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Down Syndrome Has Almost Been Eliminated In Iceland, And People’s Reactions Are Heartbreaking
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Down Syndrome Has Almost Been Eliminated In Iceland, And People’s Reactions Are Heartbreaking

Iceland Has Almost Completely Eliminated Down Syndrome, And Here’s How People ReactedIceland Almost Completely Eliminates Down Syndrome, Sparks Heated Discussions About AbortionDown Syndrome Has Almost Been Eliminated In Iceland, And It Has Started Heated Debates About AbortionIceland Almost Completely Eliminates Down Syndrome, And People's Reactions Are HeartbreakingDown Syndrome Has Almost Been Eliminated In Iceland, And People's Reactions Are HeartbreakingIceland Has Nearly Eliminated Down Syndrome, And It Has Sparked A Huge DebateIceland Has Reached Nearly 100% Termination Rate Of Diagnosed Down Syndrome Pregnancies, And It Has Sparked A Huge DebateDown Syndrome Is Practically Non-Existent In Iceland Since Introducing Screening Tests, And People Have Mixed OpinionsIceland Has Almost Completely Eliminated Down Syndrome, And People Everywhere Can't Agree If It's Good Or BadDown Syndrome Has Almost Been Eliminated In Iceland, And People's Reactions Are Heartbreaking
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In countries like the US and UK, people with Down syndrome are gaining more visibility year by year. In Iceland, however, they’ve almost completely disappeared. A recent CBS News probe has revealed why only 2 Icelandic children are born with Down syndrome each year on average, and their findings have sparked a fierce ethics debate online.

Landspítali, or the National University Hospital of Iceland, has been offering prenatal screening tests to pregnant women since the early 2000s, an essential step in detecting development problems in a fetus – including Down syndrome. Unlike the estimated 67% of women in the US who choose to terminate their pregnancies upon diagnosis of the disorder, nearly 100% of Icelandic women do so, making Down syndrome extremely rare in the island nation. “My understanding is that we have basically eradicated, almost, Down syndrome from our society,” geneticist Kari Stefansson told CBS.

Contrary to Internet accusations of forced abortions and ‘social cleansing,’ all of these abortions performed in Iceland were completely of the mother’s own volition. “We try to do as neutral counseling as possible, but some people would say that just offering the test is pointing you towards a certain direction,” said head of Landspítali’s Prenatal Diagnosis Unit Hulda Hjartardottir.

Despite the often poor prognosis for children with Down syndrome, and the costs associated with their care that are borne by their families, some are still arguing that their existence should be valued by society, and that terminating all Down’s pregnancies is unethical.

Scroll down to learn more, and tell us your thoughts at the end.

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Down syndrome is disappearing in Iceland, with only 2 affected children being born each year on average

Unlike the estimated 67% of US women who terminate their pregnancies upon diagnosis of the disorder, nearly 100% of Icelandic women do so

“My understanding is that we have basically eradicated, almost, Down syndrome from our society,” says geneticist Kari Stefansson

These statistics come straight from the National University Hospital of Iceland, where 70% of Icelandic children are born

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Despite Internet accusations that these abortions are forced, each one is completely by choice, as mothers do receive neutral counseling

Watch this CBS News video for more information:

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In response, people have been sharing stories of their own loved ones living with Down syndrome

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Some have even expressly condemned the Icelandic phenomenon, dubbing it ‘eugenics’

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Others, however, were able to see through the eyes of an expectant mother faced with an impossible decision

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Wrong or reasonable? Tell us your view on the issue in the comments below!

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Troux
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is the same debate as abortion in general. Call it selfish, but some people have certain expectations about the kind of life they want to live. If someone is prepared to be a parent but is not prepared to hold their child's hand all the way into their 30's and to countless therapy sessions, then they should be able to make an honest decision about that rather than start compromising their life as well as others'. A child born into a family of doubts already has two strikes against it and that's not fair to the child. This is just as immoral as choosing what kind of dog you want, rather than just going to the pound and taking any mutt they give. Those who ARE willing to put forth their time as parents or as volunteers to support lives of lesser fortune should be venerated as saints among us, but that means we also must accept that not everyone will be that strong. That doesn't mean they are bad people, it just means they are honest about their limitations as mere humans.

