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Someone Asked “What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?”, Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers
Philosophers and writers have long debated the roles people have played in influencing the progress of civilization. While Thomas Carlyle, for example, felt that great figures are key to guiding us forward, Leo Tolstoy, on the other hand, was of the belief that no individual can single-handedly steer the course of humanity, no matter what position they held.
Regardless of what the case might be, there are two kinds of people: those who are forgotten and those who live on in our collective memory. In an attempt to figure out if some of the latter are getting undeserved praise, Reddit user TGYHJDFGH made a post on the platform, asking everyone: "What beloved person in history should be hated?" and it was immediately flooded with answers.
But before you scroll down to check them out, I want to make things a little bit more interesting and/or complicated for you. Tell me, can we judge someone's morals after hundreds of years, when the entire cultural landscape has changed course? And where do we draw the line between what we can and cannot accept about someone's personal life if their work has transcended time and allowed countless people to find meaning?
I know, these are pretty tough questions. But humans are walking contradictions and it would be irresponsible to instantly dismiss the legacy of, say, the Founding Fathers or Mother Teresa.
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Christopher columbus...didnt discover s**t and brought misery wherever he went.
This needs to be higher. Columbus was THE WORST. Slavery, murder, torture, you name it.
Mother Theresa. My father was a taxi driver in Australia and one of his customers was a man who'd been raised in Mother Theresa's orphanage. He said she beat him terribly.
Another user also added: She was obsessed with preventing wartime sexual abuse victims from getting abortions.
Her order sold babies.
She buddied up to dictators and accepted stolen cash from them.
Collected millions in donations and never spent them on her "houses of the poor" which were vermin infested crapholes where people went to die.
Refused pain medication for the dying and ill because she believed suffering = being close to god.
Had nothing but top of the line medical care for herself.
Teresa was a horrible human being. She believed that only through pain you can reach Christ, so let the people suffer in her care. And it was backed by the Catholic Church so that she can convert as many people as possible to Christianity. And the Western world backed her with billions in donations. (Read 'Missionary Position' By Christopher Hitchens)
Thomas Edison. I’ll never forgive him for what he did to Tesla.
He electrocuted an elephant to death to prove his point about AC/DC electricity and I will forever detest him for that.
Ronald Reagan - moved somewhere between 50-80 TRILLION from middle class to upper 1%. Ruined America!
Coco Chanel was a goddamn Nazi spy. Yes, she was an incredible designer, and she's probably one of the most influential humans of the 20th century, based on the number of people who have worn clothing directly inspired by her over the past 100 years. She really did change the way women dress in a truly radical way, and I respect that - knitwear, feminized menswear, ditching the corset, transforming black into an everyday color, the essential skirt suit, costume jewelry, synthetic fragrances in perfume, the list goes on.
But she was a goddamn Nazi spy. Coco was a wretched anti-Semite, like so many other members of the European elite during the 30s. She dated a number of staggeringly wealthy British aristocrats and they'd all sit around talking about the Protocols of Zion and s**t, trying to figure out whether any members of the royal family were secretly Jews, etc. When war broke out, the two Jewish brothers who ran her perfume empire (aka Chanel No 5, the best selling perfume in the world then and now) had to flee to the US for safety. How did Coco respond? By writing to the Nazis to ask them to transfer ownership over to her, a good Aryan, so she could make more money. But that's not the half of it.
She fell in love with a dashing German spy named "Spitz" who'd been seducing bluebloods all over France and England for years leading up the war. Coco was a useful woman - she was simply one of the richest women in the world, and she knew everyone in the British aristocracy, including her old hunting buddy and dear friend, Winston Churchill himself. She and Spitz socialized with all the biggest Nazi names in town, especially Otto Abetz, the Nazi ambassador to France, who invited them to every party in town. Spitz convinced her to join the Abwehr (aka the German secret service) and make trips to Spain. Operating under the code name "Westminster", she attempted to broker a "separate peace" between Germany and England. (In the meantime, she may or may not have reported at least one woman at the Hotel Ritz whom she suspected of being Jewish to the SS.) She had a grand old time going on her adventures, and wrote about the excitement of working for the Abwehr in her private notes.
Chanel was arrested only a few days after the liberation of Paris - absolutely everyone in town knew what she'd been doing and who she'd been doing it with - but for rEaSoNs UnKnOwN she was released without charges. It's widely believed that Winston Churchill personally intervened. It might be because the two of them had been close friends for decades. It might be because she was going to embarrass the s**t out of Britain by outing all the anti-Semites and pro-Nazis in the British aristocracy - including the recently abdicated Edward VIII who used his f***ng honeymoon as an excuse to tour Nazi Germany and shake Hitler's hand. She spent the rest of her life being a nasty, bitter morphine addict living in the Hotel Ritz. The House of Chanel has very, very little to say about the matter, and every few years a few more bits of damning evidence are declassified from the vaults.
If you want to learn more, I did a whole episode about her Nazi days in my French history podcast: "The Collaborator"
Pablo Picasso, he was misogynistic and sexually assaulted women
Gandhi. After learning all the colorist and racist s**t he would say to those who had darker complexion or those of African descent in my 8th grade year i haven’t seen him the same.
Bill Cosby. America's dad. Up until those allegations started
he had creepy eyes IMO even when I was little, and being little, I'd say "creeper eyes"...
Woodrow Wilson.
Guy was majorly racist, segregated the military, kicked black people out of the government, he screened a KKK movie in the White House and was a strong defender of the KKK. Even for his time he was considered racist
PT BARNUM.
Most people know but due to the romanticization of The Greatest Showman, people should know that he was a maniac that did an ungodly experiments on living beings, locked people in cages, abused them, and mocked them. All whilst earning pocket from them.
John Lennon. Treated like s**t during his childhood, whinges about it his whole life, then does the exact same thing to his son Julian.
Based on personal experience with Oprah Winfrey at Barnes Municipal Airport on New Years Eve in 1991, I would say it would have to be her. Cosby's private jet brought her and Steadman into the airport under cover of darkness to go to the Cosby estate up North. I watched from the tower and she shoved a lone child out of the way and slammed the door to the limo. All the child wanted was an autograph. Oprah's kindness and compassion was an act. If she didn't get something out of it, she was quite capable of stepping on feelings of a lone child when the cameras were not on her
Elvis Presley. He groomed a then 14 year old and slept with her while he toured.
King Edward the VIII was a nazi sympathizer who possibly colluded with the Germans to retake the throne in the event of an invasion and conquest of Britain.
He wasn’t just a love sick romantic who gave up his kingdom for a woman.
Alfred Hitchcock, the guy probably was one of the best filmmakers ever, yes. but it's worth mentioning how much he abused his actors, including sexually harassing Tippi Hedren
Not quite beloved, but Joseph P. Kennedy Sr..
He decided that Rosemary (his daughter) who was 23 at the time should have a lobotomy; he did not inform his wife of this decision until after the procedure was completed. And then they sent her away to an institute.
In her early young adult years, Rosemary Kennedy experienced seizures and violent mood swings. In response to these issues, her father arranged a prefrontal lobotomy for her in 1941 when she was 23 years of age; the procedure left her permanently incapacitated and rendered her unable to speak intelligibly.
Sick f**k, who would do this to their own child.
"Who would do this to their own child". In that era? Quite a few people, unfortunately. The lobotomy at that time was peddled as a "cure" ----- they truly didn't know better.
8000 comments so it might be here Apparently John Wayne needed to be restrained from assaulting a native American actress in the 70s at the academy awards or something. I think her name was Sacheen Little feather. And Clint Eastwood allegedly was mocking her too.
John Wayne was definitely racist. Remember the playboy article where he said “I believe in white supremacy,” he said, and spoke harshly about African Americans, saying, “We can’t all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks.” “I don’t believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people,” he said. This is just the tip of the iceberg. And Clint Eastwood talks to invisible people in chairs.
Einstein wasn’t a great guy. Brilliant, sure, but kinda douchy in his personal life.
He refused to marry his long time lover for years, even after she got pregnant. The child was assumed to be given up for adoption, but no record has ever been found.
He and his wife, Mileva Marić, worked together on their research. People saw them do it. They made jokes about it at parties. He proudly told people that she did all his calculations. They only put his name on their work and he went on to claim all the credit - ignoring any work she had done. Part of their agreement was that she would get the Nobel prize money but he tried to prevent that.
She raised two children - one schizophrenic - took care of the house and tutored to bring in extra money because he couldn’t get a job for a long time. He started getting more notoriety and then began an affair with his first cousin.
He moved to a different country to be with his new hillbilly mistress. He divorced his wife and quickly married the new, younger model. He had rules she had to abide by, such as leaving the room immediately when told and not expecting or asking for any sort of affection except when necessary for appearances sake.
Elsa, his second wife, was dying and he worked nonstop because he didn’t know what to do (I guess). She was basically abandoned her last few months.
He cheated on both his wives, numerous times. Ignored his children. Oh - and he was pretty into his second wife’s daughter and thought about marrying her instead.
About the missing child, there is a series called The Missing By Marget Peterson Haddix, book fives discusses it
Charles Dickens had his wife, the mother of his children, committed to an insane asylum so he could run off with a teenage actress.
Edit- I have been informed that this wasn't successful, he tried to have the mother of his ten children committed but it didn't work. Which is still quite bad
People (men, or ok "not all men") still try to label women as crazy or mentally unfit to get what they want.
Joseph Smith-
I grew up LDS and left with my family when I was in junior high. After some reading and learning from historical documents without church bias, I realized how drastically different he was when he wasn’t viewed in the eyes of the church.
Joseph Smith...Big pimpin' (I saw that on a t-shirt that I regret not buying. 😭)
From generations of experience, the Mormon church, Mormonism, all of it is a disgusting lie, and most of it all is just to cover up mediocre white men's desires to f*ck virgins, spread their seed, keep out others, and then be worshipped as gods themselves. It's the most sad, pathetic inept male fantasy that hundreds of stupid people back in the day, including my ancestors, fell for. There is nothing redeeming about Mormons/LDS.
I mean, have you ever taken the time to maybe go to their church and meet a few of them? All my friends and neighbors are Mormons, and they and their families are nothing like this. I have yet to meet one even close to this, and I know many of them very well. True, you will always find bad people in every religion, but I don't think you should be so quick to judge. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Let them believe what they wanna believe. No hate, I just feel like they are kind people.
"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" is just a lie by omission.
Mrs. Jan Glass's opinion may not be your reality, but it is hers. She's entitled to hers, as are you to yours.
Read about "Mountain Meadows" or Gary Gilmore. Or the sects that still practice Polygamy. And if you don't tithe or by extra groceries, you can go on the S---list. All made up just like all religions.
Read "Under the Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakauer about a splinter group of Mormons who practice polygamy and treat their women like trash
They are kind and generous most of them. I live in Mormon country too. They have a history of suicide and child abuse, they have a history of not seeing things, they have a history of feeling persecuted, they have a history of being annointed by a special prophecy. I like living with the Mormons, they are good decent people, but after a lifetime in Utah, i am still not saved.
Agreed. Most of them do seem like very kind people. I'm an ex-mormon, and I do like their message of love and family, however I left after I learned more about the history and dug deeper into their beliefs, and I decided it just wasn't for me. Sorry if this offends anyone. Also, not trying to be mean but Mrs. Jan Glass, it's okay to not like a religion but maybe don't just say that it's a disgusting lie and the people who believe it are stupid. Let people believe what they believe. Hope you have a good day/night :)
Sorry, Rayne, but after what I've heard some of the bishops and elders say, it's disgusting. These "kind" people are perfectly willing to doxx and harass gay kids or kids whose parents divorce, and I've seen it firsthand multiple times. Know what happens when a couple Nazis show up to your bar and you don't kick them out? It means you're running a Nazi bar. It's not about being offended. It's about being abused. Mormonism is 100% abusive.
