Op is an instructor whose primary goal is guiding safe hikes. They are not a personal trainer, physical therapist, motivational speaker. Rules weren’t being followed, training advice was ignored, and adjusting for ability was blatantly rejected. They were bad clients regardless of body type. A prorated refund sounds like good business sense to me.

Having acted a dive instructor I too know people are sometimes over confident in their own abilities. But we're responsible, so OP is right, if we think it's wrong we say no and no means no. We can't be forced into taking responsibility. Simple at that.

I would give them somewhat of a pass of misjudging their fitness levels. General assessments like "good" are not very helpful. I think I am reasonably fit, as in I bike to work and walk around a lot. Hiking in the mountains is a totally different thing. But total nope on the lack of listening to requirements on attire and footwear. I often do active vacationing in the summer (mostly Greece) and went to hike a famous gorge there. Slippery rocks, long downhill trecking, no way to get out except by donkey if you are hurt. Some Americans would show up wearing flip flops. I mean seriously? LISTEN to your freaking guides.

Op was definitely protecting them from their own stupidity. If a guide tell you to train, they know what they’re doing. If you think you’re so good that you don’t need to listen to them, that’s your problem

absolutely NTA. I hike with a local group which is very well organised, all the events have a plethora of information, from meeting point, difficulty, transport options, route description, equipoment list, you name it. The number of people that come ill prepared is astonishing, as well as people asking questions about things that are clearly stated in the description. I do admire the patience of the organiser I certainly don't have it.

I've experienced fat people that have more stamina than I had (I used to be very thin). Later found out I had a heart issue I never knew about. The fact that you instructed them to walk a mile to get ready for their next outing and they all laughed, that's when you should have turned to the leader and said let's just do a refund. This isn't going to work.

Op is running a hiking business and not an adult daycare. They laid out everything up front and got mocked and outright ignored. These ladies can start with their walks in the park without a trainer, and MAYBE try coming back when they've got a healthier mindset about the whole thing, as well as an understanding that "hiking sandals" aren't a real thing (OP said nothing about sandals, I'm just picturing some wearing those, or even just flipflops.)

In general, people do overestimate their physical abilities. Every year there are stories of people having to be rescued because they went up the mountain in their flipflops or went swimming in waters they don't know because 'it's fine, I can swim' and then have to be rescued. It's insanity to go hiking if you're so overweight. It does far more harm than good.

You don't need to do more than one chance with an activity that can easily turn into a nightmare.

I was all for YTA until I realized those women lied. I am very overweight and I have to set realistic goals. I might want to do things but my body is not able right now. They just didn't set realistic goals for themselves and wanted to blame someone else

I'm not sure about this one, TBH. As a ski instructor I've had clients who have grossly over-rated their ability and/or fitness, such that I have to change plans drastically after the first run. They're still paying me. I can still help them. Sure, it's not so much fun for me, having to pick them up all the time, but I cannot imagine a scenario where I would walk away from them.

Last year I went on what was supposed to be a two hour hike with a friend and her husband. I had mentioned, that there were a lot of blueberry bushes at the top of the mountain, that should be ripe about then. These fools showed up in matching outfits, and converse shoes, with a yogi bear style picnic basket. I had to share my water with them along the way, because they had none. When we got to the top, they spread out their picnic blanket in a spot with a good view, and unpacked their lunch, of CAKE. Just cake. On ceramic plates, with cloth napkins, and proceeded to take pictures of each other. Then, they complained because the blueberries weren't as big as the ones in the store, and they couldn't see them good in pictures. All in all, it took about five hours, up and down, listening to complaining about the bugs. They want me to take them again, but I keep being "busy". They're thin. I'm the chunky one. Never again. I have taken out Cub scouts that were easier to manage than these two. It's not about size, it's about attitude.

People really need to learn how to be honest with themselves about their physical capabilities. I climbed Mt Kinabalu on Borneo 10 years ago, definitely not a beginner level hike. A couple of hours in, I saw a tiny malaysian man carry a tourist, a woman over twice his size, on his back down the mountain. There's no way he made it all the way down without damage to his joints.

I'm sure that what they wrote about the OP on social media didn't mention that they tried, but that no one in this group seemed to listen to the OP's instructions or accept more realistic goals.

NTA. In fact you were much nicer than I would've been by refunding the money. As a former infantryman, I would've taken a different tact all together. The moment someone accused me of "fatphobia" or any other idiotic buzzfeed term my response would've been "if you want to hike, let's hike." They would've been begging for refunds before we hit the halfway mark.