Susan Forbes
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

THIS. And not every DS child is the same, they have a spectrum of abilities and lack of abilities and may have other health issues that impact their quality of life.

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Dayla Walker
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I personally don't think it's any of my business what other people do with their lives. If I was pregnant, and I was ready to be a parent, and the doctor said my baby would have Down Syndrome, I wouldn't get an abortion. But, that's me. Not everyone has the same opinion about things and not everyone feels the same. If it were the government forcing those women to get abortions, I would definitely not support it. But, these women are getting abortions of their own volition so I have no choice but to support them. They're exercising their rights.

Ruth Mitchell
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a 23 year old with Downssyndrome I refused the tests with all 5 of mine coz I wouldn't terminate a pregnancy.Yes I was devastated after she was born but I wouldn't change a thing about her.Doctoright think they know what's best for pregnant mothers and I think they try and force us to have these tests for their own piece of mind.

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Royal_Emperor
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There is nothing wrong in getting tested. Termination or no termination at least the mother will have time to decide and prepare. Ethics my a*s. Science is no fluke, It takes time and lot of money to develop better testing procedure with lots and lots of dead ends. Nothing comes easy or perfectly. Most of the times best solutions, are not ideal solutions. (Sorry went a little off topic)

Caitlin Suzanne
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My youngest child had what is usually a familial eye tumor, found when she was 5 months old. In her case, it was a fluke. The first 5 years were hard, and she lost that eye at 18 months. I always reminded mylself, ‘At least it’s not a cognitive problem,’ counting my blessings all the way. Today, this child is grown, married, a parent and doing wonderfully. Today, I oversee my mother’s properties, medical appointments and finances, because she has dementia. The time involved in the tasks required keep me from working a ‘real’ job. So, I guess I’m saying I see it from both sides, and have deep sympathy no matter what choices a family makes, if they’re able to. Blessings.

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Emma
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It may seem heartbreaking, but the truth is, whatever a woman wants to do with her own body is HER decision and hers only. If a woman chooses an abortion, then it is her right and we need to respect that. It is wrong to try to control someone else's body when it's not our own.

Sleepy Grove
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Also, there is a difference between one's decision to abort a child with DS and thinking people with DS should not be allowed to live in general. You can value these people for who they are and think they are just as valuable as a healthy person and still be of the opinion that you would not be able to raise a child with DS.

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Ana T.
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

life is not black a d white is gray. my grandparents force my mother to married because she was pregnant of me , she blame me of her misfortune life my father was an alcoholic . she beat me sometimes for no reason , one day she was really mad and yell at my face " i was going to abort you and you grandma dont let me. " i was neglected and beat. i dont have a relationship with her. people should judge a woman to have a child people should't judge women choice of an abortion because you cant force someone to love an unwanted child.

Felix Feline
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I know several now elderly people who have a DS child whom they love very much. But the parents are afraid of what will happen to their child once they are gone. Will they be institutionalized? Sent to some group home? Will they be abused? The worries wear them down, aging them prematurely. If no one is forcing the woman to abort the DS fetus, then it is none of our business what they choose to do.

Spring Stroud Moore
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Honestly no matter if your child has problems or not you will always worry about what's going to happen to them once you are gone!

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Elli Tiuku
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well, this is for everyone to decide for themselves. I would choose an abortion, without question. A child with down syndrome is nature's way to show this one was supposed to die. Sometimes mistakes happen, mutations etc. Down syndrome is a mistake, these things happen. For some reason people insist on not seeing them as a mistake. They close their eyes from the truth and pretend they can live a normal happy life. But there is nothing dark or brutal in dealing with this matter as a realist adult who sees the truth.