You have to remember these people are still human. There is definitely a problem with ahole men at church but it’s not doctrine. I’m a 30 yr member now and I’ve had quite a few bad experiences with men claiming the priesthood gives them power but it’s not doctrine. The doctrine promotes love, compassion and we only worship God. We don’t even worship Jesus or the modern day prophets. I also know many many gay people ,including my own daughter, that have only had positive and loving interactions with members. Just remember if we were all perfect then we wouldn’t need church. 😁
That was literally like the most mature response ever and I wish I could've put it like that. Lol
No! You cannot judge a group of people based off of a few. You need to stop being so aggressive. They are kind people and not at all like you are saying. Just be kind, you don't have to like it, but don't be mean. I have never met a Mormon that is anything like you are describing.
I've seen it firsthand all my life, so no, I will not stop. The Mormon church is abusive, from the top down.
This simply isn't true. I am a Mormon, and I was taught all about Joseph Smith's failings growing up. This was a central subject of our Seminary class. As for the politics of "attack anyone before they attack us" this also is not true. The Mormons had been forced out of many states, and in Missouri an "extermination order' was issued, allowing Mormons to be killed without legal repercussions. Hundreds of Mormons were killed during this movement, but the only situation I can think of where the Mormons themselves committed murder would be the Mountain Meadows Massacre, which occurred after Joseph's death, without the approval of church leaders, by two disgruntled members who were excommunicated and later executed.
Alright, I’ve read all of your comments on this post, and you have a serious issue. You are saying completely untrue things, and being incredibly hateful towards Mormons for personal reasons alone. You may have bad experiences with LDS members, but there is no reason on earth for you to say these horrible things just because you disagree with this religion. Get some therapy and complain about your problems elsewhere. Nobody wants to see this amount of negativity, especially those who are part of this religion.
Until your religion returns multiple dead family members to me, until your religion undoes the harm it's done to the LGBTQ+ community, and until your religion stops marrying girls to abusive men, I will continue to speak out. Yes, I have a serious issue, because your church is openly abusive, and MILLIONS of others will confirm this. There is every reason to keep talking about the crimes and immoral behaviors perpetuated by your church. If you don't want to "see this negativity," then Mormons need to stop being homophobic pedophiles who support domestic violence, cheating the elderly, and sex abuse. It's time for you to pull your head out of the sand and face the truth of what your religion promotes. "Kind" people don't tell gay kids that they're going to burn in hell and disown them. "Kind" people don't look at an abused, pregnant teen bride and tell her she has a duty to stay with her husband and lead him to God. Your religion is sick.
Wow I think u may be confused and are talking about the reformed Mormons led by Warren Jeff’s. He is all those thing s but the LDS church has nothing to do with his cult. He is in prison for all those reasons and is still running his church from jail. The regular church does none of these practices.
lol i’m mormon and bisexual and they haven’t treated me any different. still kind, loving people.
bruv I'm a gay mormon and everyone in the church still respects me. I was always able to do the same things as all the other men.
First of all, they don't marry their kids off, they support the people of LGBTQ (I had a very good conversation with a few of them (separately) And every single one of them said they don't support the idea, but they support the people) I don't agree with it, but they are not even close to as bad as you are saying. Go to their website https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng and look up the law of Chasity. Everything they are about is the complete opposite you are making them to be. They are a kind people, and have saved my life. BE KIND PLEASE!
"They're kind people!" is literally the argument people make about Nazis. I would like to suggest any one of you who has accused me or others of lying about Mormons try one thing. I mean it. If you are a woman, go to your bishop, and tell him that you need help getting out of an abusive marriage/relationship. Tell him (and it's ALWAYS him, isn't it, which is another problem) that your husband hits you. Forces you to have sex when you don't want it. Won''t let you get a job. Takes your paycheck if you have a job. Tell him that YOU NEED HELP LEAVING AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP, that you need a safe place to stay, that you need to find a job and a home and safe shelter for you and your children. Go on. Do it. If you are a man, go tell your bishop that you are gay, and want to marry a partner of the same gender, but you want to still be a good, faithful, and practicing Mormon. See how "supportive" they are. Give it a couple weeks. Give it a month. See how supportive and "kind" they still are.
Actually I have known women to do exactly that and told to leave the relationship. Your still branding some peoples actions with doctrine that isn’t the same thing
All of you who are saying your church is great, your experience is great, and that Jan Glass needs to be "kind"...sorry, but I call bull s**t. I'm truly glad you've found acceptance and love there, I really am, but she clearly has not. And she's not the only one. She is absolutely allowed to talk about her experience without all of you piling on and telling her she's wrong, or that she should be more kind about it. If you're uncomfortable hearing about her experience, then maybe it is YOU who should be more kind, and practice what you preach.
Any "religion" or cult that takes many women and young girls as sex partners or "wives" is just a child and women abuse system. No exceptions. None.
Aisha, daughter of Abu-Bakr was a beautiful little girl. Muhammad married her when he was fifty three years old and she was only six years old. He had intercourse with her when she was nine years old. (Wives of the Prophet, pages 57-61).
This. When you take it without the LDS lens, you realize that LDS members are taught to view him with unquestioning adoration. Eventually Smith's politics became "attack anyone outside our church before they attack us". For those wondering if they've encountered a Mormon? If you read Twilight? Its author is Mormon, and IIRC, practicing. Yep, sparkly vampires...
Twilight is called "Mormon Abstinence Pr0n" for a reason, after all. Prized virginity? No sex until marriage, but marry at 18 instead of college/job/life and it's all twinkly-perfect? Have a baby that's already found a husband before it says its first word? "Imprinting"? Yeah, that's straight out of the Temple mentality.
Load More Replies...For some time, I was reading LSD instead of LDS...
So true, considering he might have found some shrooms in that grove he claimed to have his "visions."
Oh, that is 100% what he and Brigham and the other POS did.
Load More Replies...Actually, it's documented history. Just because you don't like it or want to pretend it didn't happen doesn't make it not true.
Charlie, you are perfectly capable of going to the library and checking out books. No matter what I tell you, you will insist I'm lying, because you are still in the middle of it. Even abused spouses still married to their abusers insist that they're happy, and their partner REALLY loves them, deep down. Speaking of abused spouses, I was counting up all of the Mormon women in my family who have been in abusive marriages -- often until death, either theirs, their husbands, or the baby/child he murdered -- and I'm up to 54 now. Want to hear about my good Mormon great-grandfather who left his first wife with 9 kids, because it was the Depression, and disappeared. A decade later, he turned up in Nebraska, polygamously married, and had 7 more kids with Wife 2. So sure, the church doesn't support abuse, polygamy, pedophilia, homophobia, or any of that, but gosh! It sure does still happen a whole lot!
Most religions have been founded by a pedophile some were convicted pedophiles. I really can't think of any religion that wasn't founded by a man that wanted an excuse to have sex w children and physically abuse the women that carry their next conquest.
Extra bonus if they can throw in some colonization, too. Religion sucks.
Load More Replies...And religion is why people refused to mask up during a pandemic, killing millions, and why "good Christians" think that screaming in my face that I'm a sl*t is "Jesus's love." We'll be kind when religious people start being kind.
Most religious people I know are very kind. "Good Christians" are polite and kind to everyone. But even if they weren't, even if religious people were absolutely awful, that still isn't a reason for you to be awful as well.
The world will never be kind, so you need to put on your Big-Boy pants and be kind first.
Be kind? Religion has been used to justify some of the most unbelievable, atrocious violence against other human beings so I don't care at all about a religious person's "feelings", organized religion is a disease, the wrongs outweigh the good no matter how you look at it. If you can't handle criticism of your faith then I guess it's not a good religion is it?
It's not even my faith, I just know that they have treated me kindly, and I don't like people being mean
Oh, well as long as they've been kind to YOU, who cares about all of the abused women and children, the homophobia, the massive numbers of suicides- Selfish and self-centered to the end.
"Hey guys, I started a new religion where God says I get to straight up f**k your wives and daughters. Who's on board with me?"
My family is literally Mormon and has been since the 1850s. Yes, they did. Yes, they do. Yes, you've been fed a pile of lies in order to maintain the status quo.
I must assume you are talking about some splinter sect, because the main Mormon church disproves all of those things. Perhaps your family was not practicing correctly.
The "no true Scotsman" fallacy doesn't work. My family makes up over 100 members of the current Mormon church, and attends services at several of the main temples. They belong to Mormon clubs, and live in Mormon communities. They are absolutely the main Mormon church, and they have been repeating to me for decades the words of your bishops. Sorry, but yet again, just because YOU haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's not true.
Peryton, I honestly don't expect people still in the middle of the abusive system to respond positively. You'll notice it's 3-4 specific people here, with little post history, asking questions that I've already answered in an attempt to deflect, because this is also what Mormons do: brigade. We've been doxxed/stalked/threatened IRL by multiple Mormons, so the people here don't even make a dent. However, for the 3-4 Mormons here, I promise you, if and when you come out of Mormonism, I will 100% be there for you. Your church won't be, but those of us who survived the Mormon church will. THAT is actual love and kindness (but it'll take practicing Mormons a lot to acknowledge it. They can't risk their belief system collapsing. I've seen too many family members hold on to Mormonism for DECADES before finally realizing how deeply and profoundly they were lied to). Sadly, they'll never get their tithes back, but at least they have their lives.
Which Mormon church do you mean? There isn't just one. Nothing you have described is permitted in the main denomination. Who are you talking about?
So I have a mutual friend named Joseph Smith, and when I saw this post, I thought, like, a time traveler who knew him and wrote this and also thought LDS was LSD. I'm stupid lol.
Hi, I'm Mormon and I agree that Joseph Smith was not the best guy. He practiced polygamy and probably did other stuff too. But I want to say that our religion isn't all bad. There is definitely some stuff I don't agree and there are a LOT of old white men running it and i'm even considering switching religions but there is also a lot of good stuff too. We donate a bunch of stuff to charity, a big part of our religion is helping people, and we are just trying to be our best selves. So it is ok if you guys don't agree with our religion but if you could please not say mean stuff like that it would be great because some of that stuff if really mean and you don't really know about our religion so don't assume you know everything about it. Thank you.
I’m a atheist and I donate a “ bunch of stuff” to charity and I give my time to helping people and I give money to causes that are not popular with mainstream society. I , an Atheist , do these things because it’s the right thing to do and Not because some fairy story person who lives in the clouds told me to. I know a lot of religious people cannot fathom the thought of not having “god” looking over their shoulder and guilting then into behaving like a good person should, but I know I don’t need any relationship with a mythological creature. I do “ good” because it’s the right thing to do and not because a bunch of old white men told me to.
Load More Replies...I am also a mormon, I would do the same things regardless of whether or not I was religious, but the point here is that the church has a mostly positive influence on the world. The point is that the church does it's best to help it's members be the best they can. And there's nothing wrong with that. Also, what does the fact that church leaders are white have to do with anything?
"Mostly positive influence"? Every queer person in CA would like to differ, for starters. You really need to learn your own church's history, son.
I know my churches history, better than you do, as judged by your false comments. The church has had a massive humanitarian campaign for years. It encourages charity as one of it's main principles, and treating everyone by the Golden Rule. I would like you to find some statistics or actual evidence if you are going to keep arguing.
Charlie, I literally have the forwarded emails from 2008 that Edgley sent out nationally about sending in money to overturn gay marriage in CA. I got them sent to me directly from multiple cousins who are members of the Mormon Temple. So either my Mormon cousins are liars, or you are.
Maxwell, he made multiple public statements, too, and church members discussed it at length multiple times. You don't need me to try to find stuff from my 2008 Hotmail account. You can read it all for yourself. I know you won't, but you can. PS: Pay your effing taxes. https://bycommonconsent.com/2010/10/02/saturday-pm-general-conference-the-hanging-by-a-thread-thread/
shut up i am a gay mormon and you are wrong. Dont assume things about large groups of people
I'm ex Mormon and it is true. And it is abusive. And it is wrong. And it's impossible to see it when you are in the middle of it. Especially when the church forbids its members from researching anything about the religion from outside sources. Read non biased, researched work on it. It will open your eyes.
