of emergency. The baby could have shared a room with them in a bassinet until she moved out on the agreed upon date.

TribbleThinking
Community Member
1 month ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The lack of apology is the biggest red flag for me. Explain that to them, that you can't trust SIL. She hasn't even the grace to speak to you, but wants to be set free in your house? Tit for tat it is then. Pay for a motel for six months, but there has to be a declaration to the family that you've generously reciprocated by housing FOUR people. Otherwise why bother, and no deal, as it would be ridiculous to have squared things with him and still be called selfish!

Sinners1978
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Once again I don't understand the YTA comments. The OP when living with brother was helping with groceries and household chores. It doesn't sound like she was being a freeloader. And really SIL needs to apologize cause the way it was handled and OP ending up couching surfing wasn't good. It takes time to save up for a first apt rental. There is typically 1st months, last month and security deposit. Also 4 people in what is probably a 1 bedroom apartment? Nope. OP IS nTA amd there needs to be another idea here. The parents and in-laws need to help. Also brother didn't just get evicted out of the blue.

dandylilah
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They had 1 person staying with them. She will have 4!!!! NTA.

ValdaDeDieu
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

NTA; sounds like they have a ton of people TELLING you that you should take them in; so they have other options. There are actually programs for people with children. You're a single female; they're an entire family. You did your best to help when you were with them and they kicked you out without giving you a chance to fully get back on your feet though it was only ONE of you. How hard do you think it will be for you with 5 people around until they're able to move out. NO. There are no bonds there; no one has apologized or even acknowledged their unfairness to you in the past. You are ONE person. Take care of yourself, so you never nave this happen to you again. As I've said, they have children, there are programs for that.

Roberta Surprenant
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Perhaps say that if Karen apologized for putting your stuff out like that, then you might reconsider. After she apologizes, reconsider and decide nope.

Broadredpanda
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I do think they really help you, although how the go you out was wrong, I do think you needed to try harder, because they needed your room for their baby, and you didn't seem to be doing enough. BUT, if they move in, they will take over because they have two children and you're not on great terms with Karen. They will without a doubt stay way longer and feel entitled, and getting someone out that has children will be a nightmare. I'd say ETA but what they're asking is WAAAAAAY more than you did! I don't think you're bad at all, even with what I said at the beginning. You were stuck, simple! It's completely different when it's a whole family that wants to move in. I wouldn't, but you'll expect a backlash, even though you are right to say no. Good luck OP!

Broadredpanda
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Excuse my English at the beginning! I usually reread everything before I post. Duh

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Rachel Pelz
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Hosting four people (one of whom you don't like, for whatever reason...like, "Karen is going to have OP care for the children") is a HUGE favour if you don't live in a half-empty house, which OP doesn't. For days, yes. For weeks, well, if it's family in need. For "probably some months", with no clear end-hell no. Since they're broke, the stakes are high that once OP takes care of rent, groceries and household, their motivation to move out will be even lower than OP's was (pretty immature of her at the time). Only possible way I'd agree is for a fixed period of time with fixed tasks and rules. E.g., no one eats OP's food unless OP agrees. E.g. Karen will do the cleaning of kitchen/bathroom/floors and so on. Quiet night time is.. And: family will move to their new place or parents' house on -insert date. Have parents sign that agreement too. Yes, family is family, but nobody is obliged to change their lifestyle (OP's need for privacy) permanently because brother denied risk of eviction

BrownEyedPanda
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Good luck with getting them to follow THOSE rules. They don't seem like the type of people who think past the end of their noses. Most likely, they will make absolutely no effort to seek out accommodating housing, but WILL make a mess of OP'S living space, while loudly declaring that they're fa-a-a-a-mily. OP will likely never see a cent come out of anyone else's pocket except for their own personal fun, her food will disappear faster than a dollar's worth of cocaine, the speed at which her utility bills will go up will rival the Daytona 500, and too many of her valuable belongings will either be destroyed beyond salvaging or end up "misplaced." It will never be worth the risk of ending up homeless.

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michael Chock
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Pregnancy is hard. If OP had a good job, it makes sense Karen would be getting anxious. Personally I would directly ask for an apology and base decision on that.