Eva Tóthová
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

i would give you all my thumbs up Elli Tiuku... DS is a genetic MISTAKE. It is fault on DNA. If you decide to take this burden as a blessing from god to strenghten you up, it's up to you (there are people crucifixing themselves to manifest their faith, so your way is definitely more peacefull and nicer). But it is your decision and you are the one who will live with it(and raising it :D ). Just as you wouldn't like to be judged by others for deciding being a martyr, don't judge others yourself, for choosing other way of dealing with this problem. I would abort a child if diagnosed with possibility of DS without blinking of an eye. of course i would be sad and whatever, but i would know, that my next child, if it would be healthy, would become independent person that would do well in life(and don't start with c**p abour how much DS kids can chieve, because statistics speak otherwise- there are spectacular individuals, but most of these kids has soooo many defects)

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Tina Fusco
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I would definitely abort. I've spent years taking care of the elderly, injured, dying, ill, and infants in my family. Caretaking is the hardest job there is. I'm also disabled myself, high iq but still have a learning disability. I simply do not have the strength or resources to care for someone who is disabled. In fact, I have decided not to have children at all so I don't pass on the family history of alcoholism and mental illness. If someone wants to have a disabled child, then they should. If people know they can't handle it, they should be allowed to abort. simple. no one has a right to life.

Ben Smith
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No one has a right to life??? Are you insane? It's only a guaranteed right in the founding document of America.

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Pragya Fating
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't know why would people think just giving a kid existence is such a chivalric thing to do. Life doesn't matter a dime if it's not productive ND enjoyable. I m not saying this for down's in particular. Just talking about life in general. If the kid can have a life with it, it's good. But so many lives are wasted like this. Don't think about what you can do for the child, instead think can he have a life that he can like ND would want to live. Nobody can be there for anyone all the time. Besides nobody wants to be a burden or a cause of pain to the people they love.

Monilip
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well, sorry for comparation, but Hitler though the same. He though "Jews and Slaws are worse people, they should not reproduce, they should be killed". I say - noone has right to to tell one "Your life is not worthy". To end someone's life, except for self-defense (for example if mother's life is in danger because of pregnancy, or if someone attacts you, at defense war, etc)

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frank0ys
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

...It's up to parents if they can or cannot raise the child afflicted with Down syndrome. What matters is that they love the child and raise it with proper care, love, kindness and courage. We can all talk all day if terminating a child tested positive with Down syndrome is ethical or not. But at the end of the day, it's up to the would-be-parents to choose if they can handle caring for the child.

Deanne Eldred
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm pregnant now, and had a genetic screening done that tests for 13 different genetic disorders and syndromes, down syndrome being one of them. Fortunately, the results showed that my baby is at low risk for all of them, but I had the testing done because I don't know much about genetic disorders, many of the ones they screened for, I've never even heard of before. If the screening had said we were at risk for one of them I would have had a lot of reading and research to do so that I could provide the best chance for my child. Personally, I feel like that's a parent's job, regardless of a child's abilities, or disabilities, it is a parent's job to equip them as best we can so they can be the best person they can be.

Kjorn
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have no doubt the parent love their kids even if they are handicapped. but don't try to tell people that having a kid who have any kind of disability (even slighty) it's better than having a kid who have nothing at all. Let's just be honest with that.

Jennifer Lee
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What's sad is that American women are stupid and brainwashed into thinking that they cannot make the compassionate decision to avoid bringing someone who is doomed to a life of suffering into the world. Maybe mothers of Down Syndrome children don't want to lose their sainthood status as it becomes common knowledge that they could have possibly prevented their child's life of misery in the first place.

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The fact that we pay out of pocket for healthcare should make every parent think twice about deciding to have a special needs child. Love doesn't pay the bills.

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Katinka Min
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sometimes, there is no Right and Wrong. Yes, Downies birng joy and happiness just like all other children, and aborting a baby because it is handicapped is euthanasia. But caring for a handicapped child means hard work till the very last of your days. Every day. Not everybody can carry that kind of burden. I honestly have no idea what my decision would be in such a case.

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Abortion prevents euthanasia. Babies cannot be aborted. You're mislabeling fetal tissue. No babies are ever involved in abortion.

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Jennifer .S
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's not really eradicating downs syndrome, more people are just having abortions. It's still occurring in babies

Monilip
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

*Linda Gulley - are you kidding me? Down Syndrome is random genetic disorder, you cannot "pass it on". Most people with Down Syndrome are infertile anywahy.

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Anja Hübel
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well Down Syndrome is not a disease but a genetic difference that is usually not hereditary. Therefore Iceland cannot "eradicate" the syndrome. My son with Down Syndrome is low functioning but he enjoys life and is loved by all who know him. People who are not loved are the ones who suffer, not people like my son.

