Mom Explains Why Grandparents Can’t Hug Her 2-Year-Old Whenever They Want And Have To Ask For Consent
Hugs and kisses from relatives are nice, but only with consent. That’s what one mother and TikTok video creator is trying to get her daughter’s grandparents to understand.
Australian mom Brittany Baxter shared a series of TikTok videos where she discussed how her daughter’s grandparents overstep the boundaries that she’s set out for her child. They ignore their grandchild’s ‘no’ and kiss and hug her anyway. Or they feel hurt that the kid doesn’t want affection at that very moment.
Check out Brittany’s videos below and be sure to let us know what you think, dear Pandas. Plenty of people supported Brittany enforcing strict boundaries and teaching her daughter about consent and body autonomy. However, others were more critical of this approach. And consent is a difficult topic to broach because it’s not always expressed overtly and can be implied and tacit.
Australian mom Brittany explained why grandparents can’t hug and kiss her daughter without consent. Here’s her first TikTok in a series of videos
@brittanybaxter_xI said what I said… ##gentleparenting ##consent ##fyp♬ original sound – Brittany
Image credits: brittanybaxter_x
Image credits: brittanybaxter_x
Image credits: brittanybaxter_x
Image credits: brittanybaxter_x
Image credits: brittanybaxter_x
Image credits: brittanybaxter_x
Image credits: brittanybaxter_x
ADVERTISEMENTImage credits: Juan Pablo (not the actual photo)
The Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy points out that consent can be given in multiple different ways that can be either completely direct and overt to less so. However, in order for consent to gain “binding force,” it has to meet certain criteria. These conditions (which must be fulfilled in order for consent to be consent) are: knowledge, intention, competence, voluntariness, and acceptability of content.
To put it very simply, the person whose consent you’re trying to get, whether for a hug or a doctor’s check-up, needs to understand what they’re agreeing to. That way they know what they’re in for. Meanwhile, in the grownup world, the party asking for consent provides services without fear of legal retribution.
“In standard cases, a person’s consent to another person’s acts removes moral or legal objections to or liability for the performance of those acts,” the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy writes.
The mom also explained how to deal with confrontations that will naturally arise because of this style of parenting in another video
@brittanybaxter_xReply to @britwolfe13 I hope this makes sense ❤️♬ original sound – Brittany
More and more parents are raising their children to understand the importance of consent from a very early age. This style of parenting emphasizes a child’s choices and body autonomy. Naturally, this can lead to some conflict, especially with family members who have a more traditional approach to raising children and might not view boundaries the same way that you do.
Brittany highlighted just how vital it is to stand your ground and not give in to other people’s opinions about how you should parent your child. Even if they’re family members whom you love and respect.
She also confronted her critics in a third video. You can watch it right here
@brittanybaxter_xReply to @lauraderian 🤷♀️♬ original sound – Brittany
The Australian mom also tackled her critics head-on, wondering whether they actually asked their child if hugs and kisses from their relatives is something that they want and need.
Brittany also drew attention to the fact that her own parents and her step-mom practice consent with their granddaughter 98 percent of the time and actually ask if she wants a hug, completely respecting her decision. It’s the other grandparents that Brittany has an issue with.
She also went on Australian TV and said that there’s been a mixed response to her videos. “A lot of people are very outraged which I understand, a lot of people have misunderstood the point of the message that I’m trying to get across. But a lot of people have been in support of it as well and that’s what has been amazing.”
The Australian mom started up a fiery discussion online with people both supporting her and criticizing her parenting method
Bored Panda’s recently written about another mother from Chicago who showed TikTok how she introduces lessons about consent into her toddlers’ daily lives. You can check out the post here. Meanwhile, however, we’d love to hear your thoughts about mom Brittany’s TikToks. Do you agree with her style of parenting? Do you think lessons about consent should start from birth or should parents wait until their kids grow up a bit more? Share your thoughts below.
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Storytelling, journalism, and art are a core part of who I am. I've been writing and drawing ever since I could walk—there is nothing else I'd rather do. My formal education, however, is focused on politics, philosophy, and economics because I've always been curious about the gap between the ideal and the real. At work, I'm a Senior Writer and I cover a broad range of topics that I'm passionate about: from psychology and changes in work culture to healthy living, relationships, and design. In my spare time, I'm an avid hiker and reader, enjoy writing short stories, and love to doodle. I thrive when I'm outdoors, going on small adventures in nature. However, you can also find me enjoying a big mug of coffee with a good book (or ten) and entertaining friends with fantasy tabletop games and sci-fi movies.
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Writer, BoredPanda staff
Storytelling, journalism, and art are a core part of who I am. I've been writing and drawing ever since I could walk—there is nothing else I'd rather do. My formal education, however, is focused on politics, philosophy, and economics because I've always been curious about the gap between the ideal and the real. At work, I'm a Senior Writer and I cover a broad range of topics that I'm passionate about: from psychology and changes in work culture to healthy living, relationships, and design. In my spare time, I'm an avid hiker and reader, enjoy writing short stories, and love to doodle. I thrive when I'm outdoors, going on small adventures in nature. However, you can also find me enjoying a big mug of coffee with a good book (or ten) and entertaining friends with fantasy tabletop games and sci-fi movies.
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I'm a visual editor at Bored Panda. I kickstart my day with a mug of coffee bigger than my head, ready to tackle Photoshop. I navigate through the digital jungle with finesse, fueled by bamboo breaks and caffeine kicks. When the workday winds down, you might catch me devouring bamboo snacks while binging on the latest TV show, gaming or I could be out in nature, soaking up the tranquility and communing with my inner panda.
