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Family Screams At Woman After She Refuses To Be Her Spoiled Sister’s Surrogate
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Family Screams At Woman After She Refuses To Be Her Spoiled Sister’s Surrogate

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While having kids seems like a breeze, let me reassure you that it is, however, not the case. It’s a huge financial, emotional, social, and health commitment that just happens and you gotta accept it.

That is, unfortunately, above the heads of this family who flat out demanded their “black sheep” daughter would be a surrogate for her golden child sister, despite having gone through an extremely risky birthing herself.

The knee-jerk reaction to considering kids is to think about anything but the health risks involved—but they ought to be considered first

Image credits: Andrew Seaman (not the actual photo)

This family, however, gave zero consideration for their daughter when they flat out demanded to be a surrogate for her sister

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Image credits: Karolina Grabowska (not the actual photo)

Image credits: Ok_Yogurtcloset_4616

All it did was create an even bigger divide in the family and it left the daughter feeling awful about storming out, despite her having a right to

A woman recently turned to Reddit for advice on a family matter. Long story short, she was asked (in a demanding way) by her estranged family to be a surrogate for her sister, who’s infertile.

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Having always had heart problems—and that caused a complicated and risky birth herself with her firstborn—she tried to explain why she couldn’t. The family didn’t have a good track record of being nice, and it only continued in this last conversation, after which OP simply stormed out.

Well, Redditors were all there to support her. The general tone in the comment section was that OP was not a jerk to refuse—she’d be encouraged to do the same even if she didn’t have health problems due to the family’s abusiveness.

In fact, many suggested going no contact with the family. Entitlement and arrogance aside, folks were quick to point out the ludicrous move with the card congratulating on the surrogacy and the fact that any doctor overseeing the surrogacy would flat out laugh the sister out of the room for presenting OP’s medical history.

Image credits: Dương Nhân (not the actual photo)

And speaking of disqualification, yes, there are factors that can deny folks surrogacy

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The green light for surrogacy is determined on a case by case basis as there are many personal factors to consider. In rare cases, even some disqualifying factors can be viewed flexibly if they are isolated and mild.

However, there’s ample reason for a doc to not approve a surrogacy, including the obvious causes directly related to all things birthing, i.e. Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, Preeclampsia, Endometriosis.

Even conditions that aren’t directly related are included, e.g. mental illness that requires medication to treat and an unhealthy BMI. Heck, you don’t even need a condition to not qualify—no history of childbirth, drug use, and not being of legal age are also deal breaking factors.

And even though some factors can be flexible, like some sexually transmitted diseases, requirements can vary depending on the surrogacy agency, clinic, and personal health, and a person will have to go through a number of screening procedures anyway, so there’s ample reason for doctors to look out for the woman’s best interest in the case of a risky pregnancy.

So, what are your thoughts on any of this? Share your takes and stories in the comment section below!

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Image credits: freestocks (not the actual photo)

The author of the post also provided more information as responses to people’s takes in the comment section

The subreddit’s take on the situation was a unanimous ‘not a jerk’

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Robertas Lisickis

Robertas Lisickis

Writer, BoredPanda staff

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Some time ago, Robertas used to spend his days watching how deep the imprint in his chair will become as he wrote for Bored Panda. Wrote about pretty much everything under and beyond the sun. Not anymore, though. He's now probably playing Gwent or hosting Dungeons and Dragons adventures for those with an inclination for chaos.

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Robertas Lisickis

Robertas Lisickis

Writer, BoredPanda staff

Some time ago, Robertas used to spend his days watching how deep the imprint in his chair will become as he wrote for Bored Panda. Wrote about pretty much everything under and beyond the sun. Not anymore, though. He's now probably playing Gwent or hosting Dungeons and Dragons adventures for those with an inclination for chaos.

Justinas Keturka

Justinas Keturka

Author, BoredPanda staff

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I'm the Visual Editor at Bored Panda, responsible for ensuring that everything our audience sees is top-notch and well-researched. What I love most about my job? Discovering new things about the world and immersing myself in exceptional photography and art.

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Justinas Keturka

Justinas Keturka

Author, BoredPanda staff

I'm the Visual Editor at Bored Panda, responsible for ensuring that everything our audience sees is top-notch and well-researched. What I love most about my job? Discovering new things about the world and immersing myself in exceptional photography and art.

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The Starsong Princess
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Even if you were perfectly healthy and popped out babies like a pez dispenser, being a surrogate for your sister is a bad idea. These people are toxic, get as far away from them as possible.

Squirrelly Panda
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Even if she easily popped out babies and had a fantastic relationship with her sister, it's her right to say no to being a surrogate. Add on everything else, and there is less than zero reason to say yes.