Lalita
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

People like your son could be in a situation of not being loved by unprepared parents.

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manowce
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

your child being sick is "the best thing that happened to you"? seriously?

Linda Coleman
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

to say that Iceland has eradicated downs syndrome is misleading. they have not cured the problem, only eliminated the birth of these children. the syndrome still exists.

Mirabilis Mirificaret
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Nobody can eliminate Down syndrome. They eliminate children with Down syndrome. And it makes a difference.

Deserie Sanders
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

To eradicate a disease is to either cure it or develop a vaccine against it, it's not to kill everyone who can "potentially" have it. This isn't healthcare, it's deciding whose life is worth it and whose isn't. Alot of people w/down syndrome lead full and active lives, yes some would argue that not all do and there's a whole spectrum, etc. And sure while I get that there is no way to know which end the child will end up being on. Your basing the decision of the worst case scenario and stigma provided by the doctor whose test only determines that the child may "potentially" have it not which end of the spectrum the child will fall on or even if it's 100% positive that he/she will have it. Test have been wrong before. I used to be in between don't get me wrong, I didn't really like the idea of abortion but understood it in certain scenarios...rape, disabilities like this, where the mother's like was at risk, etc. But then I found out exactly how it's done which is horrifying by the way,

Mindy Keys
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I personally have never become pregnant. I have avoided it very carefully and, fortunately, never even had a worry of being pregnant. That is my choice. I find it disingenuous that people are judging others based upon what they choose to do with their own reproduction. Do I think it's sad and awful that people abort babies? Yes. Do I find it even more sad and awful when they choose to do so based upon a genetic abnormality (sorry, not sure what to call it here) ? Absolutely. It's horrific to me. That said, it's not my business. Abortion is legal. Specific abortion based upon genetic testing is legal. A lot of things I find distasteful are legal, and we simply cannot legislate morality. That is a very slippery slope - in both directions.

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Babies cannot be aborted. They are born. Abortion removes unwanted fetal tissue from a woman's uterus. Using the wrong words causes confusion, often intentional.

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Jef Bateman
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I am interested in what is going to happen when we can fix genetic mutations and other anomalies using CRISPR, zinc finger nucleases, or whatever. There will probably be a lot less neurological diversity in the future.

Full Name
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

CRISPR terrifies me to no end. Mankind has a bit of an inflated idea of how important it is. We can affect mother earth but to think we can actually hurt it fundamentally is ridiculous. Same with all the antibiotics that are creating super bugs. Mother nature will let us know where we stand, and this CRISPR stuff I think gets us one step closer. She is going to look at all this stuff and go "You think you are in control? That's so cute *pats humans on the head and then takes us out with a pathogen*".

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Lynn McDonald
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a DS daughter. She has had many difficulties but I never considered her a burden!! I had to grow after she was born. She taught me more about unconditional love, patience, forgiveness, compassion, and honesty than anyone or anything in this world could have. Her siblings learned about these things and protected her fiercely from any wayward comments or actions. I made the most difficult decision of my life when I found a positive group home for my daughter in her adult years. She is very happy there and feels her "independence". She is absolutely still part of our family, but she will not have to suffer being left alone after I die. In my opinion, terminating a pregnancy due to the discovery of DS is throwing away a gift of great worth. Sure, raising a child with any disability is more "work", but the rewards are beyond what can be easily defined. It wasn't what I expected my life to be...it was well-worth the extra effort.

Monilip
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well, that's what would say father of two-years old, after killing his child and his wife. "My choice, my house, my family, not yours. Enough said".

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RaroaRaroa
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Terminating the existence of everyone with an illness (not sure that's the right word) is not the same as eradicating it. Eradication is done with something like vaccinations that ensure no one ever gets polio again. They are not stopping anyone from having Downs again. What Iceland is doing is closer to the equivalent of killing everyone with polio and going "there, we've eradicated polio". Although in that case it might be effective to stop the spread. Downs Syndrome isn't contagious and , as far as I know, not inherited. So it is completely random and therefore can not be eradicated, just those with it can be. Saying it's up to the mums is not really true either. In a society where no one else has a child like that, it must be very hard to imagine bringing your own into it.

