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“A Hill I Will Die On”: Twitter User Speaks Out Against Unpaid Internships For Students, Sparks A Discussion Online
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“A Hill I Will Die On”: Twitter User Speaks Out Against Unpaid Internships For Students, Sparks A Discussion Online

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Recently we wrote that any work must be paid, and this is a fundamental principle of the world economy. We talked about a hapless teen petsitter who didn’t get paid by his employers because he was negligent in his duties, lost their house key, and, on top of that, let the cat he was supposed to take care of run away.

But even in this situation, when instead of a job well done, his employers received several days of anxiety and the need to change the locks in the whole house, the opinions of the readers were still divided, and many believed that if the work took place, then it should still be paid somehow.

At the same time, there is a whole field of activity where people quite officially spend their time, effort, knowledge and skills, while receiving absolutely no pay in return. And society is quite loyal to this – we just call it unpaid internships!

Dr. Zoë Ayres, Head of R&D and academic mental health advocate from the UK, recently brought up this topic in a series of Twitter posts, sparking a heated discussion. According to the author, unpaid internships are, if not an absolute evil, then definitely somewhere nearby, and Dr. Ayres provides ample evidence in support of her point of view.

More info: Twitter

The British academic mental health advocate believes that unpaid internships really shouldn’t be a thing at all

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Image credits: Charity Davenport (not the actual photo)

So, according to Dr. Ayres, unpaid internships are positioned as a great opportunity for students to gain work experience in a large company or organization, expand their professional circle, improve their work skills – it would seem that there are only advantages… But everything is actually far from being as simple as it might seem at first glance.

Image credits: ZJAyres

Image credits: ZJAyres

Unpaid internships could be considered undermining the very idea of equality of all people

According to the author, unpaid internships undermine the very idea of ​​equality of people, because they are de facto available only to those who can afford them financially. Indeed, there are hundreds and thousands of examples of how people had to refuse an interesting and incredibly useful internship for their future career simply because at that time they had to find a side job to earn a living or raise money to continue their studies.

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Image credits: ZJAyres

Image credits: ZJAyres

As a result, according to the Original Poster, access to such internships is likely not to be given to the most capable students, but only to those who have the financial ability. In other words, the system of unpaid internships, according to Dr. Ayres, only contributes to the stratification of society according to the monetary criterion.

Image credits: ZJAyres

Image credits: ZJAyres

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Even non-profit organizations should actually find some opportunities to arrange paid internships, the author believes

But what about, for example, museums or other non-profit organizations that themselves cannot afford to organize paid internships due to their own insufficient funding? Is it possible to refuse internships altogether? No way, says the author. It’s just that the higher-ups of such organizations should leave their comfort zone and try, for example, to find sponsors or patrons to pay for the interns’ work. In any case, it will be more fair, claims the OP.

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Image credits: ZJAyres

It must be admitted that Dr. Ayres is right about a lot of things, and she’s not the only one raising this issue. “To me, this was more surprising,” Harvard Business Review quotes Joshua Kahn, Assistant Director of Research and Public Policy at the National Association of Colleges and Employers (NACE Foundation). “We always knew that there are differences between paid and unpaid interns, but the fact that unpaid interns did not have an advantage over those without an internship is a significant finding.”

Image credits: ZJAyres

Image credits: ZJAyres

According to academic study results, unpaid internship participation exhibits a negative impact on graduate employment outcomes

Moreover, the results of a study conducted back in 2016 by the NACE Foundation confirmed that unpaid internship participation exhibits a negative impact on graduate employment outcomes. Additionally, unpaid internships were shown to play significantly different roles in student career development than paid internships, particularly in regard to professional skill development and academic performance.

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Image credits: icehristream

“Our pay is experience,” the Original Poster quoted many employers, but she couldn’t agree less. “I genuinely can’t get over how many people in this thread couldn’t take opportunities because they couldn’t afford to. We’ve got to do better than this,” says Dr. Ayres.

Image credits: frankieleon (not the actual photo)

However, people’s opinion on the topic of unpaid internships in the comments was divided

We must also say that not all the people in the comments share the OP’s point of view. Moreover, some commenters recall their time as unpaid interns with great fondness and say that it was one of the best times of their lives. On the other hand, nostalgia for the days of their youth is a very common thing among people, and who knows, maybe these commenters are just nostalgic for their student youth?

