“None Of Your Clothing Is Cruelty-Free”: Person Bursts The Myth Of Ethical Consumption Under Capitalism
According to a study by James Poore, an environmental researcher at the University of Oxford, the adoption of Veganuary (an annual challenge that promotes and educates about veganism by encouraging people to follow a vegan lifestyle for the month of January) in the UK alone is expected to have saved the atmosphere from the equivalent production of CO2 as 450,000 flights from London to Berlin, as well as 2.5 million litres (660,430 gallons) of water.
And that’s the impact of just 31 days. A more permanent adoption of veganism could, according to another study from the same university, be the “single biggest way” to reduce our impact on the environment, lowering an individual’s carbon footprint by 73 percent.
Such studies inspire people to not only adopt a vegan diet but change their entire lifestyle as well, including their fashion choices.
Sustainable fashion is on the increase (searches are up 75 percent year on year, according to global fashion search engine Lyst) and brands are searching for vegan alternatives in an attempt to deliver on this demand.
However, is vegan leather actually a cure for Earth? Not everyone thinks so.
While it can be made from more natural resources like pineapple leaves, cork, and apple peels, it is most often produced from two different plastic polymers; polyurethane (PU) and polyvinyl chloride (PVC) which are so popular due to their wrinkled texture, giving the effect of real leather, according to PETA.
A recent Twitter thread by user Shepherd dives deeper into the topic, raising the question: Is ethical consumption possible under capitalism at all?
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ADVERTISEMENTImage credits: NeolithicSheep
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Here’s what other people said on the issue
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I'm a Visual Editor at Bored Panda since 2017. I've searched through a multitude of images to create over 2000 diverse posts on a wide range of topics. I love memes, funny, and cute stuff, but I'm also into social issues topics. Despite my background in communication, my heart belongs to visual media, especially photography. When I'm not at my desk, you're likely to find me in the streets with my camera, checking out cool exhibitions, watching a movie at the cinema or just chilling with a coffee in a cozy place
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Rokas is a writer at Bored Panda with a BA in Communication. After working for a sculptor, he fell in love with visual storytelling and enjoys covering everything from TV shows (any Sopranos fans out there?) to photography. Throughout his years in Bored Panda, over 300 million people have read the posts he's written, which is probably more than he could count to.
One of the vegan arguments is that sheep farmers would cruelly rip the wool including skin off of the animals, basically skinning them alive. As if farmers would deliberately kill their livelyhood... This is about as intelligent as saying farmers kill their cows every morning in order to get to the milk...
PETA? The guys that deliberately kills healthy animals because of not wanting to spend the money to host them for too long in rescue shelters? The guys that rain down on capitalist behaviours, yet pays their bosses heft wages? like this? https://realfacesofanimalrights.com/peta/wages-overhead-costs-exposed/
Chris Sprucefield, why don't you confront Peta directly??? If I was Peta I would take you to the court, but that would cost money they want to spent on helping animals. By the way, how many animals did you saved???? Despicable trash you are spreading around.
Actually they did. As usual, and as intended, there was a lot of controversy about the ad.
Yes, Patsey, PETA and numerous other animal protection organizations, they have undercover investigators on the ground and they documented all that horrific abuse the greedy, heartless industries do to innocent, sentient animals. If only you cared to find out the truth and stop attacking all those brave, selfless, extraordinary people who fight against animal cruelty!!! What have you done to help suffering animals??/ Oh, nothing, just attacking those who do.
I f*****g hate PETA but I've also seen footage of how abusives shearing can be, so it's very difficult to know how the wool that made it to your sweater was made
Any sheep shearer causes the sheep to have wound, he may not have job. The owners are very careful with their animals. It is not cheap to replace a 500 pound animal.
There are definitely bad people out there but any good farmer would know that abusing their animals is not the way to go
Chaotic-Pansexual-Gemini, when it comes to generating profits there are NOT farmers who see their animals as sentient, innocent beings; for farmers the way to go is to desensitize themselves and see their live"stock" solely as profitable things. If you were involved in any, including farm animal, protection fights, you would be horrified... I hope.
You really need to have a long hard look at how YOU are exploiting sentient beings - it's their hard work that's producing your vegan food.
