It's pure religious fanaticism - no logic!

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

The logic is that the baby has a right to live.

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

I'm an atheist and i still think that abortion without good reason should be illegal once there is a brain and nerves, it's alive/feels pain. Iirc, thats in the beginning of the second trimester? The heart tissue can beat even if it's just cloned, so that's not what makes a person.

Ah yes. It’s so much better when the child is born unwanted and then abused, neglected, and/or murdered by its mother/someone else. A teen mom or an overwhelmed victim of rape dumping the baby into a Dumpster to slowly die over the course of hours is absolutely better than abortion “once there is a brain/nerves/heart”.

@Alicia, it has nothing to do with religion. And all reasons are good. Plus, the fetus does not have a conscience until birth.

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

A conscience has nothing to do with this issue. The same groups that decry animal cruelty have no problem with killing a fetus in horrifically painful manners. https://erlc.com/resource-library/articles/study-shows-preborn-babies-feel-pain-as-early-as-12-weeks-gestation/

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

sure...just like " experts" say lobsters feel no pain when dropped in boiling water.....

The formula shortage has nothing to do with too many babies. Good grief!

Maybe not, but don't you think it's going to be a problem for future babies whose mothers can't produce milk?

Tia. For the love of tacos, stop. Abortion should be legal. End of story. Leaving a young mother to either single-handedly raise a kid or leave said kid in a dangerous system is horrible. And for what? Please explain you point of view, as I simply don't get it.

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

I think it's VERY ironic when pro-abortionists don't see the child in their wombs as actual babies/humans, and many use that belief to undergo the procedure. But then when they want a child later, and they miscarry (losing the infant)... then they see the little one as a human baby, and are saddened by the loss. I'm sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

For many women abortion isn't an easy choice - but for some reason it's what they have to do. And they have to find a way to psychologically cope with it afterwards. And we can choose to judge whomever we want for whatever they do. But our religious beliefs should not determine women's rights to have abortion.

The difference is, one is a choice. The other is a heartbreaking phenomenon. A woman wants an abortion, but very few want a miscarriage.

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

Yes, shortages of formula justify murder.

thx Becca.

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

I see it as a case by case thing. I don't agree with abortion all the time but there are cases where it is justifiable (fer example, when someone is r@ped or the mother would die in childbirth or even in some extreme poverty cases even though I would rather the baby be put up for adoption it's better than being murdered when they're a year old) and yes I have done community service for children in the Philippines and I have donated. I'm not at the legal age to foster children but I plan on that too unless life gets so crazy that I couldn't take care of them.

If you don't agree with abortion then don't do it. I swear, the ego on you people who think you can tell someone else what to do with their own body. It's not for you to decide, and you're not as important as you think you are. Maybe you should be forced to foster those children. Oh, your life got too crazy to take care of children? Too damn bad!

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

Why are you getting downvoted? It’s sad how people now are just gonna choose murder instead of life. I know I’m gonna get downvoted as well, but débora I agree with you

You are calling it a child while I will say it is a unformed blob/embryo. How can one discriminate against one who is not even conscious? Without brain development? The conflict begins with how we define what is inside the female.

ex-freaking-actly

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

They get a heart beat at 6 weeks in utero and very quickly form into a little baby. It is very much alive and formed when women get an abortion. A lot of women don’t even know they are pregnant until after 6 weeks and it already has a heartbeat. You either allow it to live and grow or you stop it from living which is killing it.

"Stop it from living" If it was never alive, then it can't die or be "killed." Think about what you type, goofy.

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

Unborn babies can discern their momma's voice

I looked this up ...the baby recognizes the mother's voice at the end of pregnancy. https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=97635&page=1 Even I am willing to call it a baby this late in pregnancy. Very few abortions are done this late in pregnancy (1.4% and most with the mother's life at risk) Not sure if your argument is helping your point as I am saying the blob of differentiated cells that cannot hear its mother's voice is fine to terminate.

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

It is now an option to decide what is a human and what is not? Just like when slaves where called sub humans giving slave owners fuel to abuse their forced servants.