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Image credits: eestillwell

By the way, some of the commenters fully support Dr. Ayres, noting that a company or organization for some time simply gets an employee who does not need to be paid for their work, and this is contrary to all economic principles and laws of common sense at all. In any case, the problem is ripe, and something needs to be done about it, many people in the comments are sure.

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We’re pretty sure as well that many of you have also interned while seniors at universities, so it’ll be interesting to hear your own stories. And besides, we, as always, are already looking forward to your comments on this very story.

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Oleg Tarasenko

Oleg Tarasenko

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After many years of working as sports journalist and trivia game author and host in Ukraine I joined Bored Panda as a content creator. I do love writing stories and I sincerely believe - there's no dull plots at all. Like a great Italian composer Joaquino Rossini once told: "Give me a police protocol - and I'll make an opera out of it!"

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Oleg Tarasenko

Oleg Tarasenko

Author, BoredPanda staff

After many years of working as sports journalist and trivia game author and host in Ukraine I joined Bored Panda as a content creator. I do love writing stories and I sincerely believe - there's no dull plots at all. Like a great Italian composer Joaquino Rossini once told: "Give me a police protocol - and I'll make an opera out of it!"

Saulė Tolstych

Saulė Tolstych

Author, Community member

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Saulė is a photo editor at Bored Panda with bachelor's degree in Multimedia and Computer Design. The thing that relaxes her the best is going into YouTube rabbit hole. In her free time she loves painting, embroidering and taking walks in nature.

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Saulė Tolstych

Saulė Tolstych

Author, Community member

Saulė is a photo editor at Bored Panda with bachelor's degree in Multimedia and Computer Design. The thing that relaxes her the best is going into YouTube rabbit hole. In her free time she loves painting, embroidering and taking walks in nature.

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Mia Black
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

One comment said that it is easy to say, that internships have to be paid but the money has to come from somewhere. - i think, they are doing work. Work you usually have to pay for. they are not sitting around doing nothing and the Chef are not sitting around just teaching them skills. They are both doing work (maybe the first weeks are more teaching stuff but then you expect the intern to work)

Sam Landon
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You just used a great example. A CHEF. At least in my country most tradespeople are paid for their work portions of their apprenticeships, and journeyman states at a rate equivalent to their position of experience in that trade. ABOLISH unpaid internships and then anyone who wants to qualify for unpaid status has to meet a rigorous standard of practice to establish need/$ or redfine the legal specification between volunteer work and intern work and have heavy penalties ( like the wage unpaid +a punitive addition based on how frequent an offender a workplace is) for those who step over the line between volunteer and intern.

Load More Replies...
Mike Soigne
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Unpaid internship is exploitation. Period. It's classist bull$hit. How often do coveted internships go to the children of the Wealthy and Connected? Pretty often. It's nepotism, and that's bull$hit, too. Freezing out POC or poor people from "insider jobs" and access to the corridors of power is what this "hiring practice" is about. For example, I worked my a*s off for more than one political candidate as "unpaid volunteer," always received pats-on-back for meeting or exceeding my voter contact goals, etc., but when it came time to hand out PAID OFFICE GIGS after "WE WON," those choice assignments went to... the suck ups, the a*s-kissers, or the CHILDREN of campaign DONORS. >:(

RafCo (he/him)
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

THIS. This is actually a much bigger problem than pay or no pay. Our company pays interns about $60K, but a lot of those internships often go to the children of board members, or potential customers.

Load More Replies...
Tim Douglass
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

An internship, paid or not, should have measurable learning goals. It should not be "free" labor for the company. Many internships are just sub-entry-level work positions, with virtually no training and ultimately of no benefit other than freeing higher-paid workers of some of their menial tasks. An internship that moves you among the actual working position of a company, shadowing workers throughout their tasks, with no *productivity* expectations, but an opportunity to learn the various types of tasks and how they are approached would be invaluable.

