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Dad Adds Meat To Vegan Kids’ Diets On Doctor’s Advice, Sparks Custody Battle With Furious Ex
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Dad Adds Meat To Vegan Kids’ Diets On Doctor’s Advice, Sparks Custody Battle With Furious Ex

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When a father and a mother have different lifestyles and parenting philosophies, raising kids can become a battleground for control, especially after divorce.

In a recent Reddit post, a father explained that he had been concerned over the health and growth of his three vegan sons. So after taking them to the doctor, he ultimately decided to introduce meat into their diets.

However, his ex-wife, a staunch vegan herself, was furious, accusing him of cruelty and threatening to change their custody arrangement.

This dad was concerned about the possible side effects his sons suffered from following a vegan diet

Image credits: freepik (not the actual photo)

So he took them to the doctor without telling his ex-wife about it

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Image credits: namii9 (not the actual photo)

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Image credits: ThrowRA-Vegan876

Generally, kids following a vegan diet are shorter but that doesn’t mean they won’t grow taller during their teenage years

A growing child needs specific nutrients for each developmental stage. The consequences can be dangerous if those are missed, especially for younger children. Their food needs to be particularly nutrient- and energy-dense because their portions are smaller.

In 2021, a study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition compared the health outcomes of vegan, vegetarian, and omnivorous diets in Polish children aged 5-10 years. The study recruited 63 vegetarians, 52 vegans, and 72 omnivores – the latter eating a diverse diet that included meat and dairy.

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This is the largest study of its kind ever performed specifically in vegan children of this age; the first that recruited (over) 50 participants in each plant-based diet group and compared them to carefully matched omnivores.

The study identified both good and bad points for vegan kids. In comparison to their omnivore peers, the vegan children were leaner and had better markers of cardiovascular risk, such as lower blood cholesterol. This could contribute to their lowering of heart disease later in life. But they were, indeed, shorter and had lower bone mass than expected for their age.

While vegan kids were 3cm (1.2in) shorter on average, it didn’t mean that they were stunted in growth or would always stay short, says Jonathan Wells, professor of anthropology and pediatric nutrition at University College London’s Great Ormond Street Institute of Child Health and co-author of the study.

“Vegan kids had less fat mass, and tended to weigh less. It’s possible that they would reach puberty a little later. We’ve seen that children who reach puberty later actually extended their growing period because they grow for more years,” explains Wells. So there was a potential for these kids to grow taller as adults.

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“The bone reaches its optimal density by the early 20s. And so, if you don’t build bone density at the time, you’re not going to be able to do that later,” Wells adds. People who have lower bone mineral density in adulthood will feel its impacts in older age, making them more vulnerable to diseases like osteoporosis as bones slowly grow more brittle.

“So vegan diets may have changed the profile of a disease that people are more at risk to as they age,” says Wells. “Instead of cardiovascular disease [heart disease], they may be prone to bone disease (weaker bones). But it’s not like they’re unhealthy now.”

Another interesting finding was that the vegetarian children tended to eat more junk food like pizza and soft drinks – a reminder that a vegetarian diet doesn’t in itself guarantee a healthy, balanced menu. As might be expected, omnivores had the highest estimated intake of protein, and vegans had the lowest – but vegetarians had the highest estimated intake of calcium. (Vegans, it turns out, had the lowest).

The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics in the US states that well-planned vegetarian and vegan diets are appropriate for all life stages, including pregnancy, infancy, and childhood. But it also adds that vegans need to ensure they take vitamin B12, be it in the form of supplements or fortified foods.

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In the study, however, nearly a third of children on either vegetarian or vegan diets were not having any B12 supplements or B12–fortified foods.

The bottom line is that without having all the doctor’s reports and other details, it’s incredibly difficult to judge the dad’s decision. Hopefully, he and his ex will eventually find a way to provide their children with diets that will meet their personal needs.

Image credits: YuriArcursPeopleimages (not the actual photo)

As people reacted to the story, its author started answering their questions

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Some said the father did nothing wrong

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Others, however, accused him of overstepping and disregarding his ex-wife’s beliefs

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Rokas Laurinavičius

Rokas Laurinavičius

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Rokas is a writer at Bored Panda with a BA in Communication. After working for a sculptor, he fell in love with visual storytelling and enjoys covering everything from TV shows (any Sopranos fans out there?) to photography. Throughout his years in Bored Panda, over 300 million people have read the posts he's written, which is probably more than he could count to.