No. What we are saying is that a pregnant woman is not simply a vessel who should be forced to carry an embryo to term regardless of how she became pregnant or how appalling the life of that child may be. If you are outraged by slavery, where a person has no rights over their existence, you should support a woman’s right to choose. Being forced to give birth is another form of slavery where body autonomy isn’t a right.

Thank you, JB. Eloquently said.

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

Unless they were raped, they know what gets them pregnant and made a choice just like I did. It’s called taking responsibility for your actions. If you don’t want to have a baby there are steps to take to prevent getting pregnant like birth control pills, condoms, etc. And if you accidentally still get pregnant you still made the choice to have sex and should therefore respect life and follow through. That is nothing like slavery and is actually insulting. No one makes a choice to be a slave. And even if they did that still has zero to do with having a baby. People just don’t want to have any consequences for their actions.

Wow. Sometimes birth control fails, did you know that? And you should look up actual verified statistics on what happens to the babies that occur from non-rape unwanted pregnancies (e.g., teenage mothers). It’s DEFINITELY better to have the babies be abused, neglected, or to slowly die from exposure and dehydration over the course of hours after they’re thrown in a Dumpster by their mothers, is that what you’re saying? Because that’s what you’re saying by telling those moms to “take responsibility” when they’re in no way able to handle it at that point in their lives through NO fault of their own. Yes, that’s definitely better than abortion before it’s born.

Why are you getting down voted, every word was true

how

As one doctor pointed out, you are giving an embryo more rights than any other human. No other human alive is entitled to use someone else's body for their life. You cannot force someone to donate kidneys (even if it would save another person's life). Even dead bodies do not have to donate organs. Yet a woman may have to sacrifice her health or even life for a child the world does not want and cannot take care of. The heartbeat law that just passed actually prevents MEDICALLY NECESSARY abortions where the mother can die.

They were self-aware and were conscious, not blobs of undifferentiated cells.

Do you realize my comment was in reponse to why slavery is not like abortion? I reread mine and it sounds anti-abortion with a quick read through. I hate the way BP doesn't quite indent to show which reposnse to what comment.

*laughter* my six-month-old nephew isn't even self aware, let alone a clump of cells!

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

Whatever you need to do to justify murder.

oh well....

Most abortions are two pills and done. Not invasive. Late term abortions are not what you think. These are brutal decisions made by women who thought about names, have the nursery set up. Their friends and family have planned a baby shower. Maybe someone skilled has started to crochet outfits or make a baby quilt. Then they go in for some routine scans test. Some result are abnormal. More test are done. The doctor breaks the news that the fetus is incompatible with life. Options are to either abort now and save your life. Or carry the baby, let it die in your uterus and potentially die when you go into labor to expell the dead tissue, that you hoped would have become a baby you prepared for. Then after the procedure you go home and have to see all the baby things that have been prepared, because your spouse was with you, jumping through hoops and traveling across state lines to a doctor qualified to perform the procedure. These are the women you are demonizing.

Link has no idea what she/he is saying. No research, no knowledge of these prodecures, mortality rates, risk factors.... just ooze out any s**t you want and suddenly it's fact.

There are amphibians and fish capable of straight-up switching their sex when necessary. Carrying of offspring is not universally a 'female' thing (seahorses). Moving over to Reptilia, some lizards (whiptail lizards, mourning geckos), are almost exclusively a female species that reproduces via parthenogenesis. Mourning geckos partake in 'mock' sex with each other (they're lesbians, Jan) before going through parthenogenesis. Leopard geckos are intersex, and it's highly likely that this is common within other lizard species. I suspect the crested gecko is also intersex generally, and few instances of true hermaphroditism have been shown within them and other lizard/geckos. cont.

When the real world, and science, showcase all of these, you have to acknowledge that we are not unique, we are not special: We do not have a binary sex. Gender is a spectrum. Our chromosomes are not purely XX/XY, and even then there are different ways our bodies react to those chromosomes, where certain features will be present REGARDLESS of those chromosomes. You can be XX, your body won't respond to those hormones, and show as male. Chromosomes mean very little. Intersex features are a thing we, along with the rest of the animal kingdom, showcase. Secondary sexual characteristics are super easy to focus on, since they're visual, but consider that women with beards exist. Men without beards. That's a small thing that can vary depending on so many factors, but it is a spectrum. cont.