Kathryn Baylis
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Major corporations, as well as organizations like the UN, which don’t pay their interns should at least provide them room and board, even if it’s like a dormitory setup with a kitchen, or meal credits at the company cafeteria (if they have one). That way, the interns have food and a place to sleep and shower, instead of having to pay for food and an apartment in a very expensive city—-on their $0 salary. I would love to do a summer internship at the UN in New York, which is not the city I live in, btw (I have a Masters in Conflict Resolution, and would love to get my foot in the door of that organization), but absolutely cannot have that experience because I cannot pay overinflated NYC rent for a SAFE apartment on a $0 paycheck, and have no desire to spend a summer in NYC being homeless.

Jo Slatermill
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This looks like another "things that only happen in the US and the rest of the world think they are crazy and not even up for debate"

Loretta
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Unfortunately no. In Germany it's the same. And the UN is a real example as well, the UN doesn't pay its interns.

Load More Replies...
Jenny Shmurak
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How is this legal? It's illegal to not pay for work in normal countries.

Monday
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think unpaid internships are fine IF they are part of your degree. If you're not going to be paid in money then you should be paid in academic credits. That's how ours worked. You went to your assigned internship location, you did your work and then you got your course credit and the company got free labor from people who could do the work but weren't fully qualified yet. If you've already graduated and have a degree you need to be paid for your work because you are fully qualified to do it.

OmBoyGanesh
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Don’t most students where it’s legal to not pay people for their labor (because: it’s experience!!!;yes, this is a USA thing) need to work at least 35 hours a week just to go to school to begin with? Even the slightly wealthier ones who only qualify for private loans still need to work. So how are they to have a non-paying job, paying job and coursework? It’s idealistic to think anyone but those with wealth can afford to work (call it experience, and internship or whatever name feels justifiable) for free. Especially while paying for tuition and textbooks/course material. There’s a reason why this is illegal in developed nations. The OP was 100% with it being classist at best and untenable for the vast majority.

Load More Replies...
MoMcB
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's not fine. If you are doing a job that is necessary to the business, you should be paid.

Amanita Virosa
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

When I went to college I did an unpaid internship. I also had to pay the college for the opportunity. As I remember it was the same price as having to take a normal college class, this was in the USA in the 90's

Nona Wolf
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Just another perspective here... I was a senior employee at a company that offered unpaid internships. I can tell you that most companies actually lose money when they take on interns. Why? Because the intern doesn't know anything, and can't really do anything useful. (sorry - but it's true. Making copies and getting coffee is not a job skill) The intern is there to learn, and must be under the wing of a seasoned professional the whole time. While training interns, my own productivity was cut to zero as I spent my days teaching a college kid how to do my job. My company lost money because I was teaching instead of working. The way I look at this, my company paid for some kids to get valuable training. Eventually we cut the internship program because it was costing us too much. Now kids will have to cough up thousands of dollars to get that kind of specialized training. The "inequality" problem is even worse now.

Týr
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If a company can't afford to train people, they shouldn't be in business.

Load More Replies...
Claire Fraser
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm a sole parent and a student nurse so that I can later ensure a constant income and security. We have to do 2-4 week unpaid placements every semester and it's full time. I work in aged care to support my daughter and myself but our school says we're not allowed to work in any other health care while on placement. How am I supposed to buy food or pay rent? It's hard enough studying full time but to go 2-4 weeks without any pay is too much to ask. A minimum wage is the least they can provide considering we are providing full time labour, and usually taking on the crappy jobs the actual nurses and staff can leave to us students while they have us.

Henry Shane
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

As a student who has gone through this process, I just have to say that students who do not understand all the options avaliable to them should not have opinions like this. You do not need to do an unpaid as there are many paid positions as well. You are fully able to seek out and submit places you find yourself. There are paid and unpaid, if you can't get a paid then um...sorry that's on you for not performing well enough. I have done both paid and unpaid, doing paid extended my education by 3 years and gave me the best experience. Maybe go talk to your school and ve proactive about your education, also maybe go to those events they invite you to and start doing school properly and not like a high school kid. It's grown up time and post secondary doesn't hold your hand anymore. The opportunity is there if you ask for it from the right place. Need to be a good student though, d's may get degrees but your peers will trest you like you have a disease. Will fix errors/typos later.

Stump Rumpersonne
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

In the same vein, offering stipends that equate to less than minimum(slave wage) pay should be illegal. It's a loophole shaped by greed and exploitation.