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I'm a visual editor at Bored Panda. I kickstart my day with a mug of coffee bigger than my head, ready to tackle Photoshop. I navigate through the digital jungle with finesse, fueled by bamboo breaks and caffeine kicks. When the workday winds down, you might catch me devouring bamboo snacks while binging on the latest TV show, gaming or I could be out in nature, soaking up the tranquility and communing with my inner panda.
Ok, two things. Do the parents ask for consent? Don't kids have to ask for consent if *they* want to hug their grandparents? (let the downvoting begin in 3..2..1..)
I actually do ask my kids for consent.
Load More Replies...And it even works before children become verbal. They can very clearly express consent if you just look for the subtle cues.
There is a difference between a baby and a child that can talk/express themselves.
Actually my younger daughter could make it absolutely clear that she did NOT want to be held or cuddles by people when she was no more than a few months old. I think I was still considered a non-talker when I was proud that I had "Kicker her in the stomach!" when she dared to swoop on means pick me up. I just DO think that Brittany is making such an issue about it, that it is far more likely that SHE doesn't want her M-I-L to touch HER child. Even IF M-I-L is a serial pederast, I'm sure there are better ways of going about it than going on Television . What better way to get back at you MIL than making your child afraid of her!!
Oki doki boomer @Requiem
And your husband?? (just curious - I don't mean to sound rude. I just find this a bit extreme, but it's just my opinion :))
No I don't ask my hubby, but we know we can say no (not that we have). An understanding kinda thing. My daughter doesn't like a lot of affection so hugs and kisses makes her uncomfortable so i always ask, even when she is having a bad day and crying. She used to say yes all the time coz she didn't want to hurt my feelings even though it made her uncomfortable. When I found that out I made sure to explain to her that it doesn't hurt my feelings and that she should never feel like she has to say yes. It is her body, her feelings and her personal space. And if it did hurt my feelings then that is my problem, not hers and she shouldn't feel guilty. My son LOVES affection but I still ask because I want him to understand respecting peoples boundaries and rights to their body. Teaching them early I feel is pivotal in protecting them from abuse or being abusers.
Damn Requiem, it’s only monday and you’re already going for asshole of the week. I applaud your bravery, regardless of how misplaced it is.
Also, if you're not feeling very well and you need a hug, can they say no?
100% yes, they can still say no. Whilst a hug would be nice, it is still their choice. Plus if I'm sick it is better they don't hug me, don't want them catching it.
I don't really get it, though. Do you ask your infants if you can hold them while they're crying? Do you ask your toddler if you can hold them before putting them in high chairs? How old are we talking about? I get with 6, 7 year old kids being taught not to let people touch them randomly, but two year olds?????? :/
We are talking about when kids are old enough to express they are uncomfortable. A 2 year old can let you know even if it isn't verbal. You can tell by their body language. If they shy away or being avoidable then clearly they don't like what's going on. If you can't tell the difference between the need to touch them to put in a high chair, or car seat etc to the touch of affection then you have issues. Instead of saying things like "come give us a hug" or "give such and such a kiss goodbye" replace it with "can I have a hug/kiss" etc, if the child moves away or is being avoidable then offer an alternative like a handshake, fist bump or high five. If they still show no interest then leave it at that or say "maybe another time". It's not that difficult.
Polite kind parents warn the child, "Time for bath! Time for your high chair" etc. even to infants. This helps the children become aware of routines, accept these actions as routines. After seven godkids, umpteen younger ocusins, believe me, that's all much more normal than just grabbing kids like they're stuffed animals.
I get the confusion but I also have a good example - a three-year old I used to take care of at her preschool. An older caretaker she didn't know well would always barge into my room and ask the kids for hugs. Several of them hugged, this particular three-year old normally said 'no thank you.' The older daycare lady would go over, hug her anyway, and normally get rewarded by a slap in the head or the face. Then she'd either reprimand the child or ask me to do it, the little girl said NO. Hygiene/safety issues are different - they don't get a choice about getting their diaper changed, getting strapped in their carseat, going in their highchair, walking into traffic, playing with knives, etc. I left that daycare shortly after and still keep in touch with the little girl's caretakers (she has down syndrome) guess who uncharacteristically had a VERY hard time learning what 'no' meant as she got older? No one listened to her when she said no, so now she doesn't listen to others.
Yes. I ask my kids if I can hug/kiss them. Sometimes they say no. Its not personal, they just dont want to be touched at the moment. When they were very little I never expected them to ask me for consent - as a mother one of my jobs is to be available to to them, but I continue to model consent behaviour and as they get older they also tend to ask me for kisses and cuddles. Now that they are bigger and can understand, sometimes I also say no and they accept that I need a little bit of space and will come for a giant cuddle when I ready. Teaching them thier body is thier own is just as important as modelling that my body is my own.
You make a good point. I raised two boys as a single dad and hugs and "love you"'s were standard fare, as they were for myself and my own parents. I am all for not ordering kids to hug or kiss anyone and I am all for teaching children to act on feelings of reluctance or discomfort, but kids and parents and grandparents being required to ask for a hug seems to be taking things too far.
Your children should have the right to decide WHO touches their body. No matter what! Us adults need to get over ourselves, not them. I ask my own children if I can give them a hug. All the time. It’s a small way to show them just how much I love them by giving them the choice!