So yes, there are MEN who have uteruses and are capable of reproducing. Gender doesn't mean sh*t, and there is no scientific backing to pretend there's a binary in our sexes. The reality is far more complex, everything is on a spectrum, and you can't go "but biology and science" without understanding it to use it to explain gender. As you folks like to say "do your research." Now I am done.

Ovata: Thank you for writing all that out in such an organized logical way! Well-done! (Not that you need the approval of a random internet person, but, wow!)

thanks for the info. So neat and logical.

J - well-said!

J oh my god thank you- I am also a boy with a uterus- however, unlike you, I am pre-transition. Gunns Donovan- The "incontrovertible science" you speak of has proven trans people (like me) exist.

You do you. Props xxx

Yes, right? That’s sort of what immediately occurred to me.

J - I can tell just from that that you are an amazing parent! The world needs more people like you! Thank you for your bravery in helping us learn and become better people :)

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

You have little to no understanding of the human anatomy

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

Go milk a bull. Then you'll see that gender matters

How do YOU know that that bull DOESN’T think of itself as female? Just because it doesn’t have an udder doesn’t mean that you get to decide what it thinks. Just because it’s cattle and not of human intelligence doesn’t mean they DON’T have identities. We just don’t know enough yet to communicate with them and find out.

this is to @eff the haters, sorry Lakota Wolf but I cannot reply to them.@eff the haters: Did said bull replace your brains with its poop? stop being so dumb! also @Lakota Wolf i agree with u 100%

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

Took a while to get her going but DAMN.

Incontrovertible science? Have you heard of intersex individuals? What about people who have XY chromosomes, but appear female at birth, so are raised as a female? Or genetically XX individuals born with a penis? Or people with XXY or XYY chromosomes?

Huh? Hardly - a trans man could have a uterus.

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

Please elaborate that anatomy

Do you think this is the only thing that defines a persons sex? The physical components only? Genitalia, chromosomes and ability to have a child? We are such a highly evolved species and to say our sense of gender should be like other mammals, doesn't take into account the incredible unique evolution of our complex brain interactions influencing who we are and will be, regardless of gender at birth.

Someone didnt do their research on transgender men

seahorses: I care to disagree....

Uterine transplants have happened but none successfully on trans women

2. No, the man is not going to be the one to sacrifice his body and future for the potentialchild. He does not get a say. If he wants a child that badly, he can pay for one with a surrogate or adopt one, not quick claim it after an "accident" that he did not initially intent to have. 3. Why do you automatically assume they would be beautiful and do you think they will be beautiful adults as well? Unwanted children are going to always turn into beautiful adults? I think not, there is going to be much emotional baggage here. 4. I do not think you see statistics. It doesn;t happen this way. I think you are being very naive.

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

You must not know how the human body and behavior works 🤦‍♂️

Not a baby, so no killing.

Abortion isn't murder in the same way that not donating organs isn't murder.

I'm on your side, but I don't understand your comment's parallels. I might be missing the obvious, but could you please explain as I have not heard this argument?

People die every day while waiting for an organ transplant, and plenty of people die with healthy organs they could donate but don't. Nobody can remove organs from a corpse without permission, even though doing so could save lives. And the people on waiting lists are for sure alive! Not just clumps of cells with electrical signals. So if a fully realized person can't use your body without your consent-- it's totally reasonable and not murder-- then refusing to keep your own organs that's you're still using to yourself isn't murder.

PLUS pregnancy changes a body forever and has a distressingly high mortality rate. It's not just like having a roommate for a short period of time. The babies argument is a red herring, meant to confuse and divide. The actual argument is over which heartbeat matters more. Bodily autonomy is essential.

Ahhh, I understand you now. Thank you for taking the time to write this out and explain! Have a lovely day/night!

This comment is hidden. Click here to view.

To harvest organs for transplant purposes, the body of the "donator" must still be alive, so the organs don't immediately start to decompose right after an individual's death.