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Rokas Laurinavičius

Rokas Laurinavičius

Writer, BoredPanda staff

Rokas is a writer at Bored Panda with a BA in Communication. After working for a sculptor, he fell in love with visual storytelling and enjoys covering everything from TV shows (any Sopranos fans out there?) to photography. Throughout his years in Bored Panda, over 300 million people have read the posts he's written, which is probably more than he could count to.

Justinas Keturka

Justinas Keturka

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I'm the Visual Editor at Bored Panda, responsible for ensuring that everything our audience sees is top-notch and well-researched. What I love most about my job? Discovering new things about the world and immersing myself in exceptional photography and art.

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Justinas Keturka

Justinas Keturka

Author, BoredPanda staff

I'm the Visual Editor at Bored Panda, responsible for ensuring that everything our audience sees is top-notch and well-researched. What I love most about my job? Discovering new things about the world and immersing myself in exceptional photography and art.

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Katey Doll
Community Member
5 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is like when vegans try to put dogs and cats on a vegan diet. It doesn't work. A balanced diet for children is essential.

tori Ohno
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Cats go blind on vegan diets. People who do that should be arrested and charged with animal cruelty.

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G Bono
Community Member
5 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

When will some women realize the kids don't belong solely to them? Fathers have as many rights as the mothers. If OP was being vindictive, he probably would have fed them meat earlier. I'm not sure I believe the kids are shorter because of the vegan diet, but I don't have to, these are not my kids. I do think its important for kids to eat meat, especially at those ages, for protein and also to avoid them having to sneak to McDonald's with friends or feel different from friends (About a Boy)

Thanos'Fingers
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

People are what they eat. This is why we have so many vegetables running the world now.

Load More Replies...
KatSaidWhat
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Why did I read an article with vegan in the title knowing it was always going to be an argument in the comments...

Papa
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I didn't read all the replies above, but I noticed the one that accused OP of xenophobia and said he needed to learn to cook with new ingredients. I know some people seem to go around looking for bigotry of one kind or another in every situation, but I thought it was really a reach to use it in this case.

Jane Doe
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

and then someone told him how vegan food is cheaper. Comments were ALL over the place.

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Debby Keir
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Ok, so when the child is born, you breastfeed - it's milk. If you don't then it's bottle feed with soya milk. *https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/bottle-feeding/types-of-formula/* which states it's only suitable from 6 months old. Your breast milk, is 'animal milk' (yes, albeit yours) so why TF are you so against? Vegetarians have lived healthily for millennia, but if you have to take pills every day, how is that a healthy diet? I know many are Vegan, and good luck to you, but please don't force this on babies and kids. Vegetarian is a much better middle way.

brandyy17
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

my friend refused to breastfeed wen she had her daughter. she used coconut milk and soy milk from the moment her daughter was born. i commented all about my friends daughters situation.

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Nimitz
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Lol, a parent thinks they can control a kid's diet? They're 11, 9, and 7 and very soon they'll be eating whatever the hell they want during their teenage years. She's in for a 2nd very rude awakening soon.

LakotaWolf (she/her)
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

One of the happiest memories I have of elementary school was swapping lunch bits with my friends! You’d trade x thing from your lunch for y thing from your friend’s. It was great and we all loved it. One of our friends was Indian/Hindu and only had vegetarian lunches. Let’s just say there were many times he got half of one of our bologna sandwiches, etc XD

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Tonyah Mcanelly
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I am seeing alot of comments where the father should have discussed it with the wife. but in reading this when he did mention it to her she went off . I think that he is doing the right thing . he is slowly introducing it and it seems he is not forcing them to do anything .

Helena
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

He mentioned it after the fact. Not really discussing, that's informing. I did this, whether you're ok with it or not.

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tori Ohno
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

His ex is delusional. No judge is going to take children from their father because he doesn't follow "her" lifestyle choice. Any, and all doctors will argue that he's not harming the kids, so what's the problem?

Kit Black
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Divorce happens when 2 people can't agree anymore. Trying to hold ~what we did when we were married~ as the mandate after the divorce is pointless, and no judge will back that nonsense.