I f*****g hate you, Doreen for you f*****g hating Peta. And look.... your comment was down-voted for telling the truth about how immensely sheep suffer at the hands of the cruel wool industry ......for telling the truth and that I appreciate tremendously.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
That makes me want to do the thing more.
Maybe not deliberately, but sheep are handled extremely roughly during shearing and they can and do get injured in the process. Like everything it's not black and white. And while most vegans would agree that sheep need to be sheared, most would prefer not to buy anything that supports animal farming in any way. The goal of the vegans is the end of animal farming altogether. I am making no comment on the wisdom or likelihood of that happening, but that is why the 'but they need to be sheared anyway/leather is a by-product' argument doesn't hold water with most vegans. Cue my downvotes, which happens every time I make comments about veganism!
Then the argument should be for more careful sheering. Most problems with animal products is using the animals as products rather than spending a little more time and money to treat them as valued living creatures.
There are plenty of natural, cruelty free materials, Stil20. "If the world went vegan: we would free up land the size of Africa and need only 20 % of it to feed 8 billion herbivores." .... now, add to it land used by the industries which use animals to produce clothing materials. That land used by live"stock" for any kind of cruel exploitation, is stolen from wildlife - the destruction of wild lands is resulting in emergence of deadly, ever more potent, viruses and bacteria. We need the natural lands, untouched by human, destructive, cruel activities to survive!!!!!! That means humanity needs to come to its senses, get in possession of conscience and stop human overpopulation and urban sprawl.
That will NEVER happen, Stille20. Cruelty must be put out of bussines, that's the only way.
So the end result would be domesticated sheep breeds going extinct over time, which, okay fine. Or, do we reverse breed to breed out the wool-producing properties that we bred into the sheep over the centuries, till the sheeps can be wild again?
@H Edwards, are you by any chance has a farm or working in a farm? Simple curiosity
What about the wool/fleeces/fur from other farmed animals or environmental pest animals?
If all animal farming stopped today, the end result would be the extinction of most living things due to methane from cows.
What the hell are you talking about Nathan Jones???? Methane pollution is a climate killer!!!!!! Animal agriculture is a major contributor to our planet's most significant environmental threats, greater than industrial and car pollution combined. If all animal farming stopped today, the end result would be the significantly cleaner, livable planet Earth!!!! The more clean, breathable air!! The clean, drinkable water!!! The healthy soil!!!
Thank you so much for your comment, H Edwards!! Wow, you got up-voted!!! That's something, something positive for suffering animals, for our earth, and for us humans alike. By the way, why do people need to wear leather clothing at all, especially the skin of heinously tortured and unimaginably painfully murdered animals??? I don't get it. There are plenty of materials from plant sources.
For God's sake woman, grow up. The way you carry on, you're going to burst a blood vessel. Plant materials require - using your logic here. - the exploitation of sentient beings to pollinate, fertilisers to grow, pesticides to protect crops. Arable farming uses living sentient creatures to provide crops for profit.
Seriously. When was the last time anyone ripped the skin off their scalp using clippers? The answer is never. It isn’t even possible. So there are vegans who are making an argument without understanding the process they’re arguing against. I’m not saying all vegans go off half-cocked like this, but the ones who do should do their homework first.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
They heal quickly, though.
Kathryn Baylis, you are the one who should do your homework!!! Seriously, if you were to use clippers to cut hair of as many heads as possible, many, many heads, and as fast as you could in order to earn more money, there would be many, many heads with ripped skins. Got it????
PETA faked a bunch of photos to make it look as if that's how wool is produced. But really, you can see sheep shearing videos anywhere that show what it's really like. It's a 10 minute haircut, once a year.
Please Seabeast, stop those hateful comments, that's enough!!! There are comments on this site, people commenting about the cruelty of the wool industry they witnessed. You really are a hateful, despicable beast!!!! Why don't you attach your legitimate name to those hateful comments of yours??? Not so brave, are you, just a coward.
If you've ever seen a video of sheep being shorn, it doesn't exactly look nice and gentle.