...I'm literally a member and the entire focus of our Seminary class is to learn about the church from any source available, to discuss church controversy, and to look at other viewpoints. Nothing about the church is at all abusive.
"Nothing about the church is at all abusive." Flat out lie. You tell parents to reject their gay children. You force women to marry and stay married to their abusers. You keep your church members poor and reliant on the church community, so they stay trapped. Your church is goddamn poison.
No woman is forced to marry in our church, that is not true. Parents are not told to reject their gay children. We are taught to love everyone even when we disagree. How do we "keep church members poor"? What, you think the bishops are somehow colluding with the CEO's of companies to keep their members poor? Honestly, could you at least put some effort into these false clams? I can only assume you must have dealt with a splinter denomination of the Mormon church.
Sorry, Charlie, but nothing you've said is true. I've spent 50+ years dealing with your church and its members, and I've seen it all firsthand. I got to help shelter one cousin and her six kids after her good Mormon husband beat the s**t out of her again, because no one in the church would help her, since divorce is a sin. She finally listened to what her bishop told her, and went back to him, and had two more kids with him. One of those kids got to find his body hanging, and my cousin unconscious. I got to go to a funeral for two children, both beaten to death by their "good Mormon" father. I've helped bail out multiple Mormon cousins from jail on drug charges, because when the men aren't beating and raping, they're doing a whole ton of meth. I have 35+ women cousins in my generation alone who were married as teens, have at least 4-6 kids, and are all poor because 1) who can afford that many kids and 2) they have to tithe to the church, first.
That's before we get to the generations before mine, like my grandfather, who was excommunicated from the Mormon church in SLC because his parents divorced. When he needed his church community the most as a kid, the bishop used to actually drive to Gramp's school, and then FOLLOW HIM HOME IN HIS CAR, screaming out his open window about how he's going to hell because his parents divorced. And let me tell you about my great-grandma, my grandpa's mother, who was told to keep having children, despite her "women's issues." She literally bled to death because of having too many children with endometriosis. Want me to keep going? Your religion, your church, Mormons suck.
sounds like you are judging a small portion of a very large number of people. yeah, people can be horrible. but that’s everywhere. not just in the mormon church.
You can't be excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for your parents divorce. My father's parents were divorced and none of his family was excommunicated. You don't know what you're talking about, or else you are talking about one of the other denominations of Mormonism.
haha i’m mormon and know tons of mormons who are lgbtq+ and none of us are rejected.
And I know several who have killed themselves, Ada. Just because YOU haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Your self-centeredness is one of the many problems here.
And just because you saw a few bad people doesn't mean they all are. Sounds like your family was messed up and I'm sorry they did these things to you, but you cannot punish the rest of them.
Wow. The hypocrisy here is next level. You judge the Church from your own personal experiences and then refuse to let others do the same?
Karilynn I understand you don't want to hear the bad stuff about what you believe but it's beneficial to you to know all the facts so you can make an informed decision. They take that away from you when they shame your for being curious or threaten you with excommunication bc you question their authority. Believing in god may not hurt others but organized religion was built on exclusion and violence and hatred and slavery in some sense ie women being the third class behind male children while also being the scapegoats for everything evil in Mormonism
You seem to have no concept of what the Church is, as nothing you said was true. 1. The church believes men and women are equal partners, and 2., the church encourages and promotes exploring it's history, the good and the bad. My high school seminary class was all for getting into the nitty gritty.
Lily, Jan Glass is discussing horrific abuse that she and her family has endured at the hands of the Mormon church, which has clearly made you all uncomfortable. Your response to her is to shut up, stop talking about it, stop being "mean". Not one of you has bothered to listen to her with an open heart, offered any sort of kindness or empathy. You just want her to shut up. THAT behavior also says a lot about your religion.
Multiple people in my family are dead and/or have killed themselves as a direct result of abuses from the Mormon church. That's before we get into the fact that the Mormon church was instrumental in overturning gay marriage in CA in 2008--and I got all of their propaganda emails about it from my cousins, so don't claim the church wasn't involved. You openly promote racism, pedophilia, homophobia, and domestic violence, and have from the very beginning. You openly embezzle money from your members. So yeah, too bad, we're gonna say "mean things" about your disgusting religion.
We promote none of those things. "Male or female, bond or free, black or white, all are alike unto God" is a central scripture taught in our church. Our leaders have given many speeches on the evils of racism and other divisiveness. Pedophilia is strictly rejected by the Mormon church. As for homophobia, the church teaches to love our fellow man even when we disagree. Additionally, gay church members can still hold callings. You can continue to be rude if you wish, but I will remain polite.
So who is lying then, Charlie? My hundreds of Mormon relatives who share all of this with me willingly and openly, because they think it's awesome that the church is pouring money into anti-LGBTQ+ causes? Or you, who is completely unwilling to believe that your religion could possibly hurt anyone? When you yank your head out of the sand, son, you let me know, but I'm done having any sort of exchange with you about your criminal, homophobic, racist, abusive, pedophilia-infested religion.
Probably because you can't produce a shred of actual data or evidence for any of your wild claims.
No, Ada, I'm not open minded about a religion that has resulted in the deaths and murders of several of my family members, and the abuses of hundreds of others, including myself. You should think that one over. Why are you asking abuse survivors to be "open minded" about our abusers? Because YOU don't like it? It hurts YOUR feelings, upsets YOUR view of the church? I mean it. Sit down and think over why your knee-jerk reaction isn't "protect people" but rather "everyone ELSE is lying!"
Of course we don't believe you, because literally nothing you mentioned is accepted in the Church. Abusing anyone, in your family or not, is grounds for excommunication. It isn't the Church's fault if your family members were abusive.
Sit down and have a think about this, then. If it's "not accepted by the church", why does it still happen all the time? Why didn't the church help even ONE Mormon member of my family? Why didn't they help the kids, at the very least? If you have a bunch of abusive Mormons in your church, and your church does nothing about it? Guess what! That means your church protects abusers, like the ones in my family. Your church condones abuse. Your church is fine with abuse as long as the tithes keep rolling in.
Mormonism wasn't even his first attempt at a religion. He had been run out of several towns for heresy. But something about them go then tablets in that green Angel made this one a go.
If y'all wanna hear a wild story about a Native American trafficked through the Mormon church and diver deeper into their b******t I highly recommend going to findingNikita.com Her story will blow your mind!!!
Well that's just rude. Act your age please, just because we aren't talking face to face doesn't mean you shouldn't be polite.
I am under no obligation to be polite to you. You've accused me repeatedly of lying, because you are too fragile to face the fact that your religion has serious problems. Your church is responsible for the deaths and murders of at least a half-dozen people in my family, and that's before we get to the hundreds and hundreds of domestic violence cases. Hey, another one of my cousins begged the church at age 15 to let her work in the office at the SLC temple so she didn't have to marry a 30 year old man, but the elders told her that marriage and childbearing was her real duty, and off she went. She has 7 kids now, 5 in protective custody. She's an alcoholic. The older dude, of course, battered her and the kids, cheated on her constantly, and left her destitute to marry someone else. All of the kids are messed up. SUCH AWESOME FAMILY VALUES!
Until you provide some evidence, I'm inclined to think you are lying, since nothing you said is approved of by the Church, much less encouraged. Murder is grounds for excommunication. So is any kind of abuse. So is being an alcoholic or doing tons of drugs. Sounds to me like most of your family would have been excommunicated anyways. They weren't living the doctrine if they were in the church.
Does it upset you that your church is directly responsible for multiple deaths in one family alone? Did I tell you about my Mormon cousin who had a baby out of wedlock at 17? Less than two years later, she met a "nice Mormon boy" in the Army, online. He was in AZ. Three weeks--WEEKS--after their first exchange, her parents loaded her and her child up in the car to drive them out to Phoenix to marry her good Mormon Army boy. Of course, within three months, she's pregnant again, her "good Mormon Army" husband has smacked her around a few times, and abandoned her. She managed to get back home with friends' help, not the church. When she asked the church for help, she was told that she was lucky he accepted her and her bastard black child, and she needed to put effort into her marriage. Luckily, her oldest daughter was able to finally get out and live with her paternal grandma, while my cousin had 4 more kids with her good Mormon husband who left her two more times. And raped her daughter
If your family was part of the main Mormon church, which I doubt by this point, they were not at all living church principles. I don't think your family being messed up relates much to the church at all. Marrying underage, rape, having children before marriage, and spouse abuse are all banned by the church. So if your family was in the church, they are not following the church's teachings. And the church can hardly be blamed for that.
My grandfather used to point to the main temple in SLC, where my family went since they broke ground on it, and say "Look, there's Brigham Young, with his a*s to the church, and his hand out to the bank." It's the same temple where my great-grandfather and great-great grandfather were Temple Elders. Mormons, one and all, baptised, magical protective undergarments, Temple sealing, Rituals for the Dead, the works. You might want to ask why so many people have stories and knowledge of these special things if they've supposedly been banned? Maybe your church isn't as effective as you thought it was.
He was a total con man, the creation of the Mormon church just happening to be his most successful gambit.
How can u say that. He and his families live were constantly treated. He was feathers and tarred for his beliefs and then imprisoned and killed with his friends and brother. Why would anyone go through that. At any time he could of said it’s all a hoax but he didn’t.
Load More Replies...Also, each of the three witnesses left the Church over differences with it's leaders, they all maintained till death that the Book of Mormon was real.
That group is like an Incel dream, the men can have multiple wives who must all be seen and not heard not to mention do all the work whilst the man pretends to be studying his "good book"(the dumbest term ever since there's nothing good about that book).
I have never been made to feel less than men in my church and I’ve held callings where what I say is what we do. Some people are jerks like everywhere else but it’s not common or true practice.
Load More Replies...You do realize that polygamy hasn't been practiced for over a century in the LDS church?
You do realize that plenty of Mormons still practice it, and promise it in the afterlife, right? Like, I've been sealed and baptized into your church against my will because you idiots think that you get my womb to bear your spirit babies in the afterlife. You're effed up.
Look lady, there are splinter groups to mormanism, but I'm talking about the main denomination, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which has banned polygamy for over 100 years.
Ok, you don’t have to like this religion, but stop doing this. What you’re saying is incredibly rude to those who are members. Mormons don’t practice polygamy anymore, so stop spreading false information just because you don’t like this religion.
You know what's rude? That I have been spiritually "sealed" polygamously to several men in my family so that I can bear them spirit babies in the afterlife. This is literally your doctrine. We can read it right now. No, I'm not going to "stop doing this" if by that you mean stop talking about the evil, disgusting, criminal things the Mormon church has done to my family, and that I've seen my family do on behalf of the Mormon church. Wanna talk about proxy baptism, next? Because I am AN ACTUAL MEMBER OF YOUR CHURCH, several times over, thanks to that little trick.
Proxy baptism is for the dead... not living people. And we believe that the dead still have the right to accept or decline the baptism.
My aunt openly told me she'd had our entire family proxy baptized so we could be together in heaven. I've had to apply to have my name removed from the church's registry. Your church lies to you, and often.
It's not my doctrine. I can't speak for other denominations of Mormonism, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints bans polygamy in any form. I would like to see you find any doctrine at all that says polygamy is still ok in the Church.
There's plenty of Mormons with second and third wives(legally they're girlfriends/mistresses since Bigamy/Polygamy is illegal), and i don't like any religious group that constantly tries to force their faith on you. This world would be a far better and much more peaceful place if religion didn't exist.
HUH???? I though he was view by all but his followers as a Mad Man and immoral
Didn't this psycho hear from God in a hat....and people believed it?? You're all delusional!