CozaEVE
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My sister has Downs syndrome. I can't imagine a world without her. I can't see why anybody wouldn't want to have someone like her in the world. She lights up the room when she comes and most of the time she is wearing a wonderful smile. I love her who couldn't?

rai mei
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

In the Philippines, from my knowledge, children borne with DS to those with Chinese blood consider them lucky. I have seen many Phil-Chinese families take care of their children with DS as they believe their business will prosper due to that child with DS. For me, having a child with DS or terminating the fetus really depends on the decision of the parents, the lifestyle they live, the future that they want and the mindset the parents have. Personally, I won't mind having one as long as my will remains positive all throughout my life and based on the way how Phil-Chinese families raise their children with DS I believe these children with DS won't hinder my prosperity for the future.

Bengt
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's not worth it. It's kinder. Etc etc... Being a former carer of 17 years I can say that ALL the downs I've met have been the happiest people I've known. It's your societies that's handicapped, not them! Ours fledge the nest at the same age as "normal" kids and get professional help in their own home. Some in communal living with carers working in the apartment. Some in their own flat with help available only when they want or need it. They are so house proud and love to invite their parents over for coffee at the weekend. Not worth it and kinder to whom?

arahana02
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Most of the folks with DS I've met have been high functioning--able to hold down a job and handle their own basic care needs. And most of them have been very pleasant people. But it's dishonest to ONLY talk about those high functioning individuals when the fact is that people with DS can also be lower functioning or severely impaired, and are NOT always angelic happy people. We had a DS student in our class in 5th grade--a special project they tried that year of trying to mainstream special needs kids into regular classrooms. Patty was the size of a large full-grown adult, with the intellect and emotional development of possibly a 3 year old. When she got frustrated or upset--which was every day--she would lash out physically, pushing and hitting. We were all terrified of her. Imagine spending every day of your life trying to handle that, as some parents must do. No. Not for me.

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Wanda Queen
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think someone sure is trying to stir the s**t pot here at BP, this morning. I think I have enough of a vitriolic, contentious social media experience on Facebook. I think I come here to relax and have fun. And mostly, I think I could've done without this.

Meowton Mewsk
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The original post of the man hugging the baby (and the subsequent responses) was on reddit and had absolutely nothing to do with Iceland or the disappearance of individuals being born with downs.

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Lisa Shaw
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is selective breeding, nothing more, nothing less and it is disgraceful! Choosing what children to have like they are set up in a toy store with their descriptions of what they can and cannot do, clearly written on the package.

Cassandra
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The mother feels bad she had her baby stabbed -through- his leg (!) and she still doesn't know if she would have aborted him if he had turned out to be down syndrome?? Does she realise that involves much more violence than the stabbing??

Marion Friedl
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

In Germany we have about the same problems, mothers who give birth to their child with Down Syndrome (which´s not even correct anymore, it´s called Trisomia 21 now) gotta justify for not having "removed" the embryo as soon as it was clear the baby HAS it, WHY??? Those children can grow up like any other child, lately I even saw a docu about a young man who´s been born with Trisomia 21 and studied architecture, has an own office now, and in some German towns young people with that syndrome run hotels or restaurants, with the right support they people with "Down Syndrome" can become anything in their lives, they may have their health problems with the back etc., but they can lead a full and happy life!!!

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They don't grow up like any other child. They require time and money that many people do not have.

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manowce
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

seriously? your kid being sick is "the best thing that happened to you"? who is gonna believe that c**p? of course those kids are not worse than other kids and they deserve love and support, but I will not believe that there's even one parent who would prefer their child being sick!

Dale Lambers
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Not sure the word eliminated is the correct term to use here. Suppressed, or expunged might be better. The genes are still there and still trying to express themselves.

Donna Fernstrom
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's a genetic mutation that occurs spontaneously. It's very rare for it to be passed down from a parent. So the genes actually are NOT there, since they aren't allowing fetuses with them to come to term. It's not substantially different from natural miscarriage.

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Lurchie
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The way this story is presented is misleading. Downs syndrome in Iceland hasn't been eliminated. That suggests that the disorder is being prevented. There would still be the same number of children born with DS as anywhere else . . . IF they were allowed to come to term.

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

But they never exist. There's a lot of confusion with the use of "baby" and "child." The testing predicts Downs Syndrome. By eliminating the fetal tissue, a baby is prevented from ever existing. A baby is something that has been born. Abortion never involves babies.