Canadadreams
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

For the first time i am supporting the YTA comments and saying You Are The A*s. Why is already written and explained by them. You preferred to remember those 2 months hurt and forget the 6 months help according to your convenience. Your brother did not show out but he was pressured and probably given an ultimatum to kick u out by his wife, due to which u were on the road suddenly one day and i am sure he might have felt very sorry for having to do that bcz of his wife. Its his wife who created havoc for u but u r punishing ur brother and innocent kids for that? What happened to ur humanity. Infact if u let them in, u will get a chance to take revenge on ur SIL softly besides helping ur bro and kids in need and this help will go a very long way bcz no one knows who will need whom in future. Who knows… U MIGHT NEED THEIR HELP IN FUTURE. So remember that very well

Elisabeth Brook
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She overstayed her welcome, and now harbors bad feelings against her brother and his wife? I agree your place is too small to handle all those folks, but having them stay for 2 weeks or so is reasonable. Let the bad feelings go. You have no idea what they were going through.

keryn stone
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think the author outstayed her welcome in the brothers home. She should have made more effort sooner to leave especially after the pregnancy news. It’s only natural the new mum would want the room as a nursery. So yes, she should take them in as they did her.

Data1001
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Boy, do I feel this one. I had hit some bad financial times several years ago -- nothing to do with COVID, although that started a couple of years into my ordeal. First I stayed with one brother and worked a crappy, low-paying job in the area until his wife urged him to urge me to move out. Then another brother offered his place to stay. I moved in with brother #2 right when COVID hit. Nobody in the area was hiring, of course -- not even minimum wage jobs. I applied like crazy to jobs for which I'd been trained, back in the city where I'd previously lived. But wife of brother #2 apparently didn't think I was trying hard enough, and (via her husband) gave me an ultimatum that I had a month to move out. This woman also treated me rudely most of my time there, despite me helping out with chores whenever I could. And she never apologized, either -- in fact, I'm certain she thinks she didn't do anything wrong. It's been a couple of years since then, but I'm still not ready to forgive her.

JSC
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Let’s take out the history, are you comfortable doing this? That’s the question,

BrownEyedPanda
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

To ignore the past is to repeat it. OP would be wise to take a major pass on helping her brother and his family. They did her wrong and show no remorse for it. There's nothing stopping them from repeating it.

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roddy
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If she lets them in, she will be lucky to get a vote in anything that happens under her own roof. They will insist on their own way about everything and completely take over.

Janelle Collard
Community Member
Premium
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If neither set of parents are willing to take them in, what does it say about bro, wife and kids? If OP takes them in they will NEVER leave. She needs to stick to her guns + refuse. Block everybody who thinks it's her job to do this. As for SIL + bro: they did NOT have a discussion with OP to agree to the terms of her staying with them + when she'd have to leave.

Lindsay A
Community Member
1 week ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm kinda on the YTA bench here... probably for the first time! While she does not have to open her home and 4 ppl is more than one... yeah, I would want my extended house guest out before the baby came and she got plenty of hints from mum to be. Yes a notice period would have been nice but, OP sounds as though she was oblivious in an obvious 'you should leave' situation.

Julia Melatis
Community Member
3 weeks ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Best refusal reason, the lease agreement with the landlord. I know ours is very specific about who can live there and even how long (or really how short) a time they can stay.

Ruth Watry
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Brother took in one person who helped around the house - sister is being asked to bring in 4

P.L. Packer
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think she is being a vindictive AH. She has control now and is loving making her brother and SIL miserable. She needs to draw up a simple tenant agreement outlining rent, chores, etc. OP was given hints, had direct conversations and should have been looking for a place to live. Her SIL could have handled it differently, but it sounds like OP had "selective hearing" when it came to the subject of finding another place to live. Bottom line, OP should have been given a deadline to move out instead of being "thrown out". Let brother, SIL and kids move in and don't make the same mistake. Get it in writing and LEARN TO CONVERSE so you each know what the other is talking about.

Fox with a Dragon Tattoo
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Seems like an easy solution to me.. Yes for kids and brother FOR A SHORT TIME. Hard f**king no on the twatwaffle Karen. She cant even be bothered to apologize or acknowledge what it did. That filth has no place and is NOT welcome. Period. EVER. And let the so called brother know hes on thin ice for the perverse audacity of even asking. Without ever any apologies.