He was a con man. When asked to reproduce destroyed parts of the Book of Mormon, he could not because there were no golden tablets to reference.
Been there. Another man using god as an excuse to “marry” 12 year old girls. But he HAD to, or they wouldn’t be able to get into heaven. A female can’t get into heaven without a husband/man “bringing” her in. He was actually sacrificing himself to help her eternally… said no scared/bullied 12 year old girl, ever. - Not all religion is bad. What’s bad is when power corrupts & people stop questioning what they once would have considered shameful/corrupt.
He admitted to fraud and attempts to bamboozle the religious people of the day to get money. Not surprising, now, that the Mormon Church is now one of the richest in the world.
I was raised in a militantly Mormon family & community. There is more not said than what is actually going on. Give a man power & religion to hide behind & the devil has a hay day. - Not all Mormons are bad, like any group of people there are genuinely good people amongst the bad ones, but you have to admit, religion is all geared towards the subjugation of women so men can get away with horrific behavior & acts. As a woman, I escaped, & could never recommend organized religion to any woman. Ever. RUN! As far away as you can get!
The Mormon religion says Jesus and Satan are brothers. Both sons of god but by different wives.
Not true. We believe that God only had one wife, and that all his children came from that relationship. Please don't spread false information.
Load More Replies...Charlie, cut it out. It is literally in your doctrine. You're lying because you know your church lies, but you don't want to face it. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1986/06/i-have-a-question/how-can-jesus-and-lucifer-be-spirit-brothers-when-their-characters-and-purposes-are-so-utterly-opposed?lang=eng
What's your point? It says nothing about God having multiple wives. Yes, we do believe that Jesus and Lucifer were brother, the same way we believe we are all spiritual children of God. Cain and Abel were brothers too. My brothers and I have almost nothing in common. I told no lies in any way.
"It doesn't say that! Okay, it says that, but it means ____." You know that we're used to your b.s. gaslighting and twisted rhetoric, right? If you have to keep rationalizing and justifying these things, maybe it's time for you to take a close look at the ACTUAL history of your religion. We're not angry or rude or mean because we're persecuting YOU. We're angry BECAUSE YOUR RELIGION HAS CAUSED US UNDUE HARM, ABUSE, AND DEATH. Did I tell you about my little cousin, two years old, who died from his Mormon dad shaking him to death? When my cousin, his wife, tried to leave him with the other kids, their bishop in SoCal said "no, no, you can't break up a family!" Back she and the kids went. Her oldest son finally had to punch his dad out to keep him from beating on the younger kids, but YAY, FAMILY! F*ck Mormons.
Find me some proof that my religion, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, approves any of that through doctrine. I haven't had tor rationalize anything, since you have yet to show some data or facts besides your messed up family relations.That sounds harsh, but it's true.
Ok, it just sounds like your family was messed up, but that's not what they're like. You're literally using the exact same argument every time.
The people here commenting about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are honestly dead wrong. The church has its whole history posted and reviewed. All of the facts are laid out in plain sight. You can research all of the archives that the world has about Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and the rest of church history here. Literally any subject: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics?lang=eng There are pages and pages of "horrible" stuff that Joseph Smith Jr. Did on the internet from other sources that are all lies. Why? Because at the time 'Mormons' were persecuted and hunted down. All types of lies were invented, and all types of false information was brought up against him because the religious contempt was horrible at that time. The proof: Joseph Smith was arrested 42 times. Arrested and brought in for trial. He was ultimately found guilty: Zero times. doesn't that say something? Why dont you read the book of Mormon and then judge him?
I have read the book of Mormon and it is something else. In a good way. Please read it, it's amazing.
Load More Replies...https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/conference/august-2006/legal-trials-of-the-prophet-joseph-smiths-life-in-court
You DO realize that most of us commenting are ex-Mormons, or have family members still in the church, right? Who is going to be honest about the church's many crimes and abuses, those of us who escaped, or those of you who are still enmeshed in it? You white dudes who benefit from it most? Son, I've seen it all firsthand. Mormons were persecuted BECAUSE THEY RAPE AND MARRY CHILDREN. That is fact. Those are my ancestors and relatives. Dude, you're not the victims, you're the problem.
Which church do you mean? It sounds like your family was either part of some splinter sect of Mormonism or they did not follow church doctrine because both rape and pedophilia are strongly disavowed by the church.
They attend the temples in SLC, LA, and FL. Such radical splinter groups, I'm sure.
From what you've said they've done, they should be excommunicated. If all of that's true, I would contact a church authority and tell them about it.
YOU stop being so mean. And criminal. And abusive. If your fee-fees are hurt that someone has decades of evidence that your church and religion are a problem, quit whining AND FIND OUT. Start looking up court cases. Talk to those of us who got out. Just read Krakaur's book. If you think I'm lying? GO FIND OUT. If your biggest concern is "Waaaah, they're being mean!" then you are in no position to assess the abuses those of us suffered for decades and generations at the hands of your church. Pedophelia is just the tip of the disgusting iceberg.
It's not the rudeness I dislike, it's the untruth. If there is so much evidence, show some.
This is not true. He didn't send other men away to marry their wives. And in regards to the 14 year old wife, her father wanted to connect himself with the leaders of the church, so he took it into his own hands to marry his daughter to Joseph. They did not live together nor did they sleep together, and as one critic of Smith said "their relationship was spiritual in variety". Regardless of any of this, younger people married far older people during that time period. Some of the earliest age of consent laws came out in 1885, and they varied from age 10-12 depending on the state. So for his time period, it was quite progressive for Joseph to tell people to wait until they were 16 to have sexual relations with their spouses.
Him or Brigham Young? Have not read too deeply but there seems to be a big divergence in the organization with the change in leadership. Both were questionable but give "credit" to the right person.
It was Joseph Smith, Brigham Young was his best friend and fellow pedophile. Joseph Smith told his followers that God had told him a piece of land that he was supposed to have and for them to settle on. Unfortunately for them God hadn't bothered dimension the first Native people that were already living on the land. Joseph Smith had convinced them that they could just kill the indigenous people and it would be all right. After 2/3 of them were killed including Joseph Smith Brigham Young, beg then indigenous people to please let the remainder of them just leave and they won't bother them anymore and he did not stop until he got to Utah.
Well none of that was true. Joseph Smith was killed in liberty jail by a mob, and Brigham young was nowhere near the area when the murder occurred. Also, the Black Hawk War, the main conflict between the Native Americans and the Mormon pioneers occurred years after Joseph's death, and was sparked because the Utes thought the Mormon were using supernatural means to kill them (smallpox), and the pioneers thought the Utes were killing their cattle and trying to drive them out of yet another territory.
One of my ancestors who made the trek to SLC with BY wrote a book about it. It's true. They believed that if the Native people living there rejected their word of God, they deserved to die. Genocide is just one of the charming features of Mormonism.
Where is this information in the comments coming from? It all sounds extremely false.
I wish it was all false, but having grown up Mormon and done lots of research I can tell you this is true. If you want more info read the CES Letter, it has a website with all the references and quotes from church leaders
Load More Replies...Much of it is. The church is very open about it's history. If you want to know anything remotely true about the church, look it up on the church website or Wikipedia or something. The people on this site are heavily biased against religion.
Charlie, we're heavily biased against abuse. It turns out that religion is one of the main perpetrators of said abuse. Especially Mormons. You formed the He Men's Woman Hater Club and called it religion. I've dealt with your b.s. for decades. You're either lying, or you don't actually know your own church's history. Go talk to the ones of us who left, and find out why.
Seems to me you know nothing about the church at all. The church is very against any kind of abuse, and promotes men and women as equal partners in a relationship. You have yet to produce a shred of evidence for any of your false claims. As for me, I haven't done anything to you. I don't even know who you are. You don't even know me, and yet you go out of your way to throw hatred at me. What a funny world.
The church may be "against" it, but every single time a woman in my family has gone to them for help with abuse issues, they are told to return to their marriages or they will be excommunicated. So who's lying? 50+ of my Mormon cousins? Or you? Don't forget, I know all of this firsthand, because I've been a member of your church, and my family have been Mormons since the 1850s. And I really, really hate abuse and domestic violence. If you think that is "personal hatred" towards you, it's time for you to sit down and have a good, long think about that.
You literally cannot be excommunicated for divorce, my grandparents are both members and divorced. SO again this is either false or your family is part of some other faction of Mormonism.
My family helped found the Mormon temple in SLC, and I have four generations of Temple Elders on that side. All of my aunts, several uncles, and most of my cousins on that side of the family are still involved in the church. I can tell you how much Mormons suck going back 12-14 generations, if you'd like. Do you want to know how many dead bodies we have in my family thanks to the Mormon church?
The more I read of your comments, the more I doubt your family's problem was church attendance.
I've looked through all these comments and it seems that Mrs. Jan Glass has a lot of opinions but no sources to back them up.
Maxwell, you are perfectly capable of going to a library, or looking up court cases, or even just talking to others. There are huge communities of ex-Mormons who will provide you with more information. There are plenty of sources. I have been doxxed by the Mormon church before, and there is no way I am giving you any information that will include my family's names/identifying information. You want sources? I mean it: go talk to ex-Mormons. Ask one or two questions. That's all you have to do. They will make sure you have documents, stories, books, histories, tax records, whatever you need. You won't, though, because you are afraid to question it.
Load More Replies...Look, Maxwell! Look at all of the sources you and others here can access!
We all live in a FREE country don't disrespect others religious belives
Bull. Religion in this country has taken away more rights than anything else. As long as Christians are going to call me a wh*re for having an abortion and tell LGBTQ+ citizens that they're going to burn in hell, I will disrespect their stupid, backward, idiotic beliefs until my dying day. To hell with religion.
Load More Replies...Your argument is foolish. Personal experience is a dumb basis to generalize an entire group from. I personally do not approve abortion, but there is no reason to be rude about it. Our church teaches to love everyone regardless of their choices because we are all God's children. You cannot take experience you have had with a single religious group and then project that onto an entire religion. That is stupid, backward, and idiotic.
"Personal experience is a dumb basis to generalize an entire group from" Hang on... can't stop laughing.... Child, personal experience is THE MOST ACCURATE THING to base this on! Yes, I can absolutely take my experiences with Mormons and "project" it onto... Mormons. You don't know what you're talking about because your church lies to you. I know it's scary to face this, but you don't get to keep hand-waving these abuses away.
Generalization is a logical fallacy and an incoherent argument. A few experiences you have had do not reflect the entire church at large. Your personal experience is therefore biased, making it one of the least accurate things to hinge an argument on. Regardless, your personal experience is not incredibly common either, in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints that is. I cannot speak for splinter sects or other denominations of Mormonism, but as for my Church, abuse is neither common, condoned, or promoted.
So my personal experiences don't count, but yours do? Sure, sure. But Charlie, did I tell you about my Mormon cousin Brenda? She was 15, went on a date with her Mormon boyfriend, and he was pressuring her to go further sexually than she wanted. She said no, but he pushed and pushed, and forced her to engage in some "just the tip" action, according to her. That's how she got pregnant with her first kid. So now she's been married for 30 years to an alcoholic who raped her, cheats on her constantly and has at least one other kid outside their marriage, and has been in jail multiple times for DUIs. They're currently raising 4 of their 6 grandchildren, because all of their kids are eff-ups. But they still tithe every week, so awesome, right?!
We don't believe in sexual relations until after marriage, so the boyfriend in the story was not following our rules. We aren't allowed to drink alcohol either, and spouse abuse is obviously out of the question. It's odd to me that you keep bringing up people that are obviously not following the Church's doctrine as examples of the church.
Being in a "free" country means she can say whatever the hell she wants. Don't like it, leave.
Interesting that you don't think child rape, murder, and embezzlement is "bad enough." You might want to learn a little more about your buddy, hon. I know you won't, though, because religious people, especially Mormons, don't want to question their entire screwy belief system.
