Now you are running up against money: mass public bathrooms are cheaper than individual washrooms. Besides, they did it to washrooms as well. And water fountains. And busses. You name the public accomodations, every one of them had a "coloreds/no coloreds" version. I hate using "slippery slope" arguments, because they are often simply "worst case scenario" speculation that rarely have any factual basis, but this is one that we have already seen in action before and it was horrible. If discrimination like this is allowed, bigots will take it too far.

People used the slippery slope argument against gay marriage and surprisingly nobody has legalised marrying anything other than consenting adults still.

I've never understood "being scared " as a defense for separate bathrooms. I've felt more scared with some of the cis people tbh. Plus most of the trans women I know are wonderful

You don't speak for me and mine.

So gross. You are the one making this all sexual.

JK isn't "asking questions". As a survivor of domestic violence she has simply stated, albeit vociferously, that biological women and girls need their own safe spaces. You have the right to disagree with her point of view and she can disagree with yours. Trans women who have had surgery and no longer have male genitalia are not the issue. Trans "women" who CHOOSE to keep their male genitalia are the issue. I would absofuckinlutely call out any "trans woman with intact male genitalia" in a women's changing room, exactly the same way I would call out any other "intact" male. Why? Because my 5 year old granddaughter is not going to be exposed to that in what is supposed to be a safe space. SHE does not deserve to be subjected to what, in current law, is the crime of indecent exposure. It's no different to some "dirty pervert" flashing his genitalia outside a kindy/nursery/school then claiming "I identify as a woman". Get rid of your male genitalia FIRST if you want to be taken seriously.

I was a patient on a psych ward for a few days years ago. Two people in each room, men on one side of the ward and women on the other side with the nurses office in between. I was sharing a room with a annoying older woman who was having psychotic episodes and screaming at me and trying to hit me and the staff didn't do anything. I the room next to me was a young woman, no older than 20 and she was quiet like a mouse and didn't speak to anyone. I asked if I could move into her room and the staff said no, someone was about to be admitted that was going to be put in her room. I sat in the hallway across from the locked door to the ward and watching who came in. Guy, about 6ft 6, with a full beard and a dress came in and they were calling this person Rachel. They went into the office for a short while then I watched them take them into the same room as the young woman. I was like eh what is going on?! I told off for being transphobic.... Young woman seemed absolutely terrified of this

While I disagree that you can compare trans women to a flasher, I agree that it is the victims of severe abuse from men who have a greater need for space. The tiny minority of men who are violent dont wear signs, victims have to keep men at arms length until they can be sure they are safe.

Which validates what JK has said and is still saying. Trans women with male genitalia should not be in women's spaces.

While I agree with what you're saying on a conceptual level, on a practical level that seems unlikely. It's solved simply by having only stalls rather than urinals in a mixed bathroom. I wouldn't expect a guy to walk out of a stall in a bathroom with his junk hanging out, nor would I expect a woman or any trans-variants either. So it's not really a valid argument.

I'm talking about open changing rooms not toilets.

Well said. Thank you for saying what we're thinking.

Having a 5 yr old in a dressing room is inappropriate period. Exposing her to naked breasts and vaginas is no better than a penis. Either way, you are willingly exposing her to the genetalia of strangers. Just b/c said stranger has the same equipment as the child shouldn't and doesn't make a difference. Same concept.

I can't help but wonder if you're aware of a couple of points. First one is the sheer cost of "bottom surgery". Most trans people can't afford to have it. Second one is that bottom surgery very easily leads to loss of sensation downstairs. Not usually in a toilet kind of way, but the fun kind of way. Trans folks who enjoy that kind of fun like to make sure they can keep having that kind of fun. It's nothing to do with indecent exposure or anything. A trans person changing at the gym is no different from anyone else changing at the gym, and doesn't deserve your vitriol just because they have a different set of genitalia.

So you're saying that a child should simply accept seeing male genitalia in what is, essentially, a space for women? A person's sex life has zero to do with a female child's right to not be exposed to male genitalia. If that's your belief then perhaps we should do away with separate changing rooms altogether and everyone can all get naked together. My "vitriol" is about protecting innocent children and if my believing that children need safe spaces pisses you or anyone else off - tough. If it makes me a "TERF" I'll wear that badge with pride.

What is it you are so afraid of these children seeing? That people have different body types? Most kids already know that. Seeing a pénis not going to scar a child for life. Painting trans women as séx pests or pædøphiles just because they're changing at the gym, on the other hand, is extremely damaging.

What am I afraid of? Children being unable to differentiate between a trans woman with male genitalia exposed in a supposedly safe space and another adult male exposing their genitalia as a form of sexual abuse. Are you going to try to explain the difference between the two in a way a child will understand? What is damaging is the expectation that trans women with male genitalia should be allowed to expose themselves to children in what should be a safe space. Exposing children to different body types is up to their parents not the defenders of trans rights. Child victims of male sexual abuse should never be exposed to this under any circumstances.

Whereas it's fine for male children who've been abused by men to be "exposed to this", or female children who've been abused by women? That argument just doesn't hold up.

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They are just a disgusting pedo. They won't EVER get a chance to expose themselves to my babies. Ever. They want to see little girls in a state of undress or in shower because they are disgusting pigs. F**k them.

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You are a f*****g groomer. If ANYONE flashes my babies they will be dealt with forcefully. You must like children a lot, you sick f*****g chester. F**k you.

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Sit down. Who cares if some man can't afford to get chopped off. Not my problem. If you're waving what you have in front of me you will be leaving. Don't even think about getting near my babies, you f*****g pedophile.

Wow. Classy. Completely anti-trans, by referring to them as men. At least you're showing your stripes, I suppose.

Everything in the world works "up to a certain point" and using edge cases is not a valid counterpoint. That would be like me saying some adults are pedophiles so we shouldn't allow them in schools. Locker rooms can get privacy dividers, and toilet stalls have locking doors. You're saying a very small minority of a population may have bad intent, so we should ban all of them. Can you not see a hundred relevant similar cases in recent history? And, not for nothing, but if a "big bloke" pretended to be trans so he could set records Fox news would never shut up about it. Also, calling the person in your lock room scenario a he is also transphobic. Again, challenge yourself to be accepting

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But what you're describing is the minority to the extreme in an already marginalized group! Those people are abusing the few, hard won rights of *actual* trans people & should they get to dictate policy and protection for the rest of the group?

Every group of people is always judged by the actions of its worst representatives. There are men who would be awesome caretakers, but most people would be hesitant to hire a man to care for children in a kindergarten, for example, and there's no telling "but not all men who love children are pedo weirdos".

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Nah, and you're an it.