Ugh, it was only a matter of time till someone got an injury and claim it was the OP’s “negligence” and then there goes her business. I don’t think there’s a more entitled group the last couple years than the extreme heavy set and audacious, especially in groups. Why couldn’t they plan their own walks in nature if that’s all they wanted? Some people like to blame others instead of acknowledging their own limitations. Old geezer men do that too.

OP was right to cancel and refund, BUT what’s with the FOUR MILE ROUND TRIP as a “starter hike.” For a group of overweight, out of shape women? Even I — not overweight, but not a hiker or exerciser - would find that overwhelming. OP should have quickly adjusted the first hike to be 1 mile (at most), told the group if they wanted to continue, they had to wear the proper attire next time — and if possible find out if any participants lied on the form and indeed had a serious health issue. Hopefully, that form had legal wording that protected the OP from any liability even if a participant was dishonest.

So, basically, the BP "writer" did a random Google search (or had AI do it for her) for a Reddit story about Pride. But ended up with a random hiking story from 2019 that just happened to mention the word "Pride" in it (the OP was simply mentioning a misunderstanding). And, the fact that all the screenshots says "4 years ago", when in fact the post is from 5 years ago, means this story wasn't even pulled directly from Reddit, but from some other website that had shared it last year. Journalism is dead.

As a former Mountain Leader I'd have cancelled hike number two the second they refused to wear appropriate footwear stating safety issues.

This guy was absolutely NTA. The person in the comments who claimed fat people are just lacking willpower, however, was an AH.

NTA!!! Omg OP bent over backwards to accommodate and honor this contract. I give OP credit for giving the group a second chance when the first hike was clearly a shiitt show. Look I spent years as a 300+ pound person and now at 150lbs I see how much I am more able to move. These women in this group were in denial and frankly quite indignant in my opinion! They seemed like they wanted OP to wave some magic wand and make them successful in something that was obviously above their level. They didn’t arrive prepared- they didn’t wear appropriate clothes and shoes and they didn’t do their one hour daily brisk walks to prepare. It’s obviously ON THEM to be ready willing and able and they apparently were NOT. OP had no choice and I’m sure OP will be revisiting the language of their contract for future clients to include a clear warning about preparedness, accountability and safety measures. OP has the right to refuse service to those not honest or not prepared or simply not willing.

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is these people paid you why not adjust the hike to their abilities instead of canceling? What difference would it have made? I understand the need for them to be prepared and they didn't need to let them know if they're not prepared with the right shoes and outerwear that they wouldn't be allowed to take the hike but canceling it seems weird

OP is 100% in the right. I love hiking. Love it. Would I take up an invitation to go? Nope. An old sports injury has me pretty seriously limited, and it'd be unsafe for all parties to do anything too rigorous. This has nothing to do with weight... It's all about knowing limitations and level of dedication.

I bagged me a 14'er once....by driving to the top of Pikes Peak. lol

Just the fact that someone thinks it's necesary to hire a guide for 6 km "hike" with elevation of 250 m is a huge indicator that they never been properly outside... Unless you are very ill, this isn't hike, that's a walk. You shouldn't need more than 2 hours to do this, even untrained...

They lied with every single basic things. They are not trustworthy, this is a HUGE red flag!! (Is it fatphobic to say that? haha)

TIL some people actually pay other people to take them for a walk.

I really don't get it these women were paying you why not go at their pace?? What difference would it make to you? I mean you could let them know without the right equipment and and supplies that they wouldn't be allowed to do the hike but I'm not sure why you would cancel it it seems odd

Fat .. I don't wanna call them that .. I'll call them ... Over weight ... However... "Overweight" people .. have no clue. They talk like they can take over the world with there work ethic .. well .. I work at a bigger landscape company...I usually do chem applications... But, I had to help out with landscape... No worries .. huffing block, 2in rock, mulch.. ext. We got this 18 year old. .gen...whatever... He's lazy as f**k... Always dropping what he's doing to grab his text .. doeast do s**t .. and, I honestly have to redo all his s**t... Today this guy said.. ' wow .. I can't believe how much I got done today .. so .. I said... B***h.. you sucked up or raked up our leftovers .. you were on you phone non stop.. you did t do s**t .. not fat shaming... He's young ...that could be it... But... He was worthless .. he cost us a third day. So... Bi... Nta. Fat people wanna get respect if the ones that work everyday .. then .. there gonna have to do the work....lies on resumes

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

YTA for saying "cancelling on plus sized group" instead of "group who wouldn't follow instructions"