very well put and well said Fiona, i am a kiwi in the australian army and have been doing the rounds of the middle east, lots of combat atrocities, these guys remind me of isis/isil, same depraved mentally unbalanced violence and to all those gragging about tough american gangs, you have no idea just how violent and evil these people are.

Amen Fiona, only the weak roll in gangs. Nothing is worse than people given them recognition, no1 gets in the gang for being a nice guy! I read the book a mobster wrote claiming to be deformed blah blah blah the s**t he had done is haunting

So sad you don't see it. Don't this make you want to ask why these people are monsters? We have a similar problem with gangs, crystal meth and probably the highest rape rate in the world. It's not cool. What is cool though is to show that they are human, just like you. People get enraged or fear them for being "monsters". But why are they monsters? Were they forced by others? Did they struggle for work or was judged too harshly by others or people like yourself? The gang members locally don't really want to do what they do. They are forced to as it's the only way to survive and part of their upbringing into the lifestyle which force them in their ways. Most of the gang members don't want it for their children and want a better life for them and would love for them to escape this reality. But they can't. The media keeps on focusing on their victims and crimes forcing them deeper into this hell hole of a reality. So please, stop thinking you have moral high ground.