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Jo Chrisco
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I had a brother and sister with Downs. Doctors present when each were born told my parents to put them in an institution. Thank God, my parents ignored these "doctors". That was the 50's and 60's. Now, I know and accept that our spirits have been sent here to learn and people like my brother and sister are sent as teachers. I feel so sorry for a world that eliminates what has been deemed "imperfect".

Lalita
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You are wrong. Not everybody will abort babies with genetic defects. But having the chance to do it if you cannot handle it is the way to go.

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Emily Keryk
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I work with special needs people and know so many people with Downs that are like you and I, only distinguishable by the facial features. Having Downs does not mean the child will be severely disabled.

KT Trondsen
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think everyone should mind their own business. It is a personal choice that only the parents can make, and no one else!

Lesley Martinez
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

At 18 my first pregnancy tested positive for DS. The father admitted he could not handle that. So facing a DS child alone at 18 I was terrified but I was committed. When preparing for the more invasive test learned my child had died. On th eve of the D.E. ( fancy medical term for abortion to me ) God was gracious enough to allow me to go into labor. At 18 I gave birth to a dead DS child. One of the worst feelings in the world even to this day, but now it is one of the best gifts God ever gave me. He knew I would do it but it would have ruined my young life as well. A year later I gave birth to a beautiful healthy perfect boy. Amateo will always be with me in my heart and soul and can honestly say I'm glad he isn't in this ugly world but in a perfect one. To each their own. I have no right to judge anyone but myself.

Diane Rodríguez
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I was 37 when I got pregnant of my second child. I went to the doctor and he told me he didn’t like to assist women of my age because at this point of the life women had been smoking and drinking too much and that it was a high probability that my child was born with SD and that I needed to make that stupid test. I decided to find another doctor and didn’t do any test at all. My baby girl was born perfectly fine with any SD. I am still so upset with that doctor.

lunanoir69
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

To me, this is similar to wanting to find a "cure" for Autism Spectrum Disorder. I'm Asperger's, as well as most of my family and many of my friends. I am my nephew's caregiver because he is more severely affected by it, and because he was abused and neglected because no one knew how to deal with him. I would never want to cure myself, but I would love a cure for my nephew. Deciding to abort when the child will have a possibly disabling or excruciatingly painful disease isn't an easy decision, it's intensely personal. Our society seems to forget that people with disabilities have just as much to offer our world as anyone else, and that is the biggest problem here!

Eli Sigurðar
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Iceland has a population of 335;000 and pregnancies are around 4000 annually. Given the fact that Down syndrome occurs in approximately one pregnancy in 700; there are about six to seven fetuses diagnosed thus every year. NOT all of them are terminated and those very few people who do choose to end the pregnancy have various reasons for their decision. The ill-grounded condemnation Icelanders have witnessed from various sources in the USA are regrettable, to say the least, and I strongly object to us being painted as heartless monsters who don’t recognise the cuteness of some individuals’ various relatives. It is never easy to decide to have an abortion, and other people’s holier-than-thou attitude is annoying. I suggest the American people take care of ALL their children before getting their noses out of joint over other peoples’ childcare. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/downsyndrome/data.html

Caoimhe Delahunty
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My 9 year old brother has Down's Syndrome. He runs around, loves to play soccer, has loads of friends, is one of three of the most popular kids in the school ( all of whom have some sort of disability/ physical disadvantage) can go to the bathroom on his own, likes cats, dogs and wild birds, loves counting, can talk well, his speech is coming on every day and is very caring. My parents and I and the whole of my family love him dearly. He can be a pain sometimes but so can everyone. I would never abort if my unborn child had Down's Syndrome.

Robert Hoff
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I am pro life. I put 99% of any pregnancy decisions with the mother. If there is a married father involved then maybe he has a voice, but a minority voice. I do think down children and people are the cutest and happiest people on earth. I recognize down children are special and most likely require more help and cost for their care.