Shauna Hayden
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If you put internships as part of a paid college year, work instead of lectures, done in the time frame of lectures, leaving time for students to have part time jobs fine. To make it extensive work times that make outside jobs impossible, you're not training up the best students, just the financially privileged ones who have mammy and daddy pay for it. You're only hurting your own company by not getting the best.

Ibbie Ikenzebates
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Isn't this what used to be called an apprenticeship? Do people get paid to learn or do people pay to learn? I don't get this argument.

Jake VanWagoner
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Kill internships. Bring back apprenticeships -- pay them for the time spent training. What you get for it is more people qualified and capable in the industry overall, even if they don't necessarily come back to work for you -- your competitors who are also doing the same thing will send people over your way. If people are flocking to do unpaid internships in your field, then you don't have a shortage of experienced people. What you're doing is slave labor. Note this doesn't apply to volunteer work done for no profit in which the beneficiaries of said work are themselves disadvantaged.

Mikey Kliss
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I had a friend that did a year of pharmacy internship. I could never afford a year of no money like that

Jo Cooper
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Lots of humanities degrees in Australia (nursing, teaching ect) require months of unpaid placements to get the degree. I really want to study social work but I can’t afford to take 3 months off work each year to get my degree. It’s so frustrating

Shoshana Sherrington
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Guys what ur asking for isn't an internship it's a starting position at the company. Internship is not and will never be what you're meant to live on. And it's usually garbage companies who can't afford hires or large corporations who are essentially trialing the latest student pool for people they would want to hire vs hiring someone and finding out they suck. Or some places it's required to hire a certain amount of interns. What you are getting is something to put on your resume (and hopefully some real experience I'm not saying that every internship runs their program as they should) so that when you apply for a real starting position and they ask for your experience you don't deal with the experience/hiring paradox. Deal with it. Take your internship and take a service worker job to make some money.

aubergine10003
Community Member
Premium
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I figured this out 30 years ago, when I was finishing up grad school. I was at the same school as a friend from undergrad - he'd gotten a full scholarship, while mine was just "need based" plus a work study job. OK, fine. I'd already worked all the way through undergrad too. BUT then he was able to take a prestigious 6 month unpaid internship after graduating because his parents were supporting him. I did a 6 weeks unpaid internship because that was as much as I could do without any money coming in.

Julie
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I missed out on an opportunity to do an internship because I didn't have a car to get to the museum that was offering it to me. That's when I realized I would need to change my major to one that didn't require it as a class. I'm still disappointed I couldn't take the position because I think it would may have changed my whole career trajectory. One thing they could do instead is make them actual entry level jobs that are actually truly entry level.

Lynette Hammond
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I did an unpaid internship for a US Congressman and it resulted in a paid job that led to my career path. However, it was a burden on my parents who had to help pay for housing in DC and tuition at Virginia Tech. I also took out student loans for that semester.

Tumo Nakadashi
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It depends on the company and position. I hire one person out of university every three years. Internship is open to three people after their freshman year and continues to their graduation. Starting pay for this position is $300,000USD. If they want a chance for it, they pay their own way.

Mia Black
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

One comment said that it is easy to say, that internships have to be paid but the money has to come from somewhere. - i think, they are doing work. Work you usually have to pay for. they are not sitting around doing nothing and the Chef are not sitting around just teaching them skills. They are both doing work (maybe the first weeks are more teaching stuff but then you expect the intern to work)

Sam Landon
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You just used a great example. A CHEF. At least in my country most tradespeople are paid for their work portions of their apprenticeships, and journeyman states at a rate equivalent to their position of experience in that trade. ABOLISH unpaid internships and then anyone who wants to qualify for unpaid status has to meet a rigorous standard of practice to establish need/$ or redfine the legal specification between volunteer work and intern work and have heavy penalties ( like the wage unpaid +a punitive addition based on how frequent an offender a workplace is) for those who step over the line between volunteer and intern.