Angela C
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Barring serious medical issues requiring it a super strict, restrictive diet is not a good thing for a child. Kids should be introduced to a variety of foods, taught balance and moderation, and when they're old enough to decide for themselves and understand the nutritional benefits and drawbacks then vegetarianism or veganism can be considered. But it shouldn't be forced on a young child. Dad is NTA. If mom wants them to only eat vegan when they're with her that's one thing, but when they're not with her it's not her call

Elizabeth Isahore
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think you are NTA and it is totally reasonable that your kids share your dietary choices when they are with you. A vegan diet done right with supplementation as needed can achieve adequate nutritional intake, but it takes knowledge and commitment--and may be hard to achieve for kids if they are picky eaters at all. I would be on the lookout for your ex choosing to manipulate the kids into veganism again by exposing them to pictures/ videos of animal slaughter or maltreatment. Not denying that this exists, but not appropriate for young kids to see. My sister encountered this type of aggressive pressure as a young teenager from the militant vegan parents of a friend while playing at their home.

Papa
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is slightly off the subject, but I noticed that one of the replies above seemed surprised that people get regular medical checkups, and said doctors in their country wouldn't do them. I had never heard of that before. At my job our insurance company encourages us to get yearly checkups by making them free, and it can even help reduce the monthly premiums. They understand that early detection is a good thing, and regular checkups can often detect problems in the early stages, when treatment is often more successful (and less expensive). I'm pretty sure this is common in the US.

Matthew Famolare
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I mostly wish people would stop giving their kids such stupid names.

DrBronxx
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well, he should have talked to his wife about it first, at least to inform her of what he's doing, but he's doing the right thing by his kids, and that's the most important thing. The YTAs, as they often are on BP, are ridiculous. One commenter dismissing his own change in diet saying he did it "for some reason", and one calling him an uneducated AH. He laid out his reasons really clearly, and he didn't change *anything* in his kids' diets before consulting a medical professional. After that, he was acting on that medical professional's advice.

brandyy17
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

i fully believe it is the childs choice on how they eat. however i believe it should b after a certain age. my friend and her husband r both vegan and bc they didnt listen to doctors their daughter has many health issues. my friends own parents who r not vegan called cps bc their daughter was in a state that made her look sickly. in the end my friends daughter ended up living with her grandparents and my friend and her husband only have visitation rights. my friends daughter is now much healthier but still has some medical issues due to years of not getting proper nutrition at a very early age. their daughter is now 13 and every holiday they try to tell her not to eat things that arent vegan. she ignores them every time bc she is listening to her doctors and grandparents. im her god mother and at the time i was in no condition to take over as guardian which is y her grandparents have her. i told them wat was going on and asked them to help their grand daughter in any way they can. they tried talking to my friend and her husband but they refused to listen. and before ppl get angry and say i was wrong to butt in even if i was her god mother i want u to kno multiple doctors said if her diet continued on the current path her body would b so weak she could actually die young. i learned that wen my friends daughter was born she never gave her formula or breast milk she gave her daughter stuff like coconut milk or soy milk instead. instead of proper baby food she mash up tofu and mix random fruits into it. basically her daughter never had a proper healthy meal from birth to the age of 6. my friend stopped talking to me wen she found out i was involved. well stopped talking to me after calling me every horrible name in the dictionary first and just verbally abusing me wenever she got the chance for 2 weeks. i have been staying in contact with my friends daughter, i go to every bday party and have baked her a bday cake of her choice every time, i see her often, send her christmas gifts and help out where ever i can. she asked me to b in her life as much as i can and i promised i would and plan to keep that promise. i dont blame the OP for being nervous and going against venus's wishes. if his kids decide to b vegan/vegitarian in the future thats fine as long as the get the nutrition they need while they r still growing kids. i dont judge ppl if they have different diets but if its a risk to a childs life then i have an issue. if i remember correctly my friend made her dog and cat have vegan diets too and cat ran off wen it got the oppertunity and her dog didnt live long. her cat was found but wen my friend was told the cat had been hunting mice in someones garage she told them to keep the cat bc it was no longer vegan. my friend wasnt always like this. i remember going to her family bbqs and having competetions on who can eat a burger faster. she went vegan during college and became obssessed and strict about it. idk wat exactly changed her.