Robert Hoff
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sorry, on my above post....I meant to say I am pro choice (as you may have thought by reading the entire post)

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Katherine Head
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My sister has DS. She is 52 & I am 43. I now care for her as birth our parents have passed. I knew even as a young child that if anything happened to our parents I would care for her. I would not have it anyway and could not put her into care. Society should be judged on the way they treat the most vulnerable. I do not know what I would do if I had the test and it was positive. Please remember DS has a wide spectrum of abilities & disabilities, some can have a completely 'normal' life, get married, drive, work etc. Others need to be cared for their whole live. Mandy is somewhere in the middle. If asked the parents of children with DS, especially nowadays the majority would say that having a child with DS although challenging is a wonderful thing, it enriches and makes people more open and accepting of others. In a society which seems at the moment to be more and more self centred maybe we need those people that show us that loving and caring despite hardships is a wonderful thing.

DopethronePunkUK
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Very difficult issue, as someone who hasn't got anyone with Downs to me i can't have much of a say except i do believe it is the mothers choice whether to terminate or not, that goes without saying. What if the family has other children?, does the care for the disabled child come at the detriment of the other children?, are the parents cut out to have this type of responsibility?, not everyone can offer the care the disabled child would need. From a purely human point of view everyone deserves a chance at life regardless of disabilities, i'm not a parent myself but this is one difficult subject, really hard to give a valid, definitive answer, very sad and difficult.

Jim Hubbard
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That's like saying in 1944 that almost all Jews have been eliminated from Germany. Killing babies with challenges is NOT the same as eliminating the cause of those challenges in the first place.

Johanna Zamora
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sit through a medical ethics course. While people howl about a woman's right to choose, no one blinks at the lack of mental health counseling that should be closely associated with plastic surgery. People tend to tight eugenics with personal choice together it is very different. (You could get a degree in Eugenics as late as the 1970's - scary, it's only gone now thanks to the one guy who took it to the nth degree and shut up all the progressive notions about culling people out of the herd.)

Aunt Messy
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Several long term studies have shown that the dominant emotion women feel after they get abortions is relief. It's a gestation slaver lie that women "regret" their abortions. Women do not do this on a whim. They know what they want. We are adults making adult decisions and no one has the right to second guess that. Ever.

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Harry L Gillen Jr
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a 52yo brother with Down Syndrome and I cried when I read how many children are being aborted do to this disorder. I agree with a woman's right to abortion but I couldn't imagine my life without my brother in it. He was given 6 months to live after his birth do to cva's Dr's said he would never be able to care for himself and never be able to walk or talk. 52 years later and about 100 Special Olympic medals earned he is doing great walks and talks (way too much!) and is loved by our entire family. He is the brightest star in our family he is my best friend and I love him more than anything in life.

Deborah Watson Steele
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And what would you baby killers do if you birthed what you thought was a normal child who then became disabled? Give them up for adoption? Throw them off a bridge?

Morgan Morgan
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

An extremely personal decision. But there is no doubt that having a child with Downs Syndrome will rob any other child in the family of the time and attention they would otherwise have with a parent. There is also no doubt that not everyone is up to the life long challenges of caring for child that comes with a child with Downs Syndrome. In some cases, it comes down to surrendering one life for another. I don't know if it's fair to ask anyone to do that, or to criticize those who choose not to. To choose one's own life for a potential life that has yet to be born, is not selfish; it is human. IMO.

Virginia Smith
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a genetic disability. I'm in a wheelchair and every day it progresses. I volunteer and work as a substitute teacher, I write and there is not in the aspect that my disability does not affect. It is very hard and often humiliating.I would not doom my children to friedreich's ataxia.

Carolyn Barker
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Believe it or not there will come a time when it will cost so much to treat children, teens and adults who were born healthy that public opinion will eventually be swayed into accepting that abnormal fetuses must be aborted. The same will apply to the other end of the life cycle. The health budget will be withdrawn from older citizens and redirected to those who will potentially have longer to live with a better quality of life outcome. Sounds harsh, but at the end of the day it's always money behinds government decisions.

Peter Korsten
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

We have a child with high-functioning autism. Compared to the autistic children that can't even speak, he's so much more capable. He'll -probably- be able to live independently. But my goodness, it's hard at times. It wears you down. So the prospect of having a child with a much worse impact on your lives, that will probably die around the age of 40, and that will have serious health issues throughout life... I can see why not everybody is able to inflict that on themselves, and on the child.