Load More Replies...Explain. I want sources, evidence, and proof before you accuse Joseph Smith of any of that. I'll wait while you find nothing. C'mon, put your money where your mouth is instead of making false claims with no evidence.
It's well-documented history. You can find it anywhere. This isn't something secret, except to other Mormons. But I'll happily introduce you to my multiple Mormon women cousins who were forced into abusive marriages as teens, and then told to stay in those abusive marriages. We're now dealing with mutli-generational abuse and poverty as a direct result, because when you're 5, and walk in to find your dad's dead body hanging, or see him whaling on your pregnant mom yet again, and you beg your church for help and they tell you this is "God's will" and to "pray," you end up damaged for the rest of your life. Every single Mormon member of my family is poor, on drugs/an alcoholic, with too many kids, raising their own grandkids, and abusive/abused. A half-dozen in jail. All direct results of the church. Mormonism sucks.
...and still no statistics or evidence I see, still focusing on anecdotes. Three major points. 1. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints does not allow marriage until you are a legal adult, and only in the temple. So if your cousins were married before they were adults, then they must have been part of a different denomination of Mormonism. 2. Church members are not allowed to drink alcohol or use any form of addictive substance, so again, either your family way part of some other church or they did not practice church doctrine. 3. Spouse abuse or any kind of abuse is staunchly opposed by the church. It does not sound to me that your family is involved with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in any way.
And yet it all happens, and keeps happening. Golly! This is commonly found information if you spend 30 seconds looking. Even if I were to provide you with court cases, pictures of my cousins' bruises or jail paperwork or whatever, or the books my ancestors wrote about settling SLC, you still wouldn't believe me, because you value faith over facts. But when you have to have an actual, entire Wikipedia entry about your church's history of sexual abuse, that's saying something. thttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_abuse_cases
This is a direct quotation from that link. "The LDS Church states that abusive behavior, whether physical, sexual, verbal, or emotional, is a sin and is condemned unreservedly by the church.[49] The church teaches that victims of abuse should report it to their bishop or other trusted leadership, and should be assured that they are not to blame for the abuse. Bishops and other trusted leaders are told by the church to contact the church's Help Line before any further reporting takes place.[49] Abuse of any form should be reported not only by the bishop but also by the victim to local law enforcement.[49]" of course there will be bad people in any group, but you'll notice the church doesn't permit or defend abusers, as many of these people were excommunicated.
You can tell me what they SAY all you want, Charlie. I have fifty years experiencing what they DO, and it ain't this. You need to ask your "trusted leaders" why they fail so many of the women in their church. Stop talking to me, go talk to them.
Yeah, being rude makes you sound really smart K Wit. Really mature of you.
Churchill. He started the Bengal Famine which killed 3 million people. He also was incredibly racist and liked killing through gas.
Winston Churchill, a hero according to the UK & US. Churchill carried out a genocide in India (4+ million killed through deliberate famine). And Churchill believed that eugenics could solve race deterioration and reduce crime and poverty. US & UK were very much on the side of Hitler, until they realized that he posed a threat to their power on the global stage. That seems to be missing in the narrative of why WW2 started.
Andrew Jackson.
He’s always presented as the “common man’s president” but he treated the Native American’s terribly . He also had a huge rowdy party and trashed the White House
Travis Scott, still ain’t over what insane s**t he did
Oliver Cromwell
Tried to make England a republic, ended up being a king in all but name. Butchered the Irish, banned Christmas and is partially responsible for the puritans (who fled to America after the monarchy was restarted)
Charlie Chaplin definitely. Dude groped/assaulted girls and married a woman 40 years younger than him
First wife had (falsely) announced a pregnancy at 16, then they married, later divorced. Second wife announced pregnancy at 15, he married her, otherwise might have been prosecuted because she was a minor when she got pregnant. Also divorced. Marriage no. 3 was relatively unspectacular age wise (she was 21). Within and in between marriages multiple affairs. His last wife, Oona, was 18 when they married (he was 54). They stayed together until his death, had eight children. (All according to Wikipedia - not good, but I found no 40 year age gap).
Benito Juárez
He was the type of president who kills his opposition instead of negotiating. He did a lot of illegal executions.
He was going to be executed in Guadalajara, however one of his ministers convinced the soldiers not to kill him with a famous phrase "alto, los valientes no asesinan", the soldiers forgave his life and risked theirs as the disobey an order. Well, as soon as Juarez returned to Mexico city, he immediately ordered to kill all of those soldiers with no mercy (source: my sister worked with the Sargent's descendant)
After Juárez's government, there's a period Known as the porfiriato, where Porfirio Díaz was Mexico's president for 30 years. It was possible just because there was no opposition alive
Juarez suddenly died in 1872 from a heart attack. It's believed that a woman, to avenge his husband, worked on his home as a maid, and when she had the opportunity, she put an infusion of "veintiunilla'" a herb known by the natives for being poisonous and cause a heart attack 21 days (veintiún dias) after it was drank
This. Not to mention he reformed the Mexican state by removing the church influence (which was not wrong) only to enrich himself and his family with all the resources confiscated. Also, he was indigenous but ashamed of it so he was extremely racist. If he hadn't died, he was ready to change the law to stay in power indefinitely.
Andy Warhol was a fraud and an abuser.
The book Edie is a great read, but sad.
Warhol wasn't great as a person, but I've done a little research into him. He was a complex person who suffered in some ways. He did horrible things, but he also served at his church's homeless shelter well into his later years. Derinitely suffered from trauma and possibly depression.
Dr Suess cheated on his partially disabled wife and she eventually committed suicide because of how distraught she was.
“I am too old and enmeshed in everything you do and are, that I cannot conceive of life without you,”
Kinda coming much more into light now but The Founding Fathers, all of them owned slaves and by modern day standards they would be horrible people. But something I think lots of people don’t remember is even if these things are utterly reprehensible, everyone was doing it and they were all children of their time.
I really dislike the impulse to classify people as 100% good or 100% bad. Humans are flawed. Just because some of their actions were contemptible (by todays standards) doesn't mean their accomplishments should be erased from history. Just because they accomplished great things doesn't mean that their misdeeds should be brushed under the carpet.
Watch it. U gonna get cancelled, buddy. How dare u look at both sides of something. U are so 20th Century.
Load More Replies...It’s also important to remember their cultural context. If you’re going to be great and remembered, you have to be somewhat ruthless.
Some of these actions are contemptible by any standards. Mother t acted with impunity bc "the church and god" had her back.
Don't rape anyone, murder anyone, persecute anyone, assault anyone, ruin anyone, groom anyone, or buy anyone as chattel, and you get to be flawed without harsh judgment. But these listed "flaws" are beyond the pale of just being "flawed." Also, if you're referring to the likes of the Founding Fathers, their "accomplishments" for purely for themselves, and their sins were wrong by ANY era's standards.
The problem is, that the accomplishments of God knows how many peole have been brushed under the carpet because of men like these. And the problem iss, that we humans still have this urge to hero worship. We need to rewrite history, dig up the forgotten und try to change ourselves if we are indeed striving for a better future. Because if we don't there will be countless geniuses who will never get the chance to accomplish somethign great because they are POC or female or handicapped.
Trump is not universally beloved he is an effing joke
Load More Replies...A lot of people where i am believe he is a great man a man of progress ans power ao i see where oc is coming from a lot of people are delusional enough to still belove him thats ehy you still get campaigns that regard him
Obviously, you are not an American citizen. We had the best economy when President Trump was in office. Gas was half the cost it is now, and the same goes for groceries. Many of us are in our 70s and are still having to work just to make ends meet, whereas three years ago, we were planning to retire.
Oh- you mean like the dementia pedo in chief who needs the Easter bunny to get him out of trouble?
The dude we have now is a COWARD but at least hes not a hot-air head. All respect, i do not like either of them as im a part of neither parties. Sorry. But this is just how it is. As voters we are given the right to choose between 2 bad people. Our government is corrupted
Putin was afraid of President Trump; he now laughs at the demented old man who lies every time he opens his mouth.
It was obvious from the start Trump didn't, and still doesn't, understand the job of President, or how government works, or history, or the consequences of his actions. Then, he actively plotted to overthrow the Constitution of the United States and the rule of law. If you think that's a "pretty damn good job," you are really not qualified to vote.
But that can be proven. He’s said awful things in videos before and after he was President. His followers explain what he meant when he said something stupid or hateful. Throughout his presidency he told the fold that he was working on whatever issue and he’d reveal it in two weeks. Never happened. He didn’t really grasp the job he held or that he worked for the entire country..
Just one point - the Dem Party at this moment DO NOT IN ANY WAY work for the people of this country. They work to empower themselves, and makes sure they stay relevant, no matter who they destroy. You think Nancy gives a rat's a**e about us, when she has her Sub Zero fridge with its 19 flavors of ice cream - just to name one of the Ruling Oligarchy. And my neighbors are worrying about how they're going to feed their kids decent meals, and be able to afford gas and electric? Not. One. Bit.
I agree, Biden is not a great president. Our choices during the election were absolute s**t. But he's still better than Trump. I hope for a day when we have more than two shitty choices for president.
No. He is much, much worse. We now have thought police and a department of truth- we have a demented pedophile in office. How the f**k can anyone expect that is better?
You conservatives *love* to throw around pedo insults, don't you? The sad part is, none of you realize how pathetic and ridiculous you look to the rest of the world. I pity you in your ignorance. Produce proof - put up or shut up.
I am pretty sure the the vast majoprity of the world has a good idea who Trump really is. History will never glorify him.
And what about those of us who get to look in with a dispassionate eye? Those of us who get access to media that hasn’t got an axe to grind and that isn’t paid for by media moguls who have skin in the game? I reckon he’s pretty close to the man I think he is.
Well, even so, we really don't know the long term effects of his presidency, so I'm unwilling to say he's one of our worst presidents. Give it 50 years or so and then let's take a look at what he had an effect on. Edit to clarify that I'm not a Trump supporter and I have to say he's the worst in MY lifetime, but since I'm 16 that doesn't mean a lot.
TheDevineMsM: HA! ... look at a lot the people on this list... it might take YEARS to find out the true extent how TRULY DISGUSTING AND AWFUL TRUMP WAS. I mean we lived with the guy for 4 years and only with the J6 hearing are we finding more garbage this man did. So in 30 years, 50 years it's gonna blow the roof off.
We definitely know that Trump lied constantly. Not about debatable things, either, but demonstrably false claims an average of seven times a day. No Trump supporter should ever be throwing stones about anyone lying lol
Elon Musk should be top of this list. Donald Trump, too. And for all that "Foundation" stuff, I've heard Bill Gates is a real..... But they're all idolized by many. To the devotees of Elon, please bear in mind we're not all Elonites, and can state our opinions without it rending the fabric of time-space to shreds :-)
But the point was to shed light on horrible people who the public seem to love. Most normal, intelligent human beings despise both of those "people" already.
Load More Replies...Kristin Ingersoll... are you serious.??? There are millions of Trumppete cult members would love to vote Trump back into the WH, in 2024. People around the world despise Trump but that doesn't mean he doesn't have morons willing to storm the Capitol and over throw Democracy for Trump. Trump is in awe of Putin and Kim and MBS (Saudi prince)... why? ....because they can kill people with impunity. He would do that to all Democrats and people of color, if he could have. ( That would have pleased his base no end.) Absolute power is what he wanted.
Trump is a given, he's pond scum. But you know who's missing? Walt Disney. He was anti-Semitic and sexist as well. LOTS of people don't want to hear that.
Elon's not the messiah his fans make him to be and not deserving of the devotion he receives, but is actually a bad person or have done horrible things?