Load More Replies...
Alex Boyd
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

A measly card, to announce that she is their surrogate? They should have at least given her a nice gift bag with a red dress and white bonnet. And an ID changing her name to "OfBrother-in-law's-name."

Mona
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Gosh, my family wants me to risk my life and I said no. AITA? /s

Bernd Herbert
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It may have been easier to tell them, that after her first pregnancy where she almost didn't make it, they decided that one kid was enough and she got a sterilization.

just me
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm kinda wondering why she didn't. Unless they're in the US, but in that case, I'm sure her husband would sign off on it.

Load More Replies...
elfin
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Your family is toxic. I found out that two of my siblings were unhealthy to be around, so I no longer have a relationship with either. It felt so good to make that decision. They had put me through a lot of stress and made me miserable. They will never get to do that again. I strongly advise you to cut them off. You have a lovely family of your own.

Adam Belaire
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Should've handed the card to OP's mother and say "I think this is meant for you"

Rostit.. .
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

this poor woman. How damaged must part of her be to even think she might be an a$$hole here. So not the AH

Tyke
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OP needs to reframe this entire story as "my family who treated me like dirt my entire life, want me to potentially die to give my sister a child. They would prefer my sister has a child and my son has no Mother". Or she should just ask them, in those words - "so you're happy for me to die, and your only grandchild to lose his parent in order for sister to get a baby, rather than adopt for example?". Also, I highly doubt any medical professional would allow insemination to go ahead, as she'd fail all the checks. Unless they expect her to sleep with her BIL... so many wrongs.

Ron Baza
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Give the parents and sister a pint of bleach each to drink. Hopefully they’ll be fine - “for your family, you’ve got to take risks”.

April Dancer
Community Member
7 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Okay, own up. Who voted for 'totally justified'? I sincerely hope you misread the question, because that is seriously messed up if you think there's no problem in telling - not asking - anyone to be your surrogate, let alone your sister who is likely to actually die, just because you think you have a right to have a child. Sorry to disillusion you, but, you really don't.

Guess Undheit
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Put aside the toxic "family" of black sheep and golden child, and put aside the OP's past medical issues during childbirth. This is STILL out of line. NOBODY has the "right" to rape her body and force her to give birth for someone else. They can adopt a kid if they want one, not the family rape and force her to give birth unwillingly. She should cut off all contact and file a restraining order against them.

CK
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Hypothetically, if there were someone whose doctor told them a miracle happened and they can have painless, risk free pregnancy and childbirth unlike any other human, it would still be too much to expect them to be a surrogate.

Chrissie Anit
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How on earth can any reasonable human think that they would be the AH in this situation?!?!?

Cecil
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Uh, she'd been abused all her life. Her parents complained to her face about having to pay for her health issues when she was young and living still living with them. That doesn't usually produce a confident adult. Hope that helped

Load More Replies...
Fox with a Dragon Tattoo
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

WTF did I just read... HARD NC with those sh*t stain filth that calls themselves her family.

brittany
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

no doctor would approve her for surrogacy. id honestly be petty AF and schedule the appointment, make them pay for the eval, and then rub it in their faces that OP isnt a candidate for surrogacy.

C W
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OP, protect your own child. He's at risk of being kidnapped by your 'family'. Be careful.

InfiniteZeek
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Um.....f**k the medical stuff. If I were the epitome of health, I would still tell these people to f**k right off.

Granny's Thoughts
Community Member
8 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Your parents actually think they are entitled to tell you to lend your body for 9+ months to a sister who has made your life miserable? Hell No. Let them find and pay for a professional surrogate.

LazyKitten
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Oh my god- go NC asap and leave that toxic hellhole behind. Take your grandparents and your family and run, girl, run. NTA all the way.

Epona
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm confused by the part of the comment mtndewbakablast made saying that OP should say to her sister "Seriously, your husband wants to cheat on you with me". I'm not super informed about surrogacy but I have seen the movie Baby Mama and when Dax Sheppard's character tells Tina Fey's character (Dax's character is the boyfriend of Amy Pohler's character, who is Tina's surrogate "My wife is gonna have sex with somebody else's husband to do this?". He misunderstood. I don't think surrogacy necessarily always involves cheating on your partner. Or even that often.

Lisa Barbeau
Community Member
7 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No doctor would approve her being a surrogate because of the health problems. The post you refer to had the same thought as me. These folks are crazy enough to suggest it as the alternative when the clinic says no.

Load More Replies...
Becca not Becky
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No way! Heart problems or not, you don't owe this to anyone for any reason, ESPECIALLY not someone who treated you poorly your entire life. Surrogacy is expensive, so they probably just wanted a free surrogate. If they want to talk about taking risks for family, then the sister can risk being sad her whole life about never being a mom if it means her sister is alive and healthy.