Absolutely! I've been into the local primary school to help out, and it's incredible and uncomfortable how many random kids will come up and hug me! Boundaries, people!
If random kids come up and hug you it's either because they feel safe with you, or they are craving the emotional attention. So feel honored. Kids' cognitive thinking doesn't develop until pre teen - teen years. They only know very basic feelings. Not boundaries. They know comfort / not comfortable.
Actually they do know boundaries from a very young age if they are taught them. My children both understood from 18 months that it was not appropriate to grab my boobs in the supermarket (thats a boundary). They also knew that they had to wear clothes to kindy (thats a boundary). They understood that thier penis was not for showing other people (another boundary). Just a few examples of age appropriate boundaries. Predators in particular look for kids who have not been taught boundaries because they are easier to manipulate and ultimately abuse.
Not strictly true. Predators look for kids who are unhappy, neglected or deprived of attention/affection, because they are vulnerable to manipulation by being offered the attention/affection they crave.
Predators look for an easy target, they don't go delving into your background to find out if you have been neglected or deprived of affection.
Azkhaleesi, if the congnitive thinking doesn't develop until pre-teen, does it make any sense to teach them the idea of consent before?
This is known as natural, healthy human interaction. You'll see it in traditional cultures & wherever people still live in tune with nature & haven't been infected with modern alienation. :)
I ask my own children for consent to give them a hug. They are 12 and 15.
Some of you just don't get it. The rate of sexual abuse is approx 1 in 3 women and 1 in 6 men. That is not including other forms of abuse. This isn't about being a snowflake, ridiculous etc. There is an actual reason WHY this is so important. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins etc can abuse other relatives. Most abusers are known to their victims. Predators take advantage and will say things like "if you love me you will do this" or "this is a special hug between me and you but its our secret" or "If you don't do this (sexual) then I will tell your parents you don't respect me and they will be mad at you". Teaching them about consent starts at unwanted affection. Including a simple hug and a kiss, doesn't matter if family or not. Statistically abusers are known by the victim. No means no should be taught from a young age. Forcing them into uncomfortable/ unwanted affection is sending the opposite message.
Also there is something seriously f****d up that there are people offended by this. So you get a kick out of forcing yourself onto someone, a child at that. That is what you are doing. If they are willing or wanting a hug then fine, it's consensual. But if it makes someone uncomfortable then you are forcing yourself into them. It is quite perverted actually.
Load More Replies...Thank you. I'm so glad to see people understanding this and working towards a better future for their children. My experiences being groomed and molested by a relative as a child has definitely made me extremely protective of children not being taught consent out of fear of it happening to others, and of parents letting it happen.
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no no, we're not talking about 7 or 12. This is a TWO year old kid.
A 2 year old can show they are uncomfortable. They will often shy away.
Exactly! UPVOTE TEN TIMES. B/c it starts with the "Uncle wants to ust kiss your cheek!" and you're pressured into that, and then.... it's called "grooming". It's horrifying when family endorses it. (Note: didn't happen to me.)
And you can show your affection for someone without a hug and a kiss. Like give them a gift, or give them a compliment. Not everyone's love launguage is touch. Also really good points :)
I can assure you that if I had been taught that it was okay to say no to a hug, or even just the basics of consent, when I was little, I probably would not have been sexually abused for the majority of my childhood.
thank you for sharing your voice and understanding how important this is. you're a good person.
I know of several cases where the child was forced to accept contact. The abuser can very subtly take advantage of a child. The child is trying to stop the abuse the only way they know; and that is NO. Just because they are not in the mood does not mean they do not love the other person. So many children are abused because they have not been taught they can say NO. When a child complains about abusive treatment, pay attention to them. Don't ignore them or tell them it is their imagination. They are trying to tell you something is hurting them. Whether it is a grandparent, teacher, classmate, etc. listen to them. Put them first before anyone else, even family members. That loving parent or sibling may not be so loving.
Oh for chrissake. You sound like all grandparents are suspected sexual predators. I feel sorry for you. Hope you don't have kids. Christ what a f'd up comment. You need help.
WHAT???? We are talking about kiddies here. If you were sexually abused as a child, I am very very sorry for you. But we are -- I think- talking about social behaviour while fully dressed in the presence of their daughter-in-law.
That is not the point. The point is teaching them CONSENT. If the child wants a hug or kiss then fine but if a child doesn't then they shouldn't be forced to just because the person is family. And FYI abuse can be done fully dressed as there are different types of abuse including sexual. But that's not the actual point of the post. It's consent.
I was really talking about "Brittney's" behaviour. Sure, one can say please don't try to hug baby if she doesn't want to be hugged, She's a bit shy/ unwell/tired at the moment, ) But going on national TV to complain to all and sundry that your do NOT want your daughter's Grandmother to touch her seems a vast over-reaction. Especially as she talks of 'asking for permission", rather than simply accepting the child's reluctance and not forcing it It all sounds much more likely that Brittney bears a grudge against her partner's mother. Possibly also against her partner, In fact the whole situation sounds alarmingly dysfunctional. I think that some family councelling might be advisable, If it IS the partner's mother being inappropriate then a councellor should help Brittney cope better.
Evelyn, age doesn’t matter. What matters is that ALL human beings should be in charge of their own, damn bodies! NO ONE ELSE GETS TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR IT. And yes, that includes hugs!