As a New Zealander I just want to GROAN so loudly at this. No, it doesn't LOOK gentle, but you watch any qualified shearer and they never nick the skin, and they move quickly enough that the sheep has time to realize its on its back before it's free to go
I've watched many shearing competitions and am amazed at the speed at which sheep can be shorn without being torn to shreds. I've had the good fortune to watch a professional shearer in action at a fiber show. While he wasn't competition fast, he was quick and handled the sheep with care. None were nicked or cut in the process and the fleeces were auctioned off. I watched him shear four sheep. He ended up doing nearly 20 that day. Fiber fairs and shows are a good place to get raw fleeces to spin yourself. Often you'll get to see (and feel) the fleece before the sheep's been sheared. Of course, you can anything from clean fleeces to finished products as well, but it's quite educational to watch firsthand the shearing process.
I love going to shows like this! I had a spinning wheel that I really wanted to use but it was missing a crucial part :( my friend spins, though. She uses raw fleece as well as the fleece from the alpacas her parents own. Shearing a sheep is literally like getting a hair cut, it's not that scary, and it doesn't hurt them
Yes! They're fun and you meet interesting people that are dedicated to preserving fiber arts and a historical (with modern twists) way of life. If people would stop getting their info from crap sources like PETA and get it from actual farmers and shearers (or even their local county extension offices) they'd see it's not painful or scary. Sheep by nature are scared of everything because of being prey animals; but any sheep that's been sheared a few times knows the routine.
That's is a really good source to get information about cruelty to farm animals by the agricultural industry. "Thank" you for your crap "compassionate", "objective" advice, Teresa Taylor - you are going to the shows to have fun, it's not fun for animals!! The animal agriculture is not just cruel to farm animals, they are also responsible for destruction of our planet, more than any other industry.
It is scary to sheep in the wool industry, and NO, you would not want that hair cut!!!!
Oh, yea, sheep "like" that speed. To you Teresa Taylor it's all about products.
Yea, right, V33333P, it's so innocent, and sheep just love it; humans must own how cruel and destructive they are. So admit it!!!
The onse I've seen show relaxed, happy sheep that are enjoying to get the weight of for summer.
Yes, animals are use to cruelty, they are not relaxed, they are anxious what will happen to them next, how much will it hurt. If you want to see relaxed, happy farm animals go to any farm animal sanctuary, for god's sake.
Look up "mulesing", they totally do it. (I've watched it happen, I'm not from PETA.)
It does not matter, Ellie, your comment was down-voted anyway; there are many "good" people who just can't stand compassion to animals.
That's how it goes around here - any consideration of nonhuman animals is seen as offensive and paternalizing, while complaining about "preachy" vegans is an act of heroic self defense. You really gotta let that sink in: Someone complaining about being asked to take a look into what is caused by his/her consumerism because it may cause discomfort is a hero, while someone lending his/her voice to the exploited voiceless and helpless is being "entitled" and "self absorbed". If you're the majority, facts can be twisted until they support your stance - every time the industrial abuse of animals gets to be a topic here, you can see this happen as prototypeishly as if it were a performance to illustrate this....... It's not even the disagreeing that truly sucks, not at all...
"Intelligent" Miri Panda, the wool industry is a "shear" (sheer) cruelty!!!!! Get it to your ignorant, apathetic heads "gentle" people, for the sake of humaneness!!!! Sheep suffer immensely, they are treated inhumanely, cruelly!!! They do NOT get hair cuts!!!! Any animal which is raised to generate profits are unconscionably tortured and die in unspeakable agony!!! Get it to your callous brains, please!!!!
Also, leather lasts far longer than PVC. I had some PVC boots, lasted about a year, but leather boots can last more like 20 years. I think that it is far more sustainable to use a byproduct of the meat industry (that'll keep going for a good while yet), than plastic that needs replacing more often, and does not biodegrade.
And people can also get a lot of second-hand leather goods, if they don't want to buy new leather goods.
Load More Replies...The thought is that by buying second hand they are increasing the resale value for the items which contributes to them being more affordable and therefore more likely to be bought in the first place.
I haven't heard that complaint before about second hand goods. Not sure I agree. My current belt was a gift from a companion who was vegan before I was. It wasn't new; it was either a thrift store buy or some family member used to own it, so it didn't impact her ethical stance for it to be leather. It bothered her more if the material would go to waste. I suspect she'd buy a thrift store item that's leather, if it was a necessity of some kind.
I still have the Doc Martens I bought in college. I graduated in 1996
Ah, I loved mine; I wore them to death. My Vegetarian Shoes versions have lasted longer than my Doc Martens. They're made in the same factory (used to BE a Doc Marten factory). Granted, they're not as comfortable, but I am certain that is all about the soles, not the vegetable leather-alike.