He bought Twitter instead of, oh, I dunno.... paying off part of the national debt, or feeding a continent for 10 years, or starting research to cure cancer.... So he's a diary of Big Talk No Do IMO
Bahahaha! Why in the world would he give his money to bail a government that already horribly mismanaged everything they have right now. And research for the cure of cancer has been underway for decades now, just FYI
@soggy, for lack of a few million --- not billion ---- we could have a lot more. So, research needs money. I'm *in medical research*. Ai-yi-yi.
Twitter's owners just received 44 billions, they can do all the things you mentioned.
@Rob Eman, or he could've spent the billions on helping the planet we're *on*... And Columbus didn't do sh*t but kill, so that's kinda not helping your argument, IMO.
Elon Musk is no genius. Check out the YT channel "Adam Something" and "Common Sense Sceptic".
The problem with some of these is that people often do both good and bad things with their lives. Same with each of us, many of us have done bad things. Different shades of grey. Without a doubt, most of the peeps in this list are darker shades of grey, don’t get me wrong! But if we discredit anything someone does because of something bad they’ve done, well, there’d be no good person list. Lennon for example…surely a d*^k, but we also can’t discredit the impact he’s had on music. I feel it’s ok to recognize both the good and bad a person’s done, and to not ignore either.
It's gone now, but that John Wayne one was a crazy night. It was the Oscars and Marlon Brando was awarded something. But he sent Sacheen Littlefeather in his stead to decline and instead read a speech about the desecration and ethnocide of Native American culture and history. Wayne was certainly a piece of work in is own right, and went to pull her off stage but was restrained by a bunch of people so never actually laid a hand on her. It was quite the scandal and nothing since has really compared to the impact of that night.
The two have been compared a lot, but I'd argue the Littlefeather one still outdoes the Will Smith incident. If it had been a full beatdown, maybe. Nothing even remotely controversial (at the time) had ever happened before and this was not only a little controversial, but hit on several fronts. So it would've been like going to a Supreme Court hearing, one of the clerks of the court saying they'd be talking on behalf of one of the justices during an actual case, then the whole place turns into a rave for 10 min.
There is already too much hate in the world today. Do we really need any more?
Well, you read it on someone's comment on BoredPanda. It must be true.
Interesting to read the list. So much of it is from toxic masculinity, misogyny, racism, religious based BS and classism.
Ok so Nelson Mandela beating his wife ( and talking about it openly in his biography) is not a big deal I guess.
Not to mention his friendships with some horrible people.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/12/10/the-last-great-liberator-why-mandela-made-and-stayed-friends-with-dictators/
Load More Replies...Surprised at how far I had to scroll to see his name come up! A horrible racist who even ensured that his racist movies could not be remade
Load More Replies...Comments about racism for most of these people seems a little thoughtless. Is racism bad? Of course. However, all of the people are products of their time period and judging them based on values of the currently evolved societal values is not logical or fair
Exactly. If you're raised in a racist community, you will become racist too. It's hard to break this circle
Load More Replies...It's strange bc I was raised around racist people and from a very young age I felt it like a gut punch every time a relative said something racist. I went to school in a very white community still I knew it was wrong at 7 yrs old when I heard my dad say something so off the wall to me. I physically lost the air in my lungs and lost respect for him. I'll never forget it. I remember what I was wearing what car we were in what song was on the radio where we were going what my step mother was wearing it's seared into my brain. I remember my face got red hot and I wanted to cry and yell. That was 43 yrs ago. I think you can feel when something is wrong and violent in your gut whether you were taught the opposite. I guess it's empathy
Some of these I don't think should be on this list. Others definitely should though. I kind of think some people are getting false information for a couple of them. Just be sure to do your research people, before idolizing or hating. And remember that we are all humans that are victim to our time of living! Such as slavery and racism. It is absolutely not okay, but in their time, it was not widely understood.
Every-one have a right to their opinion,right or wrong,reserched or not...like Cnn and Fox-news...all I know is that a friend of mine,English.worked as a voluntary for Mother Theresa in Calcutta for two years in the end 60ties....never saw or talked of abuse...she did become a vegetarian,saying having seen so many open wounds put her off meat...can well believe it.. India is not known for their compassion with the plight of poor people and Mother theresa was the first to take in the lowest of the lowest to better their lives....If it went to her head later in life,who knows?? power corrupts...
I have mixed feelings about some individuals on this list. Humans are human. If you dig deep enough into any individual, you’ll find something dark. However, I have less respect for individuals that acted on those dark thoughts in a way that affected others negatively.
So much of what men in positions of control and dominance (I refuse to keep misusing the word - power) did is only now being fully questioned. So yes, all those from the past might have done good deeds in their professions, but personal lives were horrifically flawed due to emotional immaturity as we see today, the cause and root of all our woes. Humanity needs a wake up call to all the still engaged immaturity actions in order to correct the issues we are still dealing with from all the fallout of that emotional irresponsibility.
I would hazard a guess that, if you ALL looked back far enough in your own family trees, you'd be surprised at some of the evil shite that you'd find there. Are some of these people evil? Certainly, without a doubt... but the majority of these posts are of long dead people, and in every case, only one side of the story is told. There are THREE sides to every story... what "party A" said, what "party B" said, and what REALLY happened. Not ONE single, reliable source has been included in these posts to prove what the poster has stated. "Those who live in glass houses, should not throw stones". I do not condone the actions of anyone mentioned in these posts, and I despise evil in all its forms, but I can pretty much guarantee that there isn't a single person posting in this article, whose family tree does not have some evil roots somewhere down the line. NONE of us are perfect.
All people are flawed and make mistakes, because they are people, hopefully so we or others can learn from them. They behaviour was related to the time they lived in; to write a character assassination of people who have done great things that have benefited the world is just distasteful, woke, cancel culture snowflake b******t, even though they may have done horrible things, haven’t we all. Im not sure anyone of us should judge.
Nature is cruel and makes many people have troublesome urges. Yet there are still plenty of people who think whatever is natural is good. No surprise people used to be cruel through most of the history, especially as the urges of those in power were normalized.
I don't understand how Rhodes, of "The Rhodes Scholar" fame, didn't make the list.
Michelangelo! He was run out of multiple towns, he was repeatedly suspected of pedo crimes against his young models. The Catholic Church in part helped him stay ahead of the claims, and paid him to continue the abuse under the guise of “art.”
Too often “genius” comes with an enormous slice of poor character. This just substantiates it.
Lol. Weird use of the word "genius" when I look at list above. Scientifically I can only see 1 on the list (though the list partially debunks that claim...)
Load More Replies...Genius is a term that can be applied to any field — the hard sciences, soft sciences, the arts, etc. etc. It refers to developing new concepts, presenting accepted ideas in a new perspective. It challenges people to look at their lives, their worlds in new and different ways. Regardless of the negative characteristics of these individuals and the fact that in all likelihood even if I had the opportunity, I would not have invited them to dinner, they still have fulfilled that definition of “genius.”
Anybody who likes this kind of stuff should check out the podcast "Evil Genius" by Russell Kane, which essentially puts a comedy spin on this. Though hosted and panelled by comedians, it is genuinely thought provoking and there's several people featured on the show with whom my perception has been significantly altered.
Funny how no bl*ck people are labeled racist, even though some are.
After all they were human beings. The way these persons were brought up and the prevailing social norms decided their personality & behaviour. Moreover common man always try to find lacuna among stalwarts. Karamchand Gandhi doesn’t deserve Mahatma title nor Mother Teressa a Noble prize or sainthood. ( Without any prejudice, they had immense good qualities, but their dark secrets never come in limelight)
I agree with many of these, but a lot of them are "Heroes always have feet of clay" kinds of things. Show me any person who has done great work in the world and it's likely you will find other things they've done that are horrible. Maybe don't worship people no matter what good things they've done. A few of these were people who behaved exactly as was expected of them culturally at the time. That doesn't make it okay, but it does mean that we are not in a position to judge. I guarantee that 100 years from now some of our greatest figures will turn out to have had some pretty horrible skeletons in their closets.
There's some real propaganda believers in some of these incomplete bios.
Where much is given, much is taken away. You really shouldn't ever meet people who achieve greatness; they're always deeply flawed and missing other areas.
Stauffenberg. Everybody remembers the attempted assassination of Hitler. Nobody remembers the fact he was just as much of a nationalist antisemite.
really disappointing to see bored panda promoting 'hate'. there is no such thing as a perfect human being. no one's life should be dismissed, nor should someone be hated, simply because they were, as all of us are, flawed human beings.
We just need to accept that men before a certain time, did not think of women as human beings. Many still don't. In the mind of these men, women, POCs, handicapped people are all inferior creatures - something akin to trained monkey - and treated as such.
This is such black and white thinking. And not everyone is racist lol good grief guys
I miss Martin Luther here. He, basically, wrote all the jew-related parts of "Mein Kampf" 500 ears before, Mr. Hitler just had to copy them. More than once, he did so word for word, and still, Luther is seen as that liberator of europe. He never was. Other Theologians of his time were disgusted about his antijudaism and how he'd like it executed.
Those that scream the loudest for extreme measures, will be those that the future will show to have been doing horrible things. The only difference is that while just until the recent past any spoken or written word disapeared into nothingness quite quickly and tge vast majority of the population of bad people was never punished for their actions and words. This will be different in the future. Both, extreme left and right sentiments will be punished in the future. And only people using their brain will make the cut in the long run. This, or society collapses.
Ah, and all people are pretty or horrendously horrible by todays standard. Some by the standard the time they lived. But depending on how history plays out, it differs. One example: if a rightful heir to tge zarist throne would exist, and would help the West to overthrow Putin, but wanted to establish a different form of russia, we would celebrate, even if it came at a horrible price. If Putin wins and gradually establishes a new Worldorder, ppl would be brainwashed, and sing Songs about defending Putin. And hate the evil heir, and the West. If you believe that you were not brainwashed, you err. Everybody is. The crux is to use your brain, to inform yourself, and to think. But don't follow Conspiracies. Find your own path.
How about Frank Lloyd Wright who left his wife with six children, defaulted on child support, and lived a luxurious life style? FLW treated his married mistress to a life of extended travels to Japan and Europe. She also had to worry, though, about how he never paid his bills and had to skirt these issues with him, as well as some trust issues. Women were very attracted to him because of his fame as an architect and high living. He moved her up to his home, Taliesen, in Spring Green, Wisconsin, leaving her alone to manage their workers while he commuted back and forth to Oak Park and Chicago, where he worked for the Century of Progress World’s Fair prior to its opening. This ultimately led to her gruesome death and those of her two children. He had sent her a Barbadosian couple as servants to help out.Unfortunately, they were not emotionally stable, and caused a grisly death scene of fire and machete. Frank grieved for a short time, then went on to several more mistresses and wives.
I didn't know about many details, but in general, I don't tend to like historical figures, precisely because I really ignore what they really were like. As some people said, history is written by the winners, and though not everything is about wars, in general obviously most of what we know about these figures is basically hearsay. Heck, even people that is alive today or that you got to know in your lifetime, you don't really get to know them personally, but at least you have a closer idea than someone that has been dead for decades. Personally, other than Britney Spears I've never idolized anyone, and even I recognize her defects.
All these posts neglect that people do bad things, atrocious things at times, because we all fail to be perfect. Yet even with the flaws in their character, many people still contribute to society thru their creativity and innovation, which does not negate their bad behavior, if true, but also does not negate what they contributed.
If anybody would ever take the time to actually read the Bible instead of just bashing it it clearly tells us in the book of Psalms 146:3 Do not put your trust in nobles. Nor in the son of earthly man to whom no salvation belongs. Cant put it any clearer.
Not everyone believes in your Bible so your point doesn't stand. I've read the Bible I'm a recovering Catholic it furthered my justification in atheism.
Load More Replies...Honestly..... Are we even surprised at this? Humans are awful creatures. Higher intelligence does not make for a better species. We all suck.
sooooo humans being (bad) humans. Just cuz they are famous doesn't make any of them good.
So basically humans suck and nothing has changed since the beginning of time.