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How does one get consent from a child that can’t even speak in complete sentences or even have the ability to understand the basics of anything about life? Do you need consent to breast feed then or is that sexual assault for not having permission? Where does the cut off start and end? Consent from a two year old is ridiculous, do they also need to give consent for food and naps and doctor visits?
A child doesn't have to speak to show they are uncomfortable. If you ask for a hug or kiss and they shy away it is pretty clear they don't want a hug. And that includes 2yo You can often tell by their body language. Also comparing a NEED like feeding a baby, needing medical attention etc to a WANT, like affection is NOT the same thing. BIG difference.
Physical affection is indeed a need. It is ranked as a tertiary need in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, & studies have shown that children deprived of physical affection can suffer severe psychological damage & developmental problems.
@Nikki Owens, Yes, and kids who are touched WITHOUT WANTING TO BE TOUCHED also suffer severe psychological damage. Letting toddlers pull away from Granny isn't a sin. It's just that the kid hates her perfume, or forgot her since last Christmas, or whatever. Stop pushing everyone to believe that allowing small children to be grabbed is okay. It is NOT. Physical comfort/affection can be gained without shoving Junior into Granny regardless of Junior's thoughts on it. Or, to be more precise: I never wanted to be in a room with my one aunt. She is now a wanted felon, federal-level, for murder and financial crime. Tell me again that my toddler self should be forced to hug *her*... b/c my parents never made me hug her. My mom protected us from discomfort. With, btw, hugs.
It is not a need if the child doesn't WANT the affection. AGAIN this is not about depriving them, this is about them being able to say no.
Again this is not about depriving physical affection, this is just about consent. Not everyone wants to be touched at any given moment. It can make them very uncomfortable.
Of course it is, Nikki! That still doesn’t make it ok to go around touching people without their consent.
If a child wants/ needs a hug or kiss then that's fine. We are not talking about banning affection but giving kids the right and respect to be able to say no. If a kid is having a tantrum and doesn't want a cuddle then so be it, that is their choice but you can let them know that you are there when they need/ want you. It's not about taking away affection, it's about choice. You have literally taken what I have said to extremes, not once have I said to deny your child and not show any affection. And a 2 year old does have the ability to feel uncomfortable. Geez Louise.
Fifty upvotes, Foxxy. My mom protected us if we didn't want hugs/kisses from certain family. And she did so by holding us, or holding our hand, and making it clear without words that she was mama bear. If we calmed down and were okay with the hug/kiss later, fine. If not, oh well. Kids are people. They have moods, likes, dislikes. those change, just as in adults.
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The only thing that your “strategy” will do is make people not be willing to try to show your child any sort of affection, think back to when you were two.... can you even remember it? But I bet sure as s**t your dad would remember you crying at age two and wanting to give you a hug to make you feel better but you having a tantrum and not letting him show love to the most important thing in the entire world to him and his reason for living already rejecting him at age 2, yeah couldn’t possibly affect that relationship or bonding at all because his child’s mother says it will lead to the kid being sexually abused.... such total horse s**t, my mom would literally always force my brother and I to hug after we fought because were family and family comes first, by your count I should have been sexually abused 500 times by clowns at amusement parks by her bad parenting but nope, turns out it taught me forgiveness and to let things go and to always put my family first but had she done it your way, my brother and I would still hate each other to this day and being forced to hug him certainly didn’t make either of us lose any respect for the word no but gain total respect for family, there’s a time and a place for everything and lessons to be learned but blaming hugs as a child for sexual assault by predators later in life is literally blaming the victim and not the predator, I dunno i you had a messed up childhood or something but your putting your own personal trauma in the way of your child learning emotional connections as their brain develops, but your over sexualizing a form a familiar greeting dating back to our ancestors who couldn’t even speak languages, most of the world has customary greetings, you think I enjoy kissing men? But guess what my wife has relatives from turkey so I have to kiss random men on the cheek as a greeting or it’s a great insult, does that mean I can no longer understand consent? Sometimes you have to do things your not comfortable with, and giving a hug to your grand ma isn’t a gateway to being abused and if your family is that messed up that you have to worry it would lead to your child being sexually abused maybe don’t let your kid around your family because they are scum bags and explain to your child t he difference between doing something they don’t want to and unwanted sexual advances, but if you think your protecting a two year old, no your limiting their life experiences with a artificial bubble out of fear and lack of common sense, god your remind me of PC principal from South Park and his PC babies
Again you are not getting it. I am not talking about not to show any affection or being paranoid. This is about consent and not feeling like you have to appease others. I am from a very affectionate family but my daughter doesn't like much affection so I would never force her. I ask "do you want a hug" or "can I have a hug". Most of the time she will say no but my son on the other hand will take most affection and loves it. But I still ask him out of respect. A 2 year old does know when they are uncomfortable and will often shy or run away. It is not blaming the victim AT all, this is just teaching them that they are allowed to say no. No one has the right to touch you if it makes you uncomfortable. Even if it's a simple hug and a kiss. Not offering affection to your kids is psychologically damaging, there is evidence to support that. But again I never said to withhold affection. Offer it and if they accept then great, if It's personal choice. Not everyone likes physical touch.