Amelie C the pain and suffering your leather boots caused do not lasted as long.... the poor animal, whose skin you wearing, was murderer and died in unconscionable agony. Have fun. It's time to develop better cruelty-free materials.
My brother has a genuine leather jacket and he is a vegan. He has had it since before he became vegan but he won't throw it away coz it just wastes the animal. He may as well keep it since it has already been purchased, so is no longer contributing to the leather industry. He won't donate it coz why should he get rid of a perfectly good jacket that again has already been made, been paid for etc so why does it matter who wears it. I hope I'm making sense. He won't go out and buy leather anymore.
That's very reasonable and is the approach most vegans I know chose, too. Throwing stuff away won't help anything, while not buying it anymore sure does what it aims at.
Load More Replies...Same. I kept all of the non- vegan clothes I had before going vegan and now I only buy secondhand. It's not perfect but it's the best solution I have
I use my leather jacket almost 6 months per year. My mom bought it for me when I was 17yo. I’m turning 37 this year.
One of the vegan arguments is that sheep farmers would cruelly rip the wool including skin off of the animals, basically skinning them alive. As if farmers would deliberately kill their livelyhood... This is about as intelligent as saying farmers kill their cows every morning in order to get to the milk...
PETA? The guys that deliberately kills healthy animals because of not wanting to spend the money to host them for too long in rescue shelters? The guys that rain down on capitalist behaviours, yet pays their bosses heft wages? like this? https://realfacesofanimalrights.com/peta/wages-overhead-costs-exposed/
Chris Sprucefield, why don't you confront Peta directly??? If I was Peta I would take you to the court, but that would cost money they want to spent on helping animals. By the way, how many animals did you saved???? Despicable trash you are spreading around.
Actually they did. As usual, and as intended, there was a lot of controversy about the ad.
Yes, Patsey, PETA and numerous other animal protection organizations, they have undercover investigators on the ground and they documented all that horrific abuse the greedy, heartless industries do to innocent, sentient animals. If only you cared to find out the truth and stop attacking all those brave, selfless, extraordinary people who fight against animal cruelty!!! What have you done to help suffering animals??/ Oh, nothing, just attacking those who do.
I f*****g hate PETA but I've also seen footage of how abusives shearing can be, so it's very difficult to know how the wool that made it to your sweater was made
Any sheep shearer causes the sheep to have wound, he may not have job. The owners are very careful with their animals. It is not cheap to replace a 500 pound animal.
There are definitely bad people out there but any good farmer would know that abusing their animals is not the way to go
Chaotic-Pansexual-Gemini, when it comes to generating profits there are NOT farmers who see their animals as sentient, innocent beings; for farmers the way to go is to desensitize themselves and see their live"stock" solely as profitable things. If you were involved in any, including farm animal, protection fights, you would be horrified... I hope.
You really need to have a long hard look at how YOU are exploiting sentient beings - it's their hard work that's producing your vegan food.
I f*****g hate you, Doreen for you f*****g hating Peta. And look.... your comment was down-voted for telling the truth about how immensely sheep suffer at the hands of the cruel wool industry ......for telling the truth and that I appreciate tremendously.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
That makes me want to do the thing more.
Maybe not deliberately, but sheep are handled extremely roughly during shearing and they can and do get injured in the process. Like everything it's not black and white. And while most vegans would agree that sheep need to be sheared, most would prefer not to buy anything that supports animal farming in any way. The goal of the vegans is the end of animal farming altogether. I am making no comment on the wisdom or likelihood of that happening, but that is why the 'but they need to be sheared anyway/leather is a by-product' argument doesn't hold water with most vegans. Cue my downvotes, which happens every time I make comments about veganism!
Then the argument should be for more careful sheering. Most problems with animal products is using the animals as products rather than spending a little more time and money to treat them as valued living creatures.
There are plenty of natural, cruelty free materials, Stil20. "If the world went vegan: we would free up land the size of Africa and need only 20 % of it to feed 8 billion herbivores." .... now, add to it land used by the industries which use animals to produce clothing materials. That land used by live"stock" for any kind of cruel exploitation, is stolen from wildlife - the destruction of wild lands is resulting in emergence of deadly, ever more potent, viruses and bacteria. We need the natural lands, untouched by human, destructive, cruel activities to survive!!!!!! That means humanity needs to come to its senses, get in possession of conscience and stop human overpopulation and urban sprawl.