David Bowie ... he slept with and dated a 13-14 year old, who he cheated on with several men and women.
Steve Tyler of Aerosmith groomed a 14 yr old got her parents to sign rights over to him so he could adopt her then moved her into his home got her pregnant and forced her to have an abortion.
Load More Replies...Basically none of these are beloved. Most of them achieved some kind of widespread good, we celebrate that part, we don't really celebrate any of them as a person.
Please add Margret Mead, Ayn Rand, Margret Thatcher, Joan Crawford, and Pope John Paul 2.
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To all the people actively contributing to hate - I recommend the photo of a mirror as the number 1 post. Like so many of us are loveable saints... 🙄
I doubt that many of the commenters are widely beloved/idolised and, from the other side, sold children, enslaved people etc.
Load More Replies...Not widely beloved and we aren't historic figures either. People are forgetting that aspect when coming up with some of these names.
Enid Blyton. the British children's Author famous for The Famous Five, The Secret Seven, Mallory Towers, Noddy, Mr. Galliano's Circus and The Faraway Tree etc. She was a prolific writer' but a horrible person. She had a series of affairs, including a lesbian relationship with one of the children's nannies. In 1941, Blyton met Kenneth Fraser Darrell Waters, a London surgeon with whom she began a serious affair. Pollock discovered the liaison, and threatened to initiate divorce proceedings. Due to fears that exposure of her adultery would ruin her public image, it was ultimately agreed that Blyton would instead file for divorce against her husband Major Hugh Alexander Pollock Blyton promised that if he admitted to infidelity, she would allow him parental access to their daughters; but after the divorce, he was denied contact with them, and Blyton made sure he was subsequently unable to find work in publishing. Pollock, having married Crowe on 26 October 1943, eventually resumed his heavy drinking and was forced to petition for bankruptcy in 1950.
All this "reimagining" of historic figures and events reeks of its own racism. I'll no longer be following your page. The cism and slavery that occured in America, more than 200 years ago, does not justify anyone being racist now. The focus on American slavery highlights how little black Americans know about the history of slavery in general. Look up the tomb of Ramesses III, it was built thousands of years before American slavery existed and one of the first things you will notice on the left wall near the entrance is a scene of DISTINCTLY African slaves engraved into it. (You can explore the burial site yourself on the Matterport website, it's free and doesn't require registration) my point is so much blame is put on America's past that black American's aren't learning about other important times in history. Depriving them of the knowledge of their past, especially in their native homeland, is a negative for everyone. I hope you guys check out the tomb in Egypt, it is truly amazing.
This rant is nonsensical. Idk what you're trying to achieve. Most of these people should've been in prison. Yeah some are being outed as liar cheaters bad parents so what? We can all make up our minds about that as well. Why are you so against the truth? It's not judgment when it's a factual statement. I can forgive or understand when people make mistakes I've made mistakes I've hurt people I've also taken responsibility and I also know I can't force anyone to accept my apology and will forever be not liked by someone. However I can't forgive rapists or pedophiles I don't have it in me.
I really dislike the impulse to classify people as 100% good or 100% bad. Humans are flawed. Just because some of their actions were contemptible (by todays standards) doesn't mean their accomplishments should be erased from history. Just because they accomplished great things doesn't mean that their misdeeds should be brushed under the carpet.
Watch it. U gonna get cancelled, buddy. How dare u look at both sides of something. U are so 20th Century.
Load More Replies...It’s also important to remember their cultural context. If you’re going to be great and remembered, you have to be somewhat ruthless.
Some of these actions are contemptible by any standards. Mother t acted with impunity bc "the church and god" had her back.
Don't rape anyone, murder anyone, persecute anyone, assault anyone, ruin anyone, groom anyone, or buy anyone as chattel, and you get to be flawed without harsh judgment. But these listed "flaws" are beyond the pale of just being "flawed." Also, if you're referring to the likes of the Founding Fathers, their "accomplishments" for purely for themselves, and their sins were wrong by ANY era's standards.
The problem is, that the accomplishments of God knows how many peole have been brushed under the carpet because of men like these. And the problem iss, that we humans still have this urge to hero worship. We need to rewrite history, dig up the forgotten und try to change ourselves if we are indeed striving for a better future. Because if we don't there will be countless geniuses who will never get the chance to accomplish somethign great because they are POC or female or handicapped.
Trump is not universally beloved he is an effing joke
Load More Replies...A lot of people where i am believe he is a great man a man of progress ans power ao i see where oc is coming from a lot of people are delusional enough to still belove him thats ehy you still get campaigns that regard him
Obviously, you are not an American citizen. We had the best economy when President Trump was in office. Gas was half the cost it is now, and the same goes for groceries. Many of us are in our 70s and are still having to work just to make ends meet, whereas three years ago, we were planning to retire.
Oh- you mean like the dementia pedo in chief who needs the Easter bunny to get him out of trouble?
The dude we have now is a COWARD but at least hes not a hot-air head. All respect, i do not like either of them as im a part of neither parties. Sorry. But this is just how it is. As voters we are given the right to choose between 2 bad people. Our government is corrupted
Putin was afraid of President Trump; he now laughs at the demented old man who lies every time he opens his mouth.
It was obvious from the start Trump didn't, and still doesn't, understand the job of President, or how government works, or history, or the consequences of his actions. Then, he actively plotted to overthrow the Constitution of the United States and the rule of law. If you think that's a "pretty damn good job," you are really not qualified to vote.
But that can be proven. He’s said awful things in videos before and after he was President. His followers explain what he meant when he said something stupid or hateful. Throughout his presidency he told the fold that he was working on whatever issue and he’d reveal it in two weeks. Never happened. He didn’t really grasp the job he held or that he worked for the entire country..
Just one point - the Dem Party at this moment DO NOT IN ANY WAY work for the people of this country. They work to empower themselves, and makes sure they stay relevant, no matter who they destroy. You think Nancy gives a rat's a**e about us, when she has her Sub Zero fridge with its 19 flavors of ice cream - just to name one of the Ruling Oligarchy. And my neighbors are worrying about how they're going to feed their kids decent meals, and be able to afford gas and electric? Not. One. Bit.
I agree, Biden is not a great president. Our choices during the election were absolute s**t. But he's still better than Trump. I hope for a day when we have more than two shitty choices for president.
No. He is much, much worse. We now have thought police and a department of truth- we have a demented pedophile in office. How the f**k can anyone expect that is better?
You conservatives *love* to throw around pedo insults, don't you? The sad part is, none of you realize how pathetic and ridiculous you look to the rest of the world. I pity you in your ignorance. Produce proof - put up or shut up.
I am pretty sure the the vast majoprity of the world has a good idea who Trump really is. History will never glorify him.
And what about those of us who get to look in with a dispassionate eye? Those of us who get access to media that hasn’t got an axe to grind and that isn’t paid for by media moguls who have skin in the game? I reckon he’s pretty close to the man I think he is.
Well, even so, we really don't know the long term effects of his presidency, so I'm unwilling to say he's one of our worst presidents. Give it 50 years or so and then let's take a look at what he had an effect on. Edit to clarify that I'm not a Trump supporter and I have to say he's the worst in MY lifetime, but since I'm 16 that doesn't mean a lot.
TheDevineMsM: HA! ... look at a lot the people on this list... it might take YEARS to find out the true extent how TRULY DISGUSTING AND AWFUL TRUMP WAS. I mean we lived with the guy for 4 years and only with the J6 hearing are we finding more garbage this man did. So in 30 years, 50 years it's gonna blow the roof off.
We definitely know that Trump lied constantly. Not about debatable things, either, but demonstrably false claims an average of seven times a day. No Trump supporter should ever be throwing stones about anyone lying lol
Elon Musk should be top of this list. Donald Trump, too. And for all that "Foundation" stuff, I've heard Bill Gates is a real..... But they're all idolized by many. To the devotees of Elon, please bear in mind we're not all Elonites, and can state our opinions without it rending the fabric of time-space to shreds :-)
But the point was to shed light on horrible people who the public seem to love. Most normal, intelligent human beings despise both of those "people" already.
Load More Replies...Kristin Ingersoll... are you serious.??? There are millions of Trumppete cult members would love to vote Trump back into the WH, in 2024. People around the world despise Trump but that doesn't mean he doesn't have morons willing to storm the Capitol and over throw Democracy for Trump. Trump is in awe of Putin and Kim and MBS (Saudi prince)... why? ....because they can kill people with impunity. He would do that to all Democrats and people of color, if he could have. ( That would have pleased his base no end.) Absolute power is what he wanted.
Trump is a given, he's pond scum. But you know who's missing? Walt Disney. He was anti-Semitic and sexist as well. LOTS of people don't want to hear that.
Elon's not the messiah his fans make him to be and not deserving of the devotion he receives, but is actually a bad person or have done horrible things?
He bought Twitter instead of, oh, I dunno.... paying off part of the national debt, or feeding a continent for 10 years, or starting research to cure cancer.... So he's a diary of Big Talk No Do IMO
Bahahaha! Why in the world would he give his money to bail a government that already horribly mismanaged everything they have right now. And research for the cure of cancer has been underway for decades now, just FYI
@soggy, for lack of a few million --- not billion ---- we could have a lot more. So, research needs money. I'm *in medical research*. Ai-yi-yi.
Twitter's owners just received 44 billions, they can do all the things you mentioned.
@Rob Eman, or he could've spent the billions on helping the planet we're *on*... And Columbus didn't do sh*t but kill, so that's kinda not helping your argument, IMO.
Elon Musk is no genius. Check out the YT channel "Adam Something" and "Common Sense Sceptic".
The problem with some of these is that people often do both good and bad things with their lives. Same with each of us, many of us have done bad things. Different shades of grey. Without a doubt, most of the peeps in this list are darker shades of grey, don’t get me wrong! But if we discredit anything someone does because of something bad they’ve done, well, there’d be no good person list. Lennon for example…surely a d*^k, but we also can’t discredit the impact he’s had on music. I feel it’s ok to recognize both the good and bad a person’s done, and to not ignore either.
It's gone now, but that John Wayne one was a crazy night. It was the Oscars and Marlon Brando was awarded something. But he sent Sacheen Littlefeather in his stead to decline and instead read a speech about the desecration and ethnocide of Native American culture and history. Wayne was certainly a piece of work in is own right, and went to pull her off stage but was restrained by a bunch of people so never actually laid a hand on her. It was quite the scandal and nothing since has really compared to the impact of that night.
The two have been compared a lot, but I'd argue the Littlefeather one still outdoes the Will Smith incident. If it had been a full beatdown, maybe. Nothing even remotely controversial (at the time) had ever happened before and this was not only a little controversial, but hit on several fronts. So it would've been like going to a Supreme Court hearing, one of the clerks of the court saying they'd be talking on behalf of one of the justices during an actual case, then the whole place turns into a rave for 10 min.
There is already too much hate in the world today. Do we really need any more?
Well, you read it on someone's comment on BoredPanda. It must be true.
Interesting to read the list. So much of it is from toxic masculinity, misogyny, racism, religious based BS and classism.
Ok so Nelson Mandela beating his wife ( and talking about it openly in his biography) is not a big deal I guess.
Not to mention his friendships with some horrible people.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/12/10/the-last-great-liberator-why-mandela-made-and-stayed-friends-with-dictators/
Load More Replies...Surprised at how far I had to scroll to see his name come up! A horrible racist who even ensured that his racist movies could not be remade
Load More Replies...Comments about racism for most of these people seems a little thoughtless. Is racism bad? Of course. However, all of the people are products of their time period and judging them based on values of the currently evolved societal values is not logical or fair
Exactly. If you're raised in a racist community, you will become racist too. It's hard to break this circle
Load More Replies...It's strange bc I was raised around racist people and from a very young age I felt it like a gut punch every time a relative said something racist. I went to school in a very white community still I knew it was wrong at 7 yrs old when I heard my dad say something so off the wall to me. I physically lost the air in my lungs and lost respect for him. I'll never forget it. I remember what I was wearing what car we were in what song was on the radio where we were going what my step mother was wearing it's seared into my brain. I remember my face got red hot and I wanted to cry and yell. That was 43 yrs ago. I think you can feel when something is wrong and violent in your gut whether you were taught the opposite. I guess it's empathy
Some of these I don't think should be on this list. Others definitely should though. I kind of think some people are getting false information for a couple of them. Just be sure to do your research people, before idolizing or hating. And remember that we are all humans that are victim to our time of living! Such as slavery and racism. It is absolutely not okay, but in their time, it was not widely understood.