I also never blamed hugs for sexual assault, or am sexualising hugs AT ALL. For the thousandth time it is just teaching CONSENT or body autonomy. Also you can learn forgiveness without being forced into hugging/kissing. If a parent feels rejected coz their child doesn't want a hug then that is their problem. Whilst it would like hugs from my daughter more often, I won't let my feelings make her feel guilty. Guilt tripping someone into affection is a common tactic predators use, including abusive partners. The idea of consent is to teach and protect them in the future. Oh and my brothers and I were not close as kids, we argued all the time, hurt each other and didn't hug. but now we are adults we love hanging out together and get along exceptionally well and we hug. Also newsflash, teaching a young child about sexual abuse is too complicated for them to fully understand. So teaching them the simple "no means no" when it comes to physical touch is the foundation and you can build onto it as they get older.
Maybe re-read what I have written. Nowhere have I said to never show affection. 🙄
Ross, it’s not about what dad wants. If the adults love their children enough, they will empower them to be able to make their own choices about their own bodies. Forcing yourself physically on a child is not always comforting to them.
hey asshole, maybe don't...I dunno, demean children and make them seem less important? believe it or not, but THE FEELINGS OF A CHILD ARE JUST AS VALID AS AN ADULT'S! *gasp* oh my god! so crazy!
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Seeing it all through this one lens doesn't seem to be a step forward. If my kid is going to look me in the eye and explain that I'm a predator to my grandkid until verbal permission given --- forget it, I'll miss the grandkids but I'm not on speaking terms anymore. Nonverbal permission/check will be there anyway unless the family dynamic is seriously off: The second before a hug to someone you know, you KNOW how it will be received. You KNOW if it's not welcome... Tell the grandparents off/forbid them access if they keep giving unwelcome hugs. The rest is out of context.
YOU know. You have learnt social cues through years of experience. But young children dont KNOW the way you think they do. They feel awkward and uncomfortable, but they dont know why. Giving them control to consent teaches them that. Also, its not about YOU being a predator. Its about teaching your grandchildren that they have to power to say NO so that they dont become the victims of predators. Predators are very good at identfying timid children with no autonomy who will make easy targets. You want to protect your grandkids from the real threat? Participate in teaching them that they have the right to say no.
I have a 2 year old niece, and I always ask if I can have a hug, because I (not having a great deal of toddler experience) don't want to upset a 2 year old. Lucky for me she likes me (once auntie shows up to baby sit mum and dad are pretty much forgotten), so I get lots of cuddles. My mum (Gran) who she know, but sees slightly less of due to distance, also asks, and usually gets one (but usually a little shorter). When last she saw my dad (grandpa), who she has only seen a couple of times, she didn't really want to hug him goodbye, she wanted auntie instead. My dad looked upset, but I said to him what do you expect when she doesn't know you, strangers are scary to a toddler who has spent most of her second year in lockdown with only her parents.
I have a whole bunch of nephews and always ask them. Always have and always will. Usually I get lots of hugs when coming and when going, but the youngest especially always says no. Ok lil dude, that's fine, you don't have to, we're cool. I was raised always having to give out hugs and kisses and sit on laps, grandparents especially (old strict religious "the man is the head of the house" kind of people of course). Always hated it, even as a tiny little kid. I would never ever do that to any child, no matter how small and they are
Load More Replies...Ok, two things. Do the parents ask for consent? Don't kids have to ask for consent if *they* want to hug their grandparents? (let the downvoting begin in 3..2..1..)
I actually do ask my kids for consent.
Load More Replies...And it even works before children become verbal. They can very clearly express consent if you just look for the subtle cues.
There is a difference between a baby and a child that can talk/express themselves.
Actually my younger daughter could make it absolutely clear that she did NOT want to be held or cuddles by people when she was no more than a few months old. I think I was still considered a non-talker when I was proud that I had "Kicker her in the stomach!" when she dared to swoop on means pick me up. I just DO think that Brittany is making such an issue about it, that it is far more likely that SHE doesn't want her M-I-L to touch HER child. Even IF M-I-L is a serial pederast, I'm sure there are better ways of going about it than going on Television . What better way to get back at you MIL than making your child afraid of her!!
Oki doki boomer @Requiem
And your husband?? (just curious - I don't mean to sound rude. I just find this a bit extreme, but it's just my opinion :))
No I don't ask my hubby, but we know we can say no (not that we have). An understanding kinda thing. My daughter doesn't like a lot of affection so hugs and kisses makes her uncomfortable so i always ask, even when she is having a bad day and crying. She used to say yes all the time coz she didn't want to hurt my feelings even though it made her uncomfortable. When I found that out I made sure to explain to her that it doesn't hurt my feelings and that she should never feel like she has to say yes. It is her body, her feelings and her personal space. And if it did hurt my feelings then that is my problem, not hers and she shouldn't feel guilty. My son LOVES affection but I still ask because I want him to understand respecting peoples boundaries and rights to their body. Teaching them early I feel is pivotal in protecting them from abuse or being abusers.
Damn Requiem, it’s only monday and you’re already going for asshole of the week. I applaud your bravery, regardless of how misplaced it is.
Also, if you're not feeling very well and you need a hug, can they say no?
100% yes, they can still say no. Whilst a hug would be nice, it is still their choice. Plus if I'm sick it is better they don't hug me, don't want them catching it.