That will NEVER happen, Stille20. Cruelty must be put out of bussines, that's the only way.
So the end result would be domesticated sheep breeds going extinct over time, which, okay fine. Or, do we reverse breed to breed out the wool-producing properties that we bred into the sheep over the centuries, till the sheeps can be wild again?
@H Edwards, are you by any chance has a farm or working in a farm? Simple curiosity
What about the wool/fleeces/fur from other farmed animals or environmental pest animals?
If all animal farming stopped today, the end result would be the extinction of most living things due to methane from cows.
What the hell are you talking about Nathan Jones???? Methane pollution is a climate killer!!!!!! Animal agriculture is a major contributor to our planet's most significant environmental threats, greater than industrial and car pollution combined. If all animal farming stopped today, the end result would be the significantly cleaner, livable planet Earth!!!! The more clean, breathable air!! The clean, drinkable water!!! The healthy soil!!!
Thank you so much for your comment, H Edwards!! Wow, you got up-voted!!! That's something, something positive for suffering animals, for our earth, and for us humans alike. By the way, why do people need to wear leather clothing at all, especially the skin of heinously tortured and unimaginably painfully murdered animals??? I don't get it. There are plenty of materials from plant sources.
For God's sake woman, grow up. The way you carry on, you're going to burst a blood vessel. Plant materials require - using your logic here. - the exploitation of sentient beings to pollinate, fertilisers to grow, pesticides to protect crops. Arable farming uses living sentient creatures to provide crops for profit.
Seriously. When was the last time anyone ripped the skin off their scalp using clippers? The answer is never. It isn’t even possible. So there are vegans who are making an argument without understanding the process they’re arguing against. I’m not saying all vegans go off half-cocked like this, but the ones who do should do their homework first.
This comment is hidden. Click here to view.
They heal quickly, though.
Kathryn Baylis, you are the one who should do your homework!!! Seriously, if you were to use clippers to cut hair of as many heads as possible, many, many heads, and as fast as you could in order to earn more money, there would be many, many heads with ripped skins. Got it????
PETA faked a bunch of photos to make it look as if that's how wool is produced. But really, you can see sheep shearing videos anywhere that show what it's really like. It's a 10 minute haircut, once a year.
Please Seabeast, stop those hateful comments, that's enough!!! There are comments on this site, people commenting about the cruelty of the wool industry they witnessed. You really are a hateful, despicable beast!!!! Why don't you attach your legitimate name to those hateful comments of yours??? Not so brave, are you, just a coward.
If you've ever seen a video of sheep being shorn, it doesn't exactly look nice and gentle.
As a New Zealander I just want to GROAN so loudly at this. No, it doesn't LOOK gentle, but you watch any qualified shearer and they never nick the skin, and they move quickly enough that the sheep has time to realize its on its back before it's free to go
I've watched many shearing competitions and am amazed at the speed at which sheep can be shorn without being torn to shreds. I've had the good fortune to watch a professional shearer in action at a fiber show. While he wasn't competition fast, he was quick and handled the sheep with care. None were nicked or cut in the process and the fleeces were auctioned off. I watched him shear four sheep. He ended up doing nearly 20 that day. Fiber fairs and shows are a good place to get raw fleeces to spin yourself. Often you'll get to see (and feel) the fleece before the sheep's been sheared. Of course, you can anything from clean fleeces to finished products as well, but it's quite educational to watch firsthand the shearing process.
I love going to shows like this! I had a spinning wheel that I really wanted to use but it was missing a crucial part :( my friend spins, though. She uses raw fleece as well as the fleece from the alpacas her parents own. Shearing a sheep is literally like getting a hair cut, it's not that scary, and it doesn't hurt them
Yes! They're fun and you meet interesting people that are dedicated to preserving fiber arts and a historical (with modern twists) way of life. If people would stop getting their info from crap sources like PETA and get it from actual farmers and shearers (or even their local county extension offices) they'd see it's not painful or scary. Sheep by nature are scared of everything because of being prey animals; but any sheep that's been sheared a few times knows the routine.