Donna Peluda
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Why do people do this to there kids. It's almost worse then forcing your superstitions on them. give the kids the info and let them choose.

n75mk9nk2n
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

'Doctors orders' used to carry some authority. Respect your medical professionals, people. They've earned that much and more.

Mark Childers
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I've been a vegetarian for 36 years, and honestly it's so easy I wouldn't consider going back. I automatically eliminate most of menus, I love salads and sandwiches, so I'm good. I tried to be vegan, but my stomach couldn't take it no matter what I ate, so I included eggs and butter again. Always hated milk, even as a baby, according to my mother.

Susy Hammond
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Just thinking about how fraught things are with separated parents. It's food, it's religion, it's political, it's medical (vaccinate or not, vitamins, fluouride). When I divorced in 1980 I just wanted my ex to feel free to visit and get visits, but since he had a d**g/alcohol problem, physical custody was with me.

Seedy Vine
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OP your ex is starving your children. Forced restrictive diets are abusive. Please don't give in and continue to do what's best for the health of your kids.

Tonyah Mcanelly
Community Member
3 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I dodnt think shes being abusive in the article he said thats how she was raised so thats probably what she knows.

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The_Nicest_Misanthrope
Community Member
3 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No shade to vegans (my brother is a vegan), but forcing a vegan diet onto growing children who have no concept of nutrition (or ability to say no) is unbelievably dangerous and ignorant

Helena
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Vegan, not vegan, whatever. I'd be willing to bet he went to the doctor, presented his 'concerns' and said something like 'don't you think they should be eating meat' doc just went with it, and now it's a doctor recommended diet that he can use in court proceedings or other gotcha tactics. Making the ex wife out to be some kind of radical nutter is abuse 101. He was fine with it for years while married. He's just looking to stick it to her.

Jaya
Community Member
4 days ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

According to the most important organisation for dietitians, which creates the food guidelines for American dietitians, a vegan diet is healthy and safe for all ages, including kids. It's sad that so many people here on BP don't look at actual science, but just assume it can't be healthy because they were raised with the belief that you need meat or dairy/eggs. You do need to follow the vegan food guidelines though, to make sure you/your kids get all the nutrients they need, this parent clearly wasn't doing that.

LakotaWolf (she/her)
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Veganism is a moral/ethical choice and the children should be allowed to choose to follow it or not. It is currently being forced onto these three children. That’s very unethical. As an aside, humans are naturally omnivores. Just because a vegan diet CAN be healthy and safe doesn’t mean it’s CORRECT for human beings.

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Bookworm
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Both parents are terrible. The time to decide on the diet and find out what health effects to watch for was 12 years ago. Unbelievable that they've been in the 5-15% and neither parent asked if they needed to do anything different. Assuming they're just small instead of talking to the doctor who is right there is negligent. He also should have informed her what the doctor said and what he was going to do beforehand. This makes it sound like he did after the fact. I also think this is weaponizing their health against her. It was fine not to check when they were together. Now that they're not he's adding meat without telling her when he started. These poor kids.

Schmebulock
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I feel bad for the kids with two terrible parents and having to live with those s**t names!

Papa
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The quotation marks indicate that those are not the real names, which is commonly done to preserve privacy in posts like this one.

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LillieMean
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Getting the necessary amino acids from vegan food is not a secret science. Today I made whole wheat pasta and tomato sauce with soy crumbs. Pasta does not have lysine and threonine, but soy does. By combining, you can easily get the necessary amino acids. Beans & rice together contain the necessary amino acids. Those fancy meat imitations are expensive and often contain too much salt and hard fat, and nutritionists don't recommend them as part of your daily diet. Rather, I would ask if the boys have definitely received the recommended amount of vegetables (here it is 800 grams per day). I personally try to follow the traffic light recommendation, i.e. red, orange/yellow and green every day.

Roberta Surprenant
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OP never gave the age of his ex wife, considering how young he was when they got together I would be worried that she groomed him.

Isabella
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And this is why children [they were 15 when the oldest was born] should not have children. They were parenting before they had the chance to learn proper adulting skills and it shows.