I don't really get it, though. Do you ask your infants if you can hold them while they're crying? Do you ask your toddler if you can hold them before putting them in high chairs? How old are we talking about? I get with 6, 7 year old kids being taught not to let people touch them randomly, but two year olds?????? :/
We are talking about when kids are old enough to express they are uncomfortable. A 2 year old can let you know even if it isn't verbal. You can tell by their body language. If they shy away or being avoidable then clearly they don't like what's going on. If you can't tell the difference between the need to touch them to put in a high chair, or car seat etc to the touch of affection then you have issues. Instead of saying things like "come give us a hug" or "give such and such a kiss goodbye" replace it with "can I have a hug/kiss" etc, if the child moves away or is being avoidable then offer an alternative like a handshake, fist bump or high five. If they still show no interest then leave it at that or say "maybe another time". It's not that difficult.
Polite kind parents warn the child, "Time for bath! Time for your high chair" etc. even to infants. This helps the children become aware of routines, accept these actions as routines. After seven godkids, umpteen younger ocusins, believe me, that's all much more normal than just grabbing kids like they're stuffed animals.
I get the confusion but I also have a good example - a three-year old I used to take care of at her preschool. An older caretaker she didn't know well would always barge into my room and ask the kids for hugs. Several of them hugged, this particular three-year old normally said 'no thank you.' The older daycare lady would go over, hug her anyway, and normally get rewarded by a slap in the head or the face. Then she'd either reprimand the child or ask me to do it, the little girl said NO. Hygiene/safety issues are different - they don't get a choice about getting their diaper changed, getting strapped in their carseat, going in their highchair, walking into traffic, playing with knives, etc. I left that daycare shortly after and still keep in touch with the little girl's caretakers (she has down syndrome) guess who uncharacteristically had a VERY hard time learning what 'no' meant as she got older? No one listened to her when she said no, so now she doesn't listen to others.
Yes. I ask my kids if I can hug/kiss them. Sometimes they say no. Its not personal, they just dont want to be touched at the moment. When they were very little I never expected them to ask me for consent - as a mother one of my jobs is to be available to to them, but I continue to model consent behaviour and as they get older they also tend to ask me for kisses and cuddles. Now that they are bigger and can understand, sometimes I also say no and they accept that I need a little bit of space and will come for a giant cuddle when I ready. Teaching them thier body is thier own is just as important as modelling that my body is my own.
You make a good point. I raised two boys as a single dad and hugs and "love you"'s were standard fare, as they were for myself and my own parents. I am all for not ordering kids to hug or kiss anyone and I am all for teaching children to act on feelings of reluctance or discomfort, but kids and parents and grandparents being required to ask for a hug seems to be taking things too far.
Your children should have the right to decide WHO touches their body. No matter what! Us adults need to get over ourselves, not them. I ask my own children if I can give them a hug. All the time. It’s a small way to show them just how much I love them by giving them the choice!
Absolutely! I've been into the local primary school to help out, and it's incredible and uncomfortable how many random kids will come up and hug me! Boundaries, people!
If random kids come up and hug you it's either because they feel safe with you, or they are craving the emotional attention. So feel honored. Kids' cognitive thinking doesn't develop until pre teen - teen years. They only know very basic feelings. Not boundaries. They know comfort / not comfortable.
Actually they do know boundaries from a very young age if they are taught them. My children both understood from 18 months that it was not appropriate to grab my boobs in the supermarket (thats a boundary). They also knew that they had to wear clothes to kindy (thats a boundary). They understood that thier penis was not for showing other people (another boundary). Just a few examples of age appropriate boundaries. Predators in particular look for kids who have not been taught boundaries because they are easier to manipulate and ultimately abuse.
Not strictly true. Predators look for kids who are unhappy, neglected or deprived of attention/affection, because they are vulnerable to manipulation by being offered the attention/affection they crave.
Predators look for an easy target, they don't go delving into your background to find out if you have been neglected or deprived of affection.
Azkhaleesi, if the congnitive thinking doesn't develop until pre-teen, does it make any sense to teach them the idea of consent before?
This is known as natural, healthy human interaction. You'll see it in traditional cultures & wherever people still live in tune with nature & haven't been infected with modern alienation. :)
I ask my own children for consent to give them a hug. They are 12 and 15.
Some of you just don't get it. The rate of sexual abuse is approx 1 in 3 women and 1 in 6 men. That is not including other forms of abuse. This isn't about being a snowflake, ridiculous etc. There is an actual reason WHY this is so important. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins etc can abuse other relatives. Most abusers are known to their victims. Predators take advantage and will say things like "if you love me you will do this" or "this is a special hug between me and you but its our secret" or "If you don't do this (sexual) then I will tell your parents you don't respect me and they will be mad at you". Teaching them about consent starts at unwanted affection. Including a simple hug and a kiss, doesn't matter if family or not. Statistically abusers are known by the victim. No means no should be taught from a young age. Forcing them into uncomfortable/ unwanted affection is sending the opposite message.
Also there is something seriously f****d up that there are people offended by this. So you get a kick out of forcing yourself onto someone, a child at that. That is what you are doing. If they are willing or wanting a hug then fine, it's consensual. But if it makes someone uncomfortable then you are forcing yourself into them. It is quite perverted actually.
Load More Replies...Thank you. I'm so glad to see people understanding this and working towards a better future for their children. My experiences being groomed and molested by a relative as a child has definitely made me extremely protective of children not being taught consent out of fear of it happening to others, and of parents letting it happen.
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no no, we're not talking about 7 or 12. This is a TWO year old kid.
A 2 year old can show they are uncomfortable. They will often shy away.
Exactly! UPVOTE TEN TIMES. B/c it starts with the "Uncle wants to ust kiss your cheek!" and you're pressured into that, and then.... it's called "grooming". It's horrifying when family endorses it. (Note: didn't happen to me.)