Jean b
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

NTA. My husband and I are in our 60s and successful. His mother is turning 88 and still lives independently. My sisters-in-law got repo-d out of their house (one has not worked for over 15 years since she broke her leg and neglected to follow through on the physical therapy. The other fell and broke her back, fell behind on the mortgage, and couldn't keep it together financially when her job downgraded her functions and salary because of the back injury.) They now live with his mother and are more work for her than she needs. They were also hoarders and have filled up her beautiful house with all of their c**p. I only tell this story because you already think you know how it'll be. Trust your reasoning. Be strong. Be assertive. Do not be passive aggressive. You do not have to cop to the grudge. That's old news. You have newer, better reasons, and have offered to help in a much more positive, healthy way. Whether or not they see you as the a$$hole, you are in the right.

Callie Ge
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Regardless of any previous experiences, you’re a single person in an apartment, allowing two other adults & two children to move into your space would be a disaster. They would absolutely take over your home, the amount of c**p that goes along with small children is mind boggling, it fills up the lounge room, the kitchen, the bathroom. If you love your quiet, it would be gone, kids running, yelling, fighting, watching the same video 23 times in a row, refusing to go to bed, refusing to get in the bath, brush their teeth, get dressed, getting up at the crack of dawn every day & the laundry alone that goes with a family jeez if they’ve got pets they would expect them to come too. You were One Adult that pulled your weight & contributed. If your parents are so concerned let them take them in, or her parents. Don’t Let them move in you will never get them out. Your home would be trashed.

Ana Gomez
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Perhaps OP can visit a lawyer, after SIL apologizes and actually means it. The lawyer can draw up a contract outlining terms and timelines they can live with her, say X number of months, and add a caveat THEY HAVE TO BE OUT BY THIS DATE NO EXCEPTIONS in appropriate legal language so they agree they MUST LEAVE BY X DATE and OP will start official eviction proceedings if they violate it and are subject to the equivalent in rent time and utility/internet costs for the entire time they lived there retroactively to the move in date, plus her legal fees if she has to evict them. Stipulations should include: 1. OP will do no childcare, they must clean up after themselves 2. respect her privacy 3. purchase their own groceries & cleaning products First violation of ANY of these pushes the move out date up by a month, second offense forces them to move in 30 days. Brother and his wife must both sign & date it with their own legal representation. It needs to be a legal document.

Mayara Herrero
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The only problem I see here is it´s a huge family. How much spare space does she have? They helped her for months, even though the ending may have been a bit rude for her, they still helped her out during her hard times, so it makes sense for her to do the same, especially since they have small kids, it´s even harder, they can´t couch surf with a whole family. But it is quite different from staying in a guest room that´s not being used than 4 people in an apartment for 1 person.

Key Lime
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

She has offered to help them with getting their own place and they said no. A small apartment that has been rented out to a single person is not suitable for an extra family of four.

Jenny Mason
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My sister, her boyfriend and their two kids moved in with me and my newborn once (social housing, UK), they then refused point blank to leave and I had to sleep on the sofa as they took over my house. I wound up packing up myself, my daughter and one bag and walked out leaving them to it.

DrBronxx
Community Member
1 month ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think that first YTA comment describes it perfectly.

Zack Shubb
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This brother took the sister in when she had nowhere else to go, and gave her housing for 6 months. Yeah, it ended poorly and she does deserve some kind of apology for that ending (assuming it went down the way she says) but that doesn't negate the good deed the Brother and SIL did. That said, taking in a family of 4 is hardly the same as taking in your sister for 6 months. A family coming to live with you for an undetermined lengthy period is a huge burden, and anyone who tell you "it is what family does" is just trying to manipulate you with guilt. Poster should agree to a specific length of stay (maybe 1 -2 months) with a hard end by date, after which time the Brother's family can find somewhere else to stay (if the parents are saying it is what family does, let them be family). Also, Poster is well within their rights to say they feel they deserve an apology from SIL for how things ended before.

CD King
Community Member
1 month ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I’m a little shocked by the NTA take on this,post. She is TA….. her bother and SIL took her in, she got a good job, they were about to have a baby and need a nursery, her brother offered financial help. I don’t see where the brother and SIL are the a*s#oles and deserve the scorn.

Jumping Jellyfishes
Community Member
1 month ago

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