Nicole Mae
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Absolutely NTA. OP doesn't owe them her medical explanations either. I hope she's able to successfully go no contact ASAP.

KatSaidWhat
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Every once in a while I read something that makes my life feel Disney. Wtf.

DarkViolet
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

NTA. Your family is the worst I've seen in a long time. You need to go straight-up NC with these characters. You have nothing to justify to them; you owe them nothing, save a 2×4 upside their heads. Cut them off NOW; you have the life you deserve and don't need it contaminated by them.

Pamela Willson
Community Member
1 week ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"You're not asking me to give you a baby, you're asking me to give you my life." End of story. Family may not care, but considering the baby may not even survive either, that seems a good way to shut down the conversation. Then go no contact.

Janet L
Community Member
3 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What a shame you moved your whole life back near your insane and toxic “family” - you sound like you had it made living in another state. I would have arranged frequent visits but NEVER have moved back. I think you should get out from under ASAP before you, your child and husband are irreparably damaged by your unhinged and crazily demanding relatives.

TexasKatyDid
Community Member
6 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OP's sister has a lot of ego if she thinks someone she mistreated that badly would risk their life for her. She and the parents deserve to be humbled and publicly shamed!

SammiAntha
Community Member
6 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The entitlement of some people!! Mate, I'd tell your folks and sis to shove it where the sun don't shine, and if they need anything from you, to get stood on. Defs cut off contact from them if you haven't already!

Learner Panda
Community Member
7 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Next time the subject is raised simply say no. Change the subject. If they persist, say that the answer has not changed. Try again. Say no. Don't get into discussion. No is all you need.

Melissa anderson
Community Member
7 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Just another mentally ill family ( parents and sister) who abuse then want to use their victim. They don’t care if she dies just as long as they get their way.. Psychotic

AnimalLovingGirl
Community Member
7 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They were neglecting her since she was little and now they expect her to risk her own life for her ‘princess’ sister?

Aelin Wildfire
Community Member
7 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I would've gone along with it to the first consultation with the doctor, and then had the -doctor- tell them to their faces that they're out of their minds.

ConstantlyJon
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"We'd rather you died than not have a grandbaby we care about." Yeah okay.

The Starsong Princess
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Even if you were perfectly healthy and popped out babies like a pez dispenser, being a surrogate for your sister is a bad idea. These people are toxic, get as far away from them as possible.

Squirrelly Panda
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Even if she easily popped out babies and had a fantastic relationship with her sister, it's her right to say no to being a surrogate. Add on everything else, and there is less than zero reason to say yes.

Load More Replies...
Alex Boyd
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

A measly card, to announce that she is their surrogate? They should have at least given her a nice gift bag with a red dress and white bonnet. And an ID changing her name to "OfBrother-in-law's-name."

Mona
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Gosh, my family wants me to risk my life and I said no. AITA? /s

Bernd Herbert
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It may have been easier to tell them, that after her first pregnancy where she almost didn't make it, they decided that one kid was enough and she got a sterilization.

just me
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm kinda wondering why she didn't. Unless they're in the US, but in that case, I'm sure her husband would sign off on it.

Load More Replies...
elfin
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Your family is toxic. I found out that two of my siblings were unhealthy to be around, so I no longer have a relationship with either. It felt so good to make that decision. They had put me through a lot of stress and made me miserable. They will never get to do that again. I strongly advise you to cut them off. You have a lovely family of your own.

Adam Belaire
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Should've handed the card to OP's mother and say "I think this is meant for you"

Rostit.. .
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

this poor woman. How damaged must part of her be to even think she might be an a$$hole here. So not the AH

Tyke
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OP needs to reframe this entire story as "my family who treated me like dirt my entire life, want me to potentially die to give my sister a child. They would prefer my sister has a child and my son has no Mother". Or she should just ask them, in those words - "so you're happy for me to die, and your only grandchild to lose his parent in order for sister to get a baby, rather than adopt for example?". Also, I highly doubt any medical professional would allow insemination to go ahead, as she'd fail all the checks. Unless they expect her to sleep with her BIL... so many wrongs.

Ron Baza
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Give the parents and sister a pint of bleach each to drink. Hopefully they’ll be fine - “for your family, you’ve got to take risks”.

April Dancer
Community Member
7 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Okay, own up. Who voted for 'totally justified'? I sincerely hope you misread the question, because that is seriously messed up if you think there's no problem in telling - not asking - anyone to be your surrogate, let alone your sister who is likely to actually die, just because you think you have a right to have a child. Sorry to disillusion you, but, you really don't.

Guess Undheit
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Put aside the toxic "family" of black sheep and golden child, and put aside the OP's past medical issues during childbirth. This is STILL out of line. NOBODY has the "right" to rape her body and force her to give birth for someone else. They can adopt a kid if they want one, not the family rape and force her to give birth unwillingly. She should cut off all contact and file a restraining order against them.