Upstaged75
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Read it again - 15 when they MET. He's in his 30's now with kids that are 7, 9, and 11.

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RAM31280
Community Member
5 days ago

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

ESH, NTA for wanting the kids to get proper nutrition and be healthy. YTA for not giving the kids the option themselves. YTA for not co-parenting this such as not talking with ex about DR's recommendations.

neytjie
Community Member
5 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

He literally said it like 3 times, he did in fact talk to her. Perhaps you do not know how to read properly. He also says he discussed with the kids and they were excited to try new things. Milk, eggs etc

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Katey Doll
Community Member
5 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is like when vegans try to put dogs and cats on a vegan diet. It doesn't work. A balanced diet for children is essential.

tori Ohno
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Cats go blind on vegan diets. People who do that should be arrested and charged with animal cruelty.

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G Bono
Community Member
5 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

When will some women realize the kids don't belong solely to them? Fathers have as many rights as the mothers. If OP was being vindictive, he probably would have fed them meat earlier. I'm not sure I believe the kids are shorter because of the vegan diet, but I don't have to, these are not my kids. I do think its important for kids to eat meat, especially at those ages, for protein and also to avoid them having to sneak to McDonald's with friends or feel different from friends (About a Boy)

Thanos'Fingers
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

People are what they eat. This is why we have so many vegetables running the world now.

Load More Replies...
KatSaidWhat
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Why did I read an article with vegan in the title knowing it was always going to be an argument in the comments...

Papa
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I didn't read all the replies above, but I noticed the one that accused OP of xenophobia and said he needed to learn to cook with new ingredients. I know some people seem to go around looking for bigotry of one kind or another in every situation, but I thought it was really a reach to use it in this case.

Jane Doe
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

and then someone told him how vegan food is cheaper. Comments were ALL over the place.

Load More Replies...
Debby Keir
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Ok, so when the child is born, you breastfeed - it's milk. If you don't then it's bottle feed with soya milk. *https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/bottle-feeding/types-of-formula/* which states it's only suitable from 6 months old. Your breast milk, is 'animal milk' (yes, albeit yours) so why TF are you so against? Vegetarians have lived healthily for millennia, but if you have to take pills every day, how is that a healthy diet? I know many are Vegan, and good luck to you, but please don't force this on babies and kids. Vegetarian is a much better middle way.

brandyy17
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

my friend refused to breastfeed wen she had her daughter. she used coconut milk and soy milk from the moment her daughter was born. i commented all about my friends daughters situation.

Load More Replies...
Nimitz
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Lol, a parent thinks they can control a kid's diet? They're 11, 9, and 7 and very soon they'll be eating whatever the hell they want during their teenage years. She's in for a 2nd very rude awakening soon.

LakotaWolf (she/her)
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

One of the happiest memories I have of elementary school was swapping lunch bits with my friends! You’d trade x thing from your lunch for y thing from your friend’s. It was great and we all loved it. One of our friends was Indian/Hindu and only had vegetarian lunches. Let’s just say there were many times he got half of one of our bologna sandwiches, etc XD

Load More Replies...
Tonyah Mcanelly
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I am seeing alot of comments where the father should have discussed it with the wife. but in reading this when he did mention it to her she went off . I think that he is doing the right thing . he is slowly introducing it and it seems he is not forcing them to do anything .

Helena
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

He mentioned it after the fact. Not really discussing, that's informing. I did this, whether you're ok with it or not.

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tori Ohno
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

His ex is delusional. No judge is going to take children from their father because he doesn't follow "her" lifestyle choice. Any, and all doctors will argue that he's not harming the kids, so what's the problem?

Kit Black
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Divorce happens when 2 people can't agree anymore. Trying to hold ~what we did when we were married~ as the mandate after the divorce is pointless, and no judge will back that nonsense.