Load More Replies...
Mike Soigne
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Unpaid internship is exploitation. Period. It's classist bull$hit. How often do coveted internships go to the children of the Wealthy and Connected? Pretty often. It's nepotism, and that's bull$hit, too. Freezing out POC or poor people from "insider jobs" and access to the corridors of power is what this "hiring practice" is about. For example, I worked my a*s off for more than one political candidate as "unpaid volunteer," always received pats-on-back for meeting or exceeding my voter contact goals, etc., but when it came time to hand out PAID OFFICE GIGS after "WE WON," those choice assignments went to... the suck ups, the a*s-kissers, or the CHILDREN of campaign DONORS. >:(

RafCo (he/him)
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

THIS. This is actually a much bigger problem than pay or no pay. Our company pays interns about $60K, but a lot of those internships often go to the children of board members, or potential customers.

Load More Replies...
Tim Douglass
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

An internship, paid or not, should have measurable learning goals. It should not be "free" labor for the company. Many internships are just sub-entry-level work positions, with virtually no training and ultimately of no benefit other than freeing higher-paid workers of some of their menial tasks. An internship that moves you among the actual working position of a company, shadowing workers throughout their tasks, with no *productivity* expectations, but an opportunity to learn the various types of tasks and how they are approached would be invaluable.

Kathryn Baylis
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Major corporations, as well as organizations like the UN, which don’t pay their interns should at least provide them room and board, even if it’s like a dormitory setup with a kitchen, or meal credits at the company cafeteria (if they have one). That way, the interns have food and a place to sleep and shower, instead of having to pay for food and an apartment in a very expensive city—-on their $0 salary. I would love to do a summer internship at the UN in New York, which is not the city I live in, btw (I have a Masters in Conflict Resolution, and would love to get my foot in the door of that organization), but absolutely cannot have that experience because I cannot pay overinflated NYC rent for a SAFE apartment on a $0 paycheck, and have no desire to spend a summer in NYC being homeless.

Jo Slatermill
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This looks like another "things that only happen in the US and the rest of the world think they are crazy and not even up for debate"

Loretta
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Unfortunately no. In Germany it's the same. And the UN is a real example as well, the UN doesn't pay its interns.

Load More Replies...
Jenny Shmurak
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How is this legal? It's illegal to not pay for work in normal countries.

Monday
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think unpaid internships are fine IF they are part of your degree. If you're not going to be paid in money then you should be paid in academic credits. That's how ours worked. You went to your assigned internship location, you did your work and then you got your course credit and the company got free labor from people who could do the work but weren't fully qualified yet. If you've already graduated and have a degree you need to be paid for your work because you are fully qualified to do it.

OmBoyGanesh
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Don’t most students where it’s legal to not pay people for their labor (because: it’s experience!!!;yes, this is a USA thing) need to work at least 35 hours a week just to go to school to begin with? Even the slightly wealthier ones who only qualify for private loans still need to work. So how are they to have a non-paying job, paying job and coursework? It’s idealistic to think anyone but those with wealth can afford to work (call it experience, and internship or whatever name feels justifiable) for free. Especially while paying for tuition and textbooks/course material. There’s a reason why this is illegal in developed nations. The OP was 100% with it being classist at best and untenable for the vast majority.

Load More Replies...
MoMcB
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's not fine. If you are doing a job that is necessary to the business, you should be paid.

Amanita Virosa
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

When I went to college I did an unpaid internship. I also had to pay the college for the opportunity. As I remember it was the same price as having to take a normal college class, this was in the USA in the 90's

Nona Wolf
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Just another perspective here... I was a senior employee at a company that offered unpaid internships. I can tell you that most companies actually lose money when they take on interns. Why? Because the intern doesn't know anything, and can't really do anything useful. (sorry - but it's true. Making copies and getting coffee is not a job skill) The intern is there to learn, and must be under the wing of a seasoned professional the whole time. While training interns, my own productivity was cut to zero as I spent my days teaching a college kid how to do my job. My company lost money because I was teaching instead of working. The way I look at this, my company paid for some kids to get valuable training. Eventually we cut the internship program because it was costing us too much. Now kids will have to cough up thousands of dollars to get that kind of specialized training. The "inequality" problem is even worse now.

Týr
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If a company can't afford to train people, they shouldn't be in business.

Load More Replies...
Claire Fraser
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm a sole parent and a student nurse so that I can later ensure a constant income and security. We have to do 2-4 week unpaid placements every semester and it's full time. I work in aged care to support my daughter and myself but our school says we're not allowed to work in any other health care while on placement. How am I supposed to buy food or pay rent? It's hard enough studying full time but to go 2-4 weeks without any pay is too much to ask. A minimum wage is the least they can provide considering we are providing full time labour, and usually taking on the crappy jobs the actual nurses and staff can leave to us students while they have us.