That's is a really good source to get information about cruelty to farm animals by the agricultural industry. "Thank" you for your crap "compassionate", "objective" advice, Teresa Taylor - you are going to the shows to have fun, it's not fun for animals!! The animal agriculture is not just cruel to farm animals, they are also responsible for destruction of our planet, more than any other industry.
It is scary to sheep in the wool industry, and NO, you would not want that hair cut!!!!
Oh, yea, sheep "like" that speed. To you Teresa Taylor it's all about products.
Yea, right, V33333P, it's so innocent, and sheep just love it; humans must own how cruel and destructive they are. So admit it!!!
The onse I've seen show relaxed, happy sheep that are enjoying to get the weight of for summer.
Yes, animals are use to cruelty, they are not relaxed, they are anxious what will happen to them next, how much will it hurt. If you want to see relaxed, happy farm animals go to any farm animal sanctuary, for god's sake.
Look up "mulesing", they totally do it. (I've watched it happen, I'm not from PETA.)
It does not matter, Ellie, your comment was down-voted anyway; there are many "good" people who just can't stand compassion to animals.
That's how it goes around here - any consideration of nonhuman animals is seen as offensive and paternalizing, while complaining about "preachy" vegans is an act of heroic self defense. You really gotta let that sink in: Someone complaining about being asked to take a look into what is caused by his/her consumerism because it may cause discomfort is a hero, while someone lending his/her voice to the exploited voiceless and helpless is being "entitled" and "self absorbed". If you're the majority, facts can be twisted until they support your stance - every time the industrial abuse of animals gets to be a topic here, you can see this happen as prototypeishly as if it were a performance to illustrate this....... It's not even the disagreeing that truly sucks, not at all...
"Intelligent" Miri Panda, the wool industry is a "shear" (sheer) cruelty!!!!! Get it to your ignorant, apathetic heads "gentle" people, for the sake of humaneness!!!! Sheep suffer immensely, they are treated inhumanely, cruelly!!! They do NOT get hair cuts!!!! Any animal which is raised to generate profits are unconscionably tortured and die in unspeakable agony!!! Get it to your callous brains, please!!!!
Also, leather lasts far longer than PVC. I had some PVC boots, lasted about a year, but leather boots can last more like 20 years. I think that it is far more sustainable to use a byproduct of the meat industry (that'll keep going for a good while yet), than plastic that needs replacing more often, and does not biodegrade.
And people can also get a lot of second-hand leather goods, if they don't want to buy new leather goods.
Load More Replies...The thought is that by buying second hand they are increasing the resale value for the items which contributes to them being more affordable and therefore more likely to be bought in the first place.
I haven't heard that complaint before about second hand goods. Not sure I agree. My current belt was a gift from a companion who was vegan before I was. It wasn't new; it was either a thrift store buy or some family member used to own it, so it didn't impact her ethical stance for it to be leather. It bothered her more if the material would go to waste. I suspect she'd buy a thrift store item that's leather, if it was a necessity of some kind.
I still have the Doc Martens I bought in college. I graduated in 1996
Ah, I loved mine; I wore them to death. My Vegetarian Shoes versions have lasted longer than my Doc Martens. They're made in the same factory (used to BE a Doc Marten factory). Granted, they're not as comfortable, but I am certain that is all about the soles, not the vegetable leather-alike.
Amelie C the pain and suffering your leather boots caused do not lasted as long.... the poor animal, whose skin you wearing, was murderer and died in unconscionable agony. Have fun. It's time to develop better cruelty-free materials.
My brother has a genuine leather jacket and he is a vegan. He has had it since before he became vegan but he won't throw it away coz it just wastes the animal. He may as well keep it since it has already been purchased, so is no longer contributing to the leather industry. He won't donate it coz why should he get rid of a perfectly good jacket that again has already been made, been paid for etc so why does it matter who wears it. I hope I'm making sense. He won't go out and buy leather anymore.
That's very reasonable and is the approach most vegans I know chose, too. Throwing stuff away won't help anything, while not buying it anymore sure does what it aims at.
Load More Replies...Same. I kept all of the non- vegan clothes I had before going vegan and now I only buy secondhand. It's not perfect but it's the best solution I have
I use my leather jacket almost 6 months per year. My mom bought it for me when I was 17yo. I’m turning 37 this year.
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