Angela C
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Barring serious medical issues requiring it a super strict, restrictive diet is not a good thing for a child. Kids should be introduced to a variety of foods, taught balance and moderation, and when they're old enough to decide for themselves and understand the nutritional benefits and drawbacks then vegetarianism or veganism can be considered. But it shouldn't be forced on a young child. Dad is NTA. If mom wants them to only eat vegan when they're with her that's one thing, but when they're not with her it's not her call

Elizabeth Isahore
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think you are NTA and it is totally reasonable that your kids share your dietary choices when they are with you. A vegan diet done right with supplementation as needed can achieve adequate nutritional intake, but it takes knowledge and commitment--and may be hard to achieve for kids if they are picky eaters at all. I would be on the lookout for your ex choosing to manipulate the kids into veganism again by exposing them to pictures/ videos of animal slaughter or maltreatment. Not denying that this exists, but not appropriate for young kids to see. My sister encountered this type of aggressive pressure as a young teenager from the militant vegan parents of a friend while playing at their home.

Papa
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is slightly off the subject, but I noticed that one of the replies above seemed surprised that people get regular medical checkups, and said doctors in their country wouldn't do them. I had never heard of that before. At my job our insurance company encourages us to get yearly checkups by making them free, and it can even help reduce the monthly premiums. They understand that early detection is a good thing, and regular checkups can often detect problems in the early stages, when treatment is often more successful (and less expensive). I'm pretty sure this is common in the US.

Matthew Famolare
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I mostly wish people would stop giving their kids such stupid names.

DrBronxx
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well, he should have talked to his wife about it first, at least to inform her of what he's doing, but he's doing the right thing by his kids, and that's the most important thing. The YTAs, as they often are on BP, are ridiculous. One commenter dismissing his own change in diet saying he did it "for some reason", and one calling him an uneducated AH. He laid out his reasons really clearly, and he didn't change *anything* in his kids' diets before consulting a medical professional. After that, he was acting on that medical professional's advice.

brandyy17
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

i fully believe it is the childs choice on how they eat. however i believe it should b after a certain age. my friend and her husband r both vegan and bc they didnt listen to doctors their daughter has many health issues. my friends own parents who r not vegan called cps bc their daughter was in a state that made her look sickly. in the end my friends daughter ended up living with her grandparents and my friend and her husband only have visitation rights. my friends daughter is now much healthier but still has some medical issues due to years of not getting proper nutrition at a very early age. their daughter is now 13 and every holiday they try to tell her not to eat things that arent vegan. she ignores them every time bc she is listening to her doctors and grandparents. im her god mother and at the time i was in no condition to take over as guardian which is y her grandparents have her. i told them wat was going on and asked them to help their grand daughter in any way they can. they tried talking to my friend and her husband but they refused to listen. and before ppl get angry and say i was wrong to butt in even if i was her god mother i want u to kno multiple doctors said if her diet continued on the current path her body would b so weak she could actually die young. i learned that wen my friends daughter was born she never gave her formula or breast milk she gave her daughter stuff like coconut milk or soy milk instead. instead of proper baby food she mash up tofu and mix random fruits into it. basically her daughter never had a proper healthy meal from birth to the age of 6. my friend stopped talking to me wen she found out i was involved. well stopped talking to me after calling me every horrible name in the dictionary first and just verbally abusing me wenever she got the chance for 2 weeks. i have been staying in contact with my friends daughter, i go to every bday party and have baked her a bday cake of her choice every time, i see her often, send her christmas gifts and help out where ever i can. she asked me to b in her life as much as i can and i promised i would and plan to keep that promise. i dont blame the OP for being nervous and going against venus's wishes. if his kids decide to b vegan/vegitarian in the future thats fine as long as the get the nutrition they need while they r still growing kids. i dont judge ppl if they have different diets but if its a risk to a childs life then i have an issue. if i remember correctly my friend made her dog and cat have vegan diets too and cat ran off wen it got the oppertunity and her dog didnt live long. her cat was found but wen my friend was told the cat had been hunting mice in someones garage she told them to keep the cat bc it was no longer vegan. my friend wasnt always like this. i remember going to her family bbqs and having competetions on who can eat a burger faster. she went vegan during college and became obssessed and strict about it. idk wat exactly changed her.

Donna Peluda
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Why do people do this to there kids. It's almost worse then forcing your superstitions on them. give the kids the info and let them choose.

n75mk9nk2n
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

'Doctors orders' used to carry some authority. Respect your medical professionals, people. They've earned that much and more.

Mark Childers
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I've been a vegetarian for 36 years, and honestly it's so easy I wouldn't consider going back. I automatically eliminate most of menus, I love salads and sandwiches, so I'm good. I tried to be vegan, but my stomach couldn't take it no matter what I ate, so I included eggs and butter again. Always hated milk, even as a baby, according to my mother.

