A flying spaghetti monster does sound awesome ngl, but, again, the research is not talking about people trying to convert others, but people who believe in God. I believe in God and have never tried to prove it or convert anyone because of that, but if someone asked me I would say that based on my own experience, i'm pretty sure He exists. The truth is that no matter what, we're all gonna find out at the end (or not), so people should believe in whatever they want. If a flying spaghetti monster is comforting to you and it has a positive impact on your life, who am I to judge?

Get back to us when you're forced to celebrate Prince spaghetti day every week because too many idiots believe in a flying spaghetti monster.

What are you forced to celebrate? Because i think you mean something like Christmas which most people enjoy and most people more celebrate santa than actual jesus birthday. No one forces you to celebrate anything in developed countries unless I'm missing something. I welcome all holidays. Free time off Hooray!

We're not forcing you. Y'all are forcing us to celebrate something directly opposite our beliefs for an entire month straight

What are you talking about? How, exactly, are you forced to celebrate what goes against your beliefs? And please explain how Pride month’s existence in any way compares to what happens at the Christian holiday of Christmas (that starts well before the beginning of December)? And there’s Easter on top of that. Are there constant LGBTQ+ movies being shown 24 hours a day? Are businesses shutting down, at any point, specifically for everyone to celebrate Pride? Are their Pride songs on a constant loop in stores? Are you expected to join in on an office Pride party and give a gift to a coworker whose name you pulled out of a hat? Are there HOAs making residents put up decorations? Please explain how you are forced to participate in Pride, and non-Christians don’t have anything forced onto them?

What!? You are trying to say that as long as someone who has delusions feels good about them they are perfectly fine. No. We are able to sit in judgment because people believe things that inform their actions and we all must share this reality. I'm curious, what experience do you base you being pretty sure He exists? What in the world are you talking about? The truth of the matter is that if you don't know, saying that you are pretty sure and just running with it is utterly dishonest and, sorry, that kind of thinking forces one to question one's integrity.

Praise the FSM, He boiled for my sins!

This will probably get out of place, but Jonathan your comment made me spill my tea

How is everyone always drinking tea in these comment sections

Hahahahahahahah I developed a huge taste for tea since I moved to Europe. Back in brazil I would be drinking ice with ice

Tea is the single most popular beverage in the world.

I’ll get you another!

Ohhh an angel came from the sky!!!!

@Jonathan: Preach. I shall take His marinara blood and drink from it, in memory of Him.

Hold on, does the Flying Spaghetti Monster have meatballs?

You've never seen its picture? Let me fix that for you. fsm-649491...cbf7cb.jpg

Where did you get that?

Google

yes. yes HE doth.

Feathered Dinosaur, can you please sign me up? I will donate all of my earthly possessions to spread the word!

If you don't believe in a Flying Spaghetti monster, why do you care if those who do think you're going to a forever-prison. Why would that bother you. Shouldn't be a blip on your radar. It amazes me how much some people care what I believe.

Because beliefs inform actions. How many non religious suicide bombers have there been? If you don't care about what people believe, do you even care at all?

Power and control

No. There are many pastafarians around.

No if your happy believing that go ahead as long as you don't hurt anyone it's all good. I just do think it's ok to trash another persons beliefs like that I mean does a person telling you your going to hell when you don't believe in hell really hurt you just realize people who believe this can see these and it can hurt so just don't be so harsh about it.

That works both ways, Christian. It absolutely hurts my feelings when someone tells me I'm going to suffer eternally because I don't believe as they do.

@Miles: Isn’t is hilarious to be threatened with eternal damnation, which doesn’t exist? Like, oooo I’m so scared!

Thats exactly how I feel as well :)

Yes it does. It means they have such an abusive mindset that we should all worry about their behavior. How dehumanizing it is to simply dismiss people as irrelevant simply because you think you have god on your side.

faith involves trusting some things you can't prove, or some people who can. I absolutely believe love exists even though I will never be able to scientifically prove it myself; I completely trust that someone is in pain even when no one can't measure it. These people are talking about their own personal beliefs, and when it comes to God, there's no way my experience will be enough to make you believe it, you have to have your own. So what I take from this poll is that those guys who claim they know God exists can end up eventually changing their minds, but whatever happened in their lives was enough to prove it to them (and only them) that God is real. This is not a "let me convert you" post, just people expressing their feelings and for that they shouldn't feel embarassed

Believing in a deity is not the same as being in pain! What a horrid comparison. And you do realise there are more gods than just the one you believe in. So which god is the right one?