CK
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Hypothetically, if there were someone whose doctor told them a miracle happened and they can have painless, risk free pregnancy and childbirth unlike any other human, it would still be too much to expect them to be a surrogate.

Chrissie Anit
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How on earth can any reasonable human think that they would be the AH in this situation?!?!?

Cecil
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Uh, she'd been abused all her life. Her parents complained to her face about having to pay for her health issues when she was young and living still living with them. That doesn't usually produce a confident adult. Hope that helped

Load More Replies...
Fox with a Dragon Tattoo
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

WTF did I just read... HARD NC with those sh*t stain filth that calls themselves her family.

brittany
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

no doctor would approve her for surrogacy. id honestly be petty AF and schedule the appointment, make them pay for the eval, and then rub it in their faces that OP isnt a candidate for surrogacy.

C W
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OP, protect your own child. He's at risk of being kidnapped by your 'family'. Be careful.

InfiniteZeek
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Um.....f**k the medical stuff. If I were the epitome of health, I would still tell these people to f**k right off.

Granny's Thoughts
Community Member
8 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Your parents actually think they are entitled to tell you to lend your body for 9+ months to a sister who has made your life miserable? Hell No. Let them find and pay for a professional surrogate.

LazyKitten
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Oh my god- go NC asap and leave that toxic hellhole behind. Take your grandparents and your family and run, girl, run. NTA all the way.

Epona
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm confused by the part of the comment mtndewbakablast made saying that OP should say to her sister "Seriously, your husband wants to cheat on you with me". I'm not super informed about surrogacy but I have seen the movie Baby Mama and when Dax Sheppard's character tells Tina Fey's character (Dax's character is the boyfriend of Amy Pohler's character, who is Tina's surrogate "My wife is gonna have sex with somebody else's husband to do this?". He misunderstood. I don't think surrogacy necessarily always involves cheating on your partner. Or even that often.

Lisa Barbeau
Community Member
7 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No doctor would approve her being a surrogate because of the health problems. The post you refer to had the same thought as me. These folks are crazy enough to suggest it as the alternative when the clinic says no.

Load More Replies...
Becca not Becky
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No way! Heart problems or not, you don't owe this to anyone for any reason, ESPECIALLY not someone who treated you poorly your entire life. Surrogacy is expensive, so they probably just wanted a free surrogate. If they want to talk about taking risks for family, then the sister can risk being sad her whole life about never being a mom if it means her sister is alive and healthy.

Nicole Mae
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Absolutely NTA. OP doesn't owe them her medical explanations either. I hope she's able to successfully go no contact ASAP.

KatSaidWhat
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Every once in a while I read something that makes my life feel Disney. Wtf.

DarkViolet
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

NTA. Your family is the worst I've seen in a long time. You need to go straight-up NC with these characters. You have nothing to justify to them; you owe them nothing, save a 2×4 upside their heads. Cut them off NOW; you have the life you deserve and don't need it contaminated by them.

Pamela Willson
Community Member
1 week ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"You're not asking me to give you a baby, you're asking me to give you my life." End of story. Family may not care, but considering the baby may not even survive either, that seems a good way to shut down the conversation. Then go no contact.

Janet L
Community Member
3 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What a shame you moved your whole life back near your insane and toxic “family” - you sound like you had it made living in another state. I would have arranged frequent visits but NEVER have moved back. I think you should get out from under ASAP before you, your child and husband are irreparably damaged by your unhinged and crazily demanding relatives.

TexasKatyDid
Community Member
6 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OP's sister has a lot of ego if she thinks someone she mistreated that badly would risk their life for her. She and the parents deserve to be humbled and publicly shamed!

SammiAntha
Community Member
6 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The entitlement of some people!! Mate, I'd tell your folks and sis to shove it where the sun don't shine, and if they need anything from you, to get stood on. Defs cut off contact from them if you haven't already!

Learner Panda
Community Member
7 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Next time the subject is raised simply say no. Change the subject. If they persist, say that the answer has not changed. Try again. Say no. Don't get into discussion. No is all you need.

Melissa anderson
Community Member
7 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Just another mentally ill family ( parents and sister) who abuse then want to use their victim. They don’t care if she dies just as long as they get their way.. Psychotic

AnimalLovingGirl
Community Member
7 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They were neglecting her since she was little and now they expect her to risk her own life for her ‘princess’ sister?

Aelin Wildfire
Community Member
7 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I would've gone along with it to the first consultation with the doctor, and then had the -doctor- tell them to their faces that they're out of their minds.

ConstantlyJon
Community Member
9 months ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"We'd rather you died than not have a grandbaby we care about." Yeah okay.

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