Susy Hammond
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Just thinking about how fraught things are with separated parents. It's food, it's religion, it's political, it's medical (vaccinate or not, vitamins, fluouride). When I divorced in 1980 I just wanted my ex to feel free to visit and get visits, but since he had a d**g/alcohol problem, physical custody was with me.

Seedy Vine
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OP your ex is starving your children. Forced restrictive diets are abusive. Please don't give in and continue to do what's best for the health of your kids.

Tonyah Mcanelly
Community Member
3 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I dodnt think shes being abusive in the article he said thats how she was raised so thats probably what she knows.

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The_Nicest_Misanthrope
Community Member
3 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No shade to vegans (my brother is a vegan), but forcing a vegan diet onto growing children who have no concept of nutrition (or ability to say no) is unbelievably dangerous and ignorant

Helena
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Vegan, not vegan, whatever. I'd be willing to bet he went to the doctor, presented his 'concerns' and said something like 'don't you think they should be eating meat' doc just went with it, and now it's a doctor recommended diet that he can use in court proceedings or other gotcha tactics. Making the ex wife out to be some kind of radical nutter is abuse 101. He was fine with it for years while married. He's just looking to stick it to her.

Jaya
Community Member
4 days ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

According to the most important organisation for dietitians, which creates the food guidelines for American dietitians, a vegan diet is healthy and safe for all ages, including kids. It's sad that so many people here on BP don't look at actual science, but just assume it can't be healthy because they were raised with the belief that you need meat or dairy/eggs. You do need to follow the vegan food guidelines though, to make sure you/your kids get all the nutrients they need, this parent clearly wasn't doing that.

LakotaWolf (she/her)
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Veganism is a moral/ethical choice and the children should be allowed to choose to follow it or not. It is currently being forced onto these three children. That’s very unethical. As an aside, humans are naturally omnivores. Just because a vegan diet CAN be healthy and safe doesn’t mean it’s CORRECT for human beings.

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Bookworm
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Both parents are terrible. The time to decide on the diet and find out what health effects to watch for was 12 years ago. Unbelievable that they've been in the 5-15% and neither parent asked if they needed to do anything different. Assuming they're just small instead of talking to the doctor who is right there is negligent. He also should have informed her what the doctor said and what he was going to do beforehand. This makes it sound like he did after the fact. I also think this is weaponizing their health against her. It was fine not to check when they were together. Now that they're not he's adding meat without telling her when he started. These poor kids.

Schmebulock
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I feel bad for the kids with two terrible parents and having to live with those s**t names!

Papa
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The quotation marks indicate that those are not the real names, which is commonly done to preserve privacy in posts like this one.

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LillieMean
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Getting the necessary amino acids from vegan food is not a secret science. Today I made whole wheat pasta and tomato sauce with soy crumbs. Pasta does not have lysine and threonine, but soy does. By combining, you can easily get the necessary amino acids. Beans & rice together contain the necessary amino acids. Those fancy meat imitations are expensive and often contain too much salt and hard fat, and nutritionists don't recommend them as part of your daily diet. Rather, I would ask if the boys have definitely received the recommended amount of vegetables (here it is 800 grams per day). I personally try to follow the traffic light recommendation, i.e. red, orange/yellow and green every day.

Roberta Surprenant
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OP never gave the age of his ex wife, considering how young he was when they got together I would be worried that she groomed him.

Isabella
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And this is why children [they were 15 when the oldest was born] should not have children. They were parenting before they had the chance to learn proper adulting skills and it shows.

Upstaged75
Community Member
4 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Read it again - 15 when they MET. He's in his 30's now with kids that are 7, 9, and 11.

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RAM31280
Community Member
5 days ago

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ESH, NTA for wanting the kids to get proper nutrition and be healthy. YTA for not giving the kids the option themselves. YTA for not co-parenting this such as not talking with ex about DR's recommendations.

neytjie
Community Member
5 days ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

He literally said it like 3 times, he did in fact talk to her. Perhaps you do not know how to read properly. He also says he discussed with the kids and they were excited to try new things. Milk, eggs etc

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