??¿¿? I never said it was? I was clearly giving an example of a moment I trust something without being able to prove it or measure it... and yes, I do realize there are many religions in the world and like I already said, everyone can believe whatever they want. I think the right god is the one you feel is the right god, how can I answer that? I believe in God, but that's me

And they can't be all right, but they can be all wrong!

Pain can be measured using a functional MRI. Love is a subjective state of mind that can only be measured by the person experiencing it. Faith is also a subjective state of mind; it is belief in the absence of factual evidence, something that I and millions of others simply cannot do. I have no issue with those who can...up until they decide their beliefs must be forced down my throat against my will...or until I see them behaving hypocritically and against their claimed faith.

I have a problem with people that can do that. It means that reality is not solid for them. They don't have to deal with contradictory statements and outright lies. Because, through faith, all things are possible. It's supremely insulting to those of us with the integrity to face reality as it may come. It's disgusting and we shouldn't take it as normal. Delusions need to be called out.

unfortunately you can measure mental states etc. https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2023/4/7/could-ai-read-minds-somedayjapanese-breakthrough-sparks-debate

I was saying I can't

That's the rub. It comes down to this. Which do you put stock in, reality or fantasy? If someone tells me they are in pain, I don't take that by faith, the opposite. I look at the evidence. One piece being that they said they were in pain. I would then proceed to ask questions and analyze the situation. Faith, on the other hand, would be to look at the person in pain and believe he is fine, dispite all evidence to the contrary. Faith is the excuse you use when the evidence does not support the conclusion you prefer.

plenty of evidence has been provided, it's just easier/better explained scientifically.

What the actual f**k did you just say? Evidence? That has been proven incorrect? Think man.

isn't it the same as being atheist? maybe they see their lives as a proof that God exists, maybe atheists see their lives as a proof the He doesn't, to each their own. The research is not about convincing anyone, just about personal beliefs

All you can say about atheists as a group is that they don't hold any god beliefs. Any claim beyond that, such as claiming that they think they have proof that gods don't exist, cannot be generalized. I personally have yet to meet one who says they have such proof, or who holds faith up as a virtue.

No one is claiming to have proofs, Walter. I think you're taking this research deeper than it is. An agnostic person is someone who admits not having any idea if God is real or not. Anything different than that believes God does/doesn't exist, with no factual proof. However you can't expect proof to something that actually involves believing it without being able to prove it. I do agree atheists can't be generalized, as no one should :)

I was responding to this statement of yours: "maybe they see their lives as a *proof* that God exists, maybe atheists see their lives as a *proof* the He doesn't". Anyway, most of the atheists I've met are agnostic, whereas most of the theists I've talked to are so gnostic it's ridiculous. And when I ask them why their gnosticism is so strong, it invariably comes down to faith. I.e., they're just pretending, really really hard, to know.

I like you Walter! Nice hearing sense be spoken. Props brother.

I'm sorry, english is not my first language so I might lack the exact words, but what I meant is that for them, whatever experience they've had is enough to make them certain that God exists. You don't have to have faith to be an atheist or agnostic, so yeah, chances are that you'll probably find more Gnostics relying on faith, however, the poll is exactly about that, "wavering faith" is the title, it's not about evidence or conversion.

An agnostic should be honest and follow the evidence, wherever it leads. Lack of any evidence whatsoever for any god claim in human history should lead one to where that lack of evidence leads.

It is absolutely NOT the same. Atheism is based on the lack of scientific evidence that god exists, not faith that God doesn't exist. faith doesn't enter into it.

This is not what atheists „believe“. I’m an atheist… I don’t have any proof that a god doesn’t exist. By the way, I think that is also logically impossible. You can’t prove nonexistence. Atheists simply don’t believe in gods….the same as you probably don’t believe in Zeus or Odin

An atheist dosn't say god dosn't exist they say there is no proof rather way

From the American Psychological Association: "Technically, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god, while an agnostic is someone who doesn't believe it's possible to know for sure that a god exists. It's possible to be both—an agnostic atheist doesn't believe but also doesn't think we can ever know whether a god exists."

Which would make me an apathetic agnostic atheist. I don't believe, don't think we can ever know, and don't care. Frankly, if someone offered me proof, I'd likely try to unalive the neglectful, cruel jerk who claims omnipotence but does nothing to help his creations. How did I arrive at this viewpoint? By reading the Bible. Yikes. Genesis alone will do it if you're a critical thinker. Even humans, horrible as we are, generally protect people who legitimately don't know right from wrong.

So, do you then see why it is so important to divest people from these certainties? If someone "knows" god has his back, it gives him the right, a literal mission from God to do whatever heinously barbaric things he may conceive.