And you can show your affection for someone without a hug and a kiss. Like give them a gift, or give them a compliment. Not everyone's love launguage is touch. Also really good points :)
I can assure you that if I had been taught that it was okay to say no to a hug, or even just the basics of consent, when I was little, I probably would not have been sexually abused for the majority of my childhood.
thank you for sharing your voice and understanding how important this is. you're a good person.
I know of several cases where the child was forced to accept contact. The abuser can very subtly take advantage of a child. The child is trying to stop the abuse the only way they know; and that is NO. Just because they are not in the mood does not mean they do not love the other person. So many children are abused because they have not been taught they can say NO. When a child complains about abusive treatment, pay attention to them. Don't ignore them or tell them it is their imagination. They are trying to tell you something is hurting them. Whether it is a grandparent, teacher, classmate, etc. listen to them. Put them first before anyone else, even family members. That loving parent or sibling may not be so loving.
Oh for chrissake. You sound like all grandparents are suspected sexual predators. I feel sorry for you. Hope you don't have kids. Christ what a f'd up comment. You need help.
WHAT???? We are talking about kiddies here. If you were sexually abused as a child, I am very very sorry for you. But we are -- I think- talking about social behaviour while fully dressed in the presence of their daughter-in-law.
That is not the point. The point is teaching them CONSENT. If the child wants a hug or kiss then fine but if a child doesn't then they shouldn't be forced to just because the person is family. And FYI abuse can be done fully dressed as there are different types of abuse including sexual. But that's not the actual point of the post. It's consent.
I was really talking about "Brittney's" behaviour. Sure, one can say please don't try to hug baby if she doesn't want to be hugged, She's a bit shy/ unwell/tired at the moment, ) But going on national TV to complain to all and sundry that your do NOT want your daughter's Grandmother to touch her seems a vast over-reaction. Especially as she talks of 'asking for permission", rather than simply accepting the child's reluctance and not forcing it It all sounds much more likely that Brittney bears a grudge against her partner's mother. Possibly also against her partner, In fact the whole situation sounds alarmingly dysfunctional. I think that some family councelling might be advisable, If it IS the partner's mother being inappropriate then a councellor should help Brittney cope better.
Evelyn, age doesn’t matter. What matters is that ALL human beings should be in charge of their own, damn bodies! NO ONE ELSE GETS TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR IT. And yes, that includes hugs!
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How does one get consent from a child that can’t even speak in complete sentences or even have the ability to understand the basics of anything about life? Do you need consent to breast feed then or is that sexual assault for not having permission? Where does the cut off start and end? Consent from a two year old is ridiculous, do they also need to give consent for food and naps and doctor visits?
A child doesn't have to speak to show they are uncomfortable. If you ask for a hug or kiss and they shy away it is pretty clear they don't want a hug. And that includes 2yo You can often tell by their body language. Also comparing a NEED like feeding a baby, needing medical attention etc to a WANT, like affection is NOT the same thing. BIG difference.
Physical affection is indeed a need. It is ranked as a tertiary need in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, & studies have shown that children deprived of physical affection can suffer severe psychological damage & developmental problems.
@Nikki Owens, Yes, and kids who are touched WITHOUT WANTING TO BE TOUCHED also suffer severe psychological damage. Letting toddlers pull away from Granny isn't a sin. It's just that the kid hates her perfume, or forgot her since last Christmas, or whatever. Stop pushing everyone to believe that allowing small children to be grabbed is okay. It is NOT. Physical comfort/affection can be gained without shoving Junior into Granny regardless of Junior's thoughts on it. Or, to be more precise: I never wanted to be in a room with my one aunt. She is now a wanted felon, federal-level, for murder and financial crime. Tell me again that my toddler self should be forced to hug *her*... b/c my parents never made me hug her. My mom protected us from discomfort. With, btw, hugs.
It is not a need if the child doesn't WANT the affection. AGAIN this is not about depriving them, this is about them being able to say no.
Again this is not about depriving physical affection, this is just about consent. Not everyone wants to be touched at any given moment. It can make them very uncomfortable.
Of course it is, Nikki! That still doesn’t make it ok to go around touching people without their consent.
If a child wants/ needs a hug or kiss then that's fine. We are not talking about banning affection but giving kids the right and respect to be able to say no. If a kid is having a tantrum and doesn't want a cuddle then so be it, that is their choice but you can let them know that you are there when they need/ want you. It's not about taking away affection, it's about choice. You have literally taken what I have said to extremes, not once have I said to deny your child and not show any affection. And a 2 year old does have the ability to feel uncomfortable. Geez Louise.
Fifty upvotes, Foxxy. My mom protected us if we didn't want hugs/kisses from certain family. And she did so by holding us, or holding our hand, and making it clear without words that she was mama bear. If we calmed down and were okay with the hug/kiss later, fine. If not, oh well. Kids are people. They have moods, likes, dislikes. those change, just as in adults.