Henry Shane
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

As a student who has gone through this process, I just have to say that students who do not understand all the options avaliable to them should not have opinions like this. You do not need to do an unpaid as there are many paid positions as well. You are fully able to seek out and submit places you find yourself. There are paid and unpaid, if you can't get a paid then um...sorry that's on you for not performing well enough. I have done both paid and unpaid, doing paid extended my education by 3 years and gave me the best experience. Maybe go talk to your school and ve proactive about your education, also maybe go to those events they invite you to and start doing school properly and not like a high school kid. It's grown up time and post secondary doesn't hold your hand anymore. The opportunity is there if you ask for it from the right place. Need to be a good student though, d's may get degrees but your peers will trest you like you have a disease. Will fix errors/typos later.

Stump Rumpersonne
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

In the same vein, offering stipends that equate to less than minimum(slave wage) pay should be illegal. It's a loophole shaped by greed and exploitation.

Shauna Hayden
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If you put internships as part of a paid college year, work instead of lectures, done in the time frame of lectures, leaving time for students to have part time jobs fine. To make it extensive work times that make outside jobs impossible, you're not training up the best students, just the financially privileged ones who have mammy and daddy pay for it. You're only hurting your own company by not getting the best.

Ibbie Ikenzebates
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Isn't this what used to be called an apprenticeship? Do people get paid to learn or do people pay to learn? I don't get this argument.

Jake VanWagoner
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Kill internships. Bring back apprenticeships -- pay them for the time spent training. What you get for it is more people qualified and capable in the industry overall, even if they don't necessarily come back to work for you -- your competitors who are also doing the same thing will send people over your way. If people are flocking to do unpaid internships in your field, then you don't have a shortage of experienced people. What you're doing is slave labor. Note this doesn't apply to volunteer work done for no profit in which the beneficiaries of said work are themselves disadvantaged.

Mikey Kliss
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I had a friend that did a year of pharmacy internship. I could never afford a year of no money like that

Jo Cooper
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Lots of humanities degrees in Australia (nursing, teaching ect) require months of unpaid placements to get the degree. I really want to study social work but I can’t afford to take 3 months off work each year to get my degree. It’s so frustrating

Shoshana Sherrington
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Guys what ur asking for isn't an internship it's a starting position at the company. Internship is not and will never be what you're meant to live on. And it's usually garbage companies who can't afford hires or large corporations who are essentially trialing the latest student pool for people they would want to hire vs hiring someone and finding out they suck. Or some places it's required to hire a certain amount of interns. What you are getting is something to put on your resume (and hopefully some real experience I'm not saying that every internship runs their program as they should) so that when you apply for a real starting position and they ask for your experience you don't deal with the experience/hiring paradox. Deal with it. Take your internship and take a service worker job to make some money.

aubergine10003
Community Member
Premium
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I figured this out 30 years ago, when I was finishing up grad school. I was at the same school as a friend from undergrad - he'd gotten a full scholarship, while mine was just "need based" plus a work study job. OK, fine. I'd already worked all the way through undergrad too. BUT then he was able to take a prestigious 6 month unpaid internship after graduating because his parents were supporting him. I did a 6 weeks unpaid internship because that was as much as I could do without any money coming in.

Julie
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I missed out on an opportunity to do an internship because I didn't have a car to get to the museum that was offering it to me. That's when I realized I would need to change my major to one that didn't require it as a class. I'm still disappointed I couldn't take the position because I think it would may have changed my whole career trajectory. One thing they could do instead is make them actual entry level jobs that are actually truly entry level.

Lynette Hammond
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I did an unpaid internship for a US Congressman and it resulted in a paid job that led to my career path. However, it was a burden on my parents who had to help pay for housing in DC and tuition at Virginia Tech. I also took out student loans for that semester.

Tumo Nakadashi
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It depends on the company and position. I hire one person out of university every three years. Internship is open to three people after their freshman year and continues to their graduation. Starting pay for this position is $300,000USD. If they want a chance for it, they pay their own way.

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