You’re agnostic

that would be one type of atheism, but there is more than one. just like everything else, including believers. i don't think is embarassing either way

I personally think it’s kind of embarrassing, too. I find it embarrassing when educated people in our modern sociein 2023 still believe in magic. If it’s gods, demons, astrology, wizardry…that’s all the same to me.

I'm sorry, but it's kinda ironic that you have such a strong opinion and certainty that God doesn't exist at the same time you're judging other people for having the same amount of confidence. What does education has to mean with having faith?

Evidentiary standard? Ever heard of a thing? Ever been honest with yourself?

I think that if you think fantasy has any bearing on reality you should be embarrassed.

Or logic dictates it

It's not the same as being atheist. Atheism is non-belief. I don't believe in astrology either, but my disbelief doesn't run my life or insist I adopt a moral code developed by Bronze Age primitive nomadic tribesmen, most of which isn't applicable to modern life.

What is it about the complete lack of evidence that confuses you? Why is it that the complete lack of evidence doesn't make you sure that you exist because the flying spaghetti monster sprinkled its magic cheese and wished you into existence?

Technically, I have no factual evidence that I exist, only anecdotal.

Slap yourself. Do you exist?

Honestly, lol. :)

No, truth is not bendable. If we don't know yet, then we don't know. Making s**t up to fill gaps is idiocy and lying. How about we just have an expectation of having the truth matter more than fantasy?

@take me No, there’s no reason to believe a god exists. This isn’t due to the state of the world or the bad things that people do to each other, which some may cite for the reasons they stopped believing. There is absolutely no reason why this blind hope should exist other than fear and ignorance. And it hurts people. People who actually exist.

Nikole, maybe because it's not about reason, it's about faith :)

Faith just means you’re confident about your lack of knowledge and absence of evidence… Cool?

Faith is an excuse.

Thank you Nikole!

But atheists don't have any faith. That is the difference.

I am glad you understand the definition of faith....

Faith never made sense. People, in general, have always been comforted by thinking they have answers. At one time the lack of actual understanding made even the most ridiculous answers broadly acceptable. As science has progressed and provided more and more answers backed by observation and repeatable prediction the ignorance and gullibility necessary to believe the old answers has increased to the point that slightly less than half the people in the US still qualify.

Which is not the poll's subject, is it?

And the conversation evolved didn't it.

Cthulhu Kitty, I hope this doesn't get out of the way haha it's my own personal opinion, but I honestly think you don't need to believe in God for Him to believe in you. We're all clueless here and trying our best to survive and make something meaningful out of our lives, so if I were Him I wouldn't mind some people not believing me, at the end of the day it's all about how you're doing as a human being and, also personal opinion, if you are a nice person even when you don't believe in something bigger, than props to you, you're ahead of many :)

Then why does it say if we don't believe we get tortured for eternity? Too bad you're not the christian god, then no one would have to have these hateful things shoved at them constantly.

No faith required there. We all come from the mother. Earth. We all return to her. What would you like to show her after you return home from class. Live your life as if you are teaching the earth how to be what you consider good. You will be returned to her, take what you will.

Blue Chambers, I'm not gonna lie, for a few seconds I considered remaining silent, but I much rather these types of discussion where everybody is free to show their points of view than the downvoting system that adds nothing to anyone. Maybe we'll leave and none of us will have changed our minds, and that's fine, but at least we all expressed our feelings somehow. I do agree, though, that some topics are not very well received here and it makes me sad when divergent opinions are downvoted, but I'm honestly surprised with the amount of people here that actually agrees that is not embarassing (which I would have no idea of had I not talked about it). Sometimes we have to leave our comfort zones to help others leave too. If every discussion on BP was respectful like this one I think this site would be way more pleasant

What really grinds my gears (thanks Family Guy, where I learned that expression) is the special position religions claim in our society and people easily give it. It‘s always: „you should respect religions!“ or „don’t make fun of religions!“ Why? Why is that different than someone believing the Dallas Cowboys were the greatest football team ever? People will make of him too! Why should I respect someone who believes in demons, in magic, or in a talking snake? And to be clear: there’s a difference between treating people with respect and not respecting their believe system!

I'm not against joking about religions (all of them to be fair), but your question was "why should I respect someone who believes..." and that's another thing. I think we should respect everyone. You're not superior or smarter for not believing it, just like I'm not superior or smarter for believing it.

Agreed, but the confidently incorrect comments are annoying and definitely get downvoted ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Atheists, by definition, do not believe in any god. Someone who says there is no evidence for or against (meaning it could be possible, but they just don't care either way) is agnostic.

I'm embarrassed for all the people who are not. How hard is it to be honest?

Don't forget all the sinful fornication. We do a metric c**p ton of it.