Every-one have a right to their opinion,right or wrong,reserched or not...like Cnn and Fox-news...all I know is that a friend of mine,English.worked as a voluntary for Mother Theresa in Calcutta for two years in the end 60ties....never saw or talked of abuse...she did become a vegetarian,saying having seen so many open wounds put her off meat...can well believe it.. India is not known for their compassion with the plight of poor people and Mother theresa was the first to take in the lowest of the lowest to better their lives....If it went to her head later in life,who knows?? power corrupts...
I have mixed feelings about some individuals on this list. Humans are human. If you dig deep enough into any individual, you’ll find something dark. However, I have less respect for individuals that acted on those dark thoughts in a way that affected others negatively.
So much of what men in positions of control and dominance (I refuse to keep misusing the word - power) did is only now being fully questioned. So yes, all those from the past might have done good deeds in their professions, but personal lives were horrifically flawed due to emotional immaturity as we see today, the cause and root of all our woes. Humanity needs a wake up call to all the still engaged immaturity actions in order to correct the issues we are still dealing with from all the fallout of that emotional irresponsibility.
I would hazard a guess that, if you ALL looked back far enough in your own family trees, you'd be surprised at some of the evil shite that you'd find there. Are some of these people evil? Certainly, without a doubt... but the majority of these posts are of long dead people, and in every case, only one side of the story is told. There are THREE sides to every story... what "party A" said, what "party B" said, and what REALLY happened. Not ONE single, reliable source has been included in these posts to prove what the poster has stated. "Those who live in glass houses, should not throw stones". I do not condone the actions of anyone mentioned in these posts, and I despise evil in all its forms, but I can pretty much guarantee that there isn't a single person posting in this article, whose family tree does not have some evil roots somewhere down the line. NONE of us are perfect.
All people are flawed and make mistakes, because they are people, hopefully so we or others can learn from them. They behaviour was related to the time they lived in; to write a character assassination of people who have done great things that have benefited the world is just distasteful, woke, cancel culture snowflake b******t, even though they may have done horrible things, haven’t we all. Im not sure anyone of us should judge.
Nature is cruel and makes many people have troublesome urges. Yet there are still plenty of people who think whatever is natural is good. No surprise people used to be cruel through most of the history, especially as the urges of those in power were normalized.
I don't understand how Rhodes, of "The Rhodes Scholar" fame, didn't make the list.
Michelangelo! He was run out of multiple towns, he was repeatedly suspected of pedo crimes against his young models. The Catholic Church in part helped him stay ahead of the claims, and paid him to continue the abuse under the guise of “art.”
Too often “genius” comes with an enormous slice of poor character. This just substantiates it.
Lol. Weird use of the word "genius" when I look at list above. Scientifically I can only see 1 on the list (though the list partially debunks that claim...)
Load More Replies...Genius is a term that can be applied to any field — the hard sciences, soft sciences, the arts, etc. etc. It refers to developing new concepts, presenting accepted ideas in a new perspective. It challenges people to look at their lives, their worlds in new and different ways. Regardless of the negative characteristics of these individuals and the fact that in all likelihood even if I had the opportunity, I would not have invited them to dinner, they still have fulfilled that definition of “genius.”
Anybody who likes this kind of stuff should check out the podcast "Evil Genius" by Russell Kane, which essentially puts a comedy spin on this. Though hosted and panelled by comedians, it is genuinely thought provoking and there's several people featured on the show with whom my perception has been significantly altered.
Funny how no bl*ck people are labeled racist, even though some are.
After all they were human beings. The way these persons were brought up and the prevailing social norms decided their personality & behaviour. Moreover common man always try to find lacuna among stalwarts. Karamchand Gandhi doesn’t deserve Mahatma title nor Mother Teressa a Noble prize or sainthood. ( Without any prejudice, they had immense good qualities, but their dark secrets never come in limelight)
I agree with many of these, but a lot of them are "Heroes always have feet of clay" kinds of things. Show me any person who has done great work in the world and it's likely you will find other things they've done that are horrible. Maybe don't worship people no matter what good things they've done. A few of these were people who behaved exactly as was expected of them culturally at the time. That doesn't make it okay, but it does mean that we are not in a position to judge. I guarantee that 100 years from now some of our greatest figures will turn out to have had some pretty horrible skeletons in their closets.
There's some real propaganda believers in some of these incomplete bios.
Where much is given, much is taken away. You really shouldn't ever meet people who achieve greatness; they're always deeply flawed and missing other areas.
Stauffenberg. Everybody remembers the attempted assassination of Hitler. Nobody remembers the fact he was just as much of a nationalist antisemite.
really disappointing to see bored panda promoting 'hate'. there is no such thing as a perfect human being. no one's life should be dismissed, nor should someone be hated, simply because they were, as all of us are, flawed human beings.
We just need to accept that men before a certain time, did not think of women as human beings. Many still don't. In the mind of these men, women, POCs, handicapped people are all inferior creatures - something akin to trained monkey - and treated as such.
This is such black and white thinking. And not everyone is racist lol good grief guys
I miss Martin Luther here. He, basically, wrote all the jew-related parts of "Mein Kampf" 500 ears before, Mr. Hitler just had to copy them. More than once, he did so word for word, and still, Luther is seen as that liberator of europe. He never was. Other Theologians of his time were disgusted about his antijudaism and how he'd like it executed.
Those that scream the loudest for extreme measures, will be those that the future will show to have been doing horrible things. The only difference is that while just until the recent past any spoken or written word disapeared into nothingness quite quickly and tge vast majority of the population of bad people was never punished for their actions and words. This will be different in the future. Both, extreme left and right sentiments will be punished in the future. And only people using their brain will make the cut in the long run. This, or society collapses.
Ah, and all people are pretty or horrendously horrible by todays standard. Some by the standard the time they lived. But depending on how history plays out, it differs. One example: if a rightful heir to tge zarist throne would exist, and would help the West to overthrow Putin, but wanted to establish a different form of russia, we would celebrate, even if it came at a horrible price. If Putin wins and gradually establishes a new Worldorder, ppl would be brainwashed, and sing Songs about defending Putin. And hate the evil heir, and the West. If you believe that you were not brainwashed, you err. Everybody is. The crux is to use your brain, to inform yourself, and to think. But don't follow Conspiracies. Find your own path.
How about Frank Lloyd Wright who left his wife with six children, defaulted on child support, and lived a luxurious life style? FLW treated his married mistress to a life of extended travels to Japan and Europe. She also had to worry, though, about how he never paid his bills and had to skirt these issues with him, as well as some trust issues. Women were very attracted to him because of his fame as an architect and high living. He moved her up to his home, Taliesen, in Spring Green, Wisconsin, leaving her alone to manage their workers while he commuted back and forth to Oak Park and Chicago, where he worked for the Century of Progress World’s Fair prior to its opening. This ultimately led to her gruesome death and those of her two children. He had sent her a Barbadosian couple as servants to help out.Unfortunately, they were not emotionally stable, and caused a grisly death scene of fire and machete. Frank grieved for a short time, then went on to several more mistresses and wives.
I didn't know about many details, but in general, I don't tend to like historical figures, precisely because I really ignore what they really were like. As some people said, history is written by the winners, and though not everything is about wars, in general obviously most of what we know about these figures is basically hearsay. Heck, even people that is alive today or that you got to know in your lifetime, you don't really get to know them personally, but at least you have a closer idea than someone that has been dead for decades. Personally, other than Britney Spears I've never idolized anyone, and even I recognize her defects.
All these posts neglect that people do bad things, atrocious things at times, because we all fail to be perfect. Yet even with the flaws in their character, many people still contribute to society thru their creativity and innovation, which does not negate their bad behavior, if true, but also does not negate what they contributed.
If anybody would ever take the time to actually read the Bible instead of just bashing it it clearly tells us in the book of Psalms 146:3 Do not put your trust in nobles. Nor in the son of earthly man to whom no salvation belongs. Cant put it any clearer.
Not everyone believes in your Bible so your point doesn't stand. I've read the Bible I'm a recovering Catholic it furthered my justification in atheism.
Load More Replies...Honestly..... Are we even surprised at this? Humans are awful creatures. Higher intelligence does not make for a better species. We all suck.
sooooo humans being (bad) humans. Just cuz they are famous doesn't make any of them good.
So basically humans suck and nothing has changed since the beginning of time.
David Bowie ... he slept with and dated a 13-14 year old, who he cheated on with several men and women.
Steve Tyler of Aerosmith groomed a 14 yr old got her parents to sign rights over to him so he could adopt her then moved her into his home got her pregnant and forced her to have an abortion.
Load More Replies...Basically none of these are beloved. Most of them achieved some kind of widespread good, we celebrate that part, we don't really celebrate any of them as a person.
Please add Margret Mead, Ayn Rand, Margret Thatcher, Joan Crawford, and Pope John Paul 2.
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To all the people actively contributing to hate - I recommend the photo of a mirror as the number 1 post. Like so many of us are loveable saints... 🙄
I doubt that many of the commenters are widely beloved/idolised and, from the other side, sold children, enslaved people etc.
Load More Replies...Not widely beloved and we aren't historic figures either. People are forgetting that aspect when coming up with some of these names.
Enid Blyton. the British children's Author famous for The Famous Five, The Secret Seven, Mallory Towers, Noddy, Mr. Galliano's Circus and The Faraway Tree etc. She was a prolific writer' but a horrible person. She had a series of affairs, including a lesbian relationship with one of the children's nannies. In 1941, Blyton met Kenneth Fraser Darrell Waters, a London surgeon with whom she began a serious affair. Pollock discovered the liaison, and threatened to initiate divorce proceedings. Due to fears that exposure of her adultery would ruin her public image, it was ultimately agreed that Blyton would instead file for divorce against her husband Major Hugh Alexander Pollock Blyton promised that if he admitted to infidelity, she would allow him parental access to their daughters; but after the divorce, he was denied contact with them, and Blyton made sure he was subsequently unable to find work in publishing. Pollock, having married Crowe on 26 October 1943, eventually resumed his heavy drinking and was forced to petition for bankruptcy in 1950.
All this "reimagining" of historic figures and events reeks of its own racism. I'll no longer be following your page. The cism and slavery that occured in America, more than 200 years ago, does not justify anyone being racist now. The focus on American slavery highlights how little black Americans know about the history of slavery in general. Look up the tomb of Ramesses III, it was built thousands of years before American slavery existed and one of the first things you will notice on the left wall near the entrance is a scene of DISTINCTLY African slaves engraved into it. (You can explore the burial site yourself on the Matterport website, it's free and doesn't require registration) my point is so much blame is put on America's past that black American's aren't learning about other important times in history. Depriving them of the knowledge of their past, especially in their native homeland, is a negative for everyone. I hope you guys check out the tomb in Egypt, it is truly amazing.
This rant is nonsensical. Idk what you're trying to achieve. Most of these people should've been in prison. Yeah some are being outed as liar cheaters bad parents so what? We can all make up our minds about that as well. Why are you so against the truth? It's not judgment when it's a factual statement. I can forgive or understand when people make mistakes I've made mistakes I've hurt people I've also taken responsibility and I also know I can't force anyone to accept my apology and will forever be not liked by someone. However I can't forgive rapists or pedophiles I don't have it in me.