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The only thing that your “strategy” will do is make people not be willing to try to show your child any sort of affection, think back to when you were two.... can you even remember it? But I bet sure as s**t your dad would remember you crying at age two and wanting to give you a hug to make you feel better but you having a tantrum and not letting him show love to the most important thing in the entire world to him and his reason for living already rejecting him at age 2, yeah couldn’t possibly affect that relationship or bonding at all because his child’s mother says it will lead to the kid being sexually abused.... such total horse s**t, my mom would literally always force my brother and I to hug after we fought because were family and family comes first, by your count I should have been sexually abused 500 times by clowns at amusement parks by her bad parenting but nope, turns out it taught me forgiveness and to let things go and to always put my family first but had she done it your way, my brother and I would still hate each other to this day and being forced to hug him certainly didn’t make either of us lose any respect for the word no but gain total respect for family, there’s a time and a place for everything and lessons to be learned but blaming hugs as a child for sexual assault by predators later in life is literally blaming the victim and not the predator, I dunno i you had a messed up childhood or something but your putting your own personal trauma in the way of your child learning emotional connections as their brain develops, but your over sexualizing a form a familiar greeting dating back to our ancestors who couldn’t even speak languages, most of the world has customary greetings, you think I enjoy kissing men? But guess what my wife has relatives from turkey so I have to kiss random men on the cheek as a greeting or it’s a great insult, does that mean I can no longer understand consent? Sometimes you have to do things your not comfortable with, and giving a hug to your grand ma isn’t a gateway to being abused and if your family is that messed up that you have to worry it would lead to your child being sexually abused maybe don’t let your kid around your family because they are scum bags and explain to your child t he difference between doing something they don’t want to and unwanted sexual advances, but if you think your protecting a two year old, no your limiting their life experiences with a artificial bubble out of fear and lack of common sense, god your remind me of PC principal from South Park and his PC babies
Again you are not getting it. I am not talking about not to show any affection or being paranoid. This is about consent and not feeling like you have to appease others. I am from a very affectionate family but my daughter doesn't like much affection so I would never force her. I ask "do you want a hug" or "can I have a hug". Most of the time she will say no but my son on the other hand will take most affection and loves it. But I still ask him out of respect. A 2 year old does know when they are uncomfortable and will often shy or run away. It is not blaming the victim AT all, this is just teaching them that they are allowed to say no. No one has the right to touch you if it makes you uncomfortable. Even if it's a simple hug and a kiss. Not offering affection to your kids is psychologically damaging, there is evidence to support that. But again I never said to withhold affection. Offer it and if they accept then great, if It's personal choice. Not everyone likes physical touch.
I also never blamed hugs for sexual assault, or am sexualising hugs AT ALL. For the thousandth time it is just teaching CONSENT or body autonomy. Also you can learn forgiveness without being forced into hugging/kissing. If a parent feels rejected coz their child doesn't want a hug then that is their problem. Whilst it would like hugs from my daughter more often, I won't let my feelings make her feel guilty. Guilt tripping someone into affection is a common tactic predators use, including abusive partners. The idea of consent is to teach and protect them in the future. Oh and my brothers and I were not close as kids, we argued all the time, hurt each other and didn't hug. but now we are adults we love hanging out together and get along exceptionally well and we hug. Also newsflash, teaching a young child about sexual abuse is too complicated for them to fully understand. So teaching them the simple "no means no" when it comes to physical touch is the foundation and you can build onto it as they get older.
Maybe re-read what I have written. Nowhere have I said to never show affection. 🙄
Ross, it’s not about what dad wants. If the adults love their children enough, they will empower them to be able to make their own choices about their own bodies. Forcing yourself physically on a child is not always comforting to them.
hey asshole, maybe don't...I dunno, demean children and make them seem less important? believe it or not, but THE FEELINGS OF A CHILD ARE JUST AS VALID AS AN ADULT'S! *gasp* oh my god! so crazy!
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Seeing it all through this one lens doesn't seem to be a step forward. If my kid is going to look me in the eye and explain that I'm a predator to my grandkid until verbal permission given --- forget it, I'll miss the grandkids but I'm not on speaking terms anymore. Nonverbal permission/check will be there anyway unless the family dynamic is seriously off: The second before a hug to someone you know, you KNOW how it will be received. You KNOW if it's not welcome... Tell the grandparents off/forbid them access if they keep giving unwelcome hugs. The rest is out of context.
YOU know. You have learnt social cues through years of experience. But young children dont KNOW the way you think they do. They feel awkward and uncomfortable, but they dont know why. Giving them control to consent teaches them that. Also, its not about YOU being a predator. Its about teaching your grandchildren that they have to power to say NO so that they dont become the victims of predators. Predators are very good at identfying timid children with no autonomy who will make easy targets. You want to protect your grandkids from the real threat? Participate in teaching them that they have the right to say no.
I have a 2 year old niece, and I always ask if I can have a hug, because I (not having a great deal of toddler experience) don't want to upset a 2 year old. Lucky for me she likes me (once auntie shows up to baby sit mum and dad are pretty much forgotten), so I get lots of cuddles. My mum (Gran) who she know, but sees slightly less of due to distance, also asks, and usually gets one (but usually a little shorter). When last she saw my dad (grandpa), who she has only seen a couple of times, she didn't really want to hug him goodbye, she wanted auntie instead. My dad looked upset, but I said to him what do you expect when she doesn't know you, strangers are scary to a toddler who has spent most of her second year in lockdown with only her parents.
I have a whole bunch of nephews and always ask them. Always have and always will. Usually I get lots of hugs when coming and when going, but the youngest especially always says no. Ok lil dude, that's fine, you don't have to, we're cool. I was raised always having to give out hugs and kisses and sit on laps, grandparents especially (old strict religious "the man is the head of the house" kind of people of course). Always hated it, even as a tiny little kid. I would never ever do that to any child, no matter how small and they are
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