Greg Grimer
Community Member
5 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I love it when people say they love their children "unconditionally" and "no matter what", but when faced with some possible hardship they murder them in the womb because the conditions were not ideal. Liberals are such dishonest and selfish pigs.

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Jeannette Davis
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

In what mind do they think they have eradicated Downs... It will continue to present itself to any population. All they are doing is killing those children who will be born with it... Now when they come back and say that there are no more pregnancies presenting with Down, THEN they can make this assertion... for now it just plain selfish and murder. And do they believe that everyone thinks that the decision to willingly terminate is at close to 100% in their country? I personally don't believe that for a minute. Which makes their assertion all that scarier.

Robin McIntosh
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The test isn't just for Downs Syndrome. My sister had the test and it came back positive and had further testing. Her daughter was born with her intestines on the outside. Then my sister-in-law didn't have the test and she delivered a pre term baby without a brain. The test would have told her that. My grandsons mom just didn't have it. But we knew something was wrong. Genetic testing showed he is missing gene 13-11-2. She blamed it on my son but it's related to spina bifida. She had spina bifida.

Donna Fernstrom
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Terminate -- it's a potential person, not a person. Miscarriages are super common. Not every pregnancy has to end in a child, and many of them don't. The goal should be a healthy child, not just whatever fate and nature happen to produce. We need to stop romanticizing disabilities. They should be prevented when they can, and cured when they cannot be prevented. No one is better off having a disability than they would be not having one.

Lalita
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's completely reasonable. Parents might be not prepared emotionally or economically to support a child with a genetic disorder, the same way they could not be prepared to have a perfectly healthy child.

Vincent Jay
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

When I clicked on the headline, I expected some sort of announcement like "Polio has been eradicated." In other words, I expected that some sort of medical breakthrough had occurred. What I read is more akin to a moslem praising the Jews for eradicating themselves through voluntary abortions. It doesn't feel right.

Jeannette Davis
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I agree with you Vincent, I thought they have found a way to stop Down.... but, alas... Now like you expecting a medical breakthrough and what we have here is nothing more than mental manipulation of the vulnerable mental state of these families to be. To try and call it eugenics is ridiculous.

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Liesl Jager
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

“My understanding is that we have basically eradicated, almost, Down syndrome from our society,” says geneticist Kari Stefansson. If you read and listen to this sentence, the implication is that "we" have eradicated THE PEOPLE suffering from Down Syndrome in "our" society. The syndrome itself has not been eradicated at all. This comes down eerily to eugenics. This is truely heartbreaking.

Pamela Storer
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They haven't "eradicated" Downs Syndrome, otherwise known as Trisomy - 21. No-one knows what causes non-disjunction at meiosis which leads to the condition. All they've done is eradicate babies because they dont like the look of them. Most Downs is what is called Mosaic. It' doesn't manifest in all cells. Some Downs people are very high functioning. Every single Downs child I ever cared for - and it was a few - was incredibly loving, affectionate, gentle and humerous. They can worry as they dont know their own strength and dont have the built in reserve we have - they dont know not to hug too hard. But they are special people, and deserve a chance at life. I'm sorry and frankly horrified to read this. Iceland just went down in my estimation.

Aunt Messy
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And some are NOT high functioning and will need to be bathed, diapered, and fed like babies for their entire lives. Do YOU want to explain to a grown man with an adult libido but the mental age of two that they shouldn't masturbate in public? Do YOU want to deal with an adult woman with a mental age of three who throws a tantrum, kicking and screaming and biting? ... People look at Down's Syndrome kids and adults that are in Special Olympics posters and so on, and they never stop to think that these people are the outliers. They're RARE in the world of Down's. ..... The saddest human being I've ever met was a man with Down's Syndrome who had a job at a grocery store. He was very high functioning....just high functioning enough to understand that he would never have a normal life.

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Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have mixed feelings about this...every termination is a beautiful child who will never see their own mothers face...and there's nothing wrong with Down syndrome

Paul Garlick
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Except not every pregnancy is "a beautiful child who will never see their own Mother's face", is it? Not every pregnancy is carried to term, some miscarry, some are still births.

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Maggie Collins
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is a private decision for the mother or the mother and father. Especially important if you are a single mom. I know who I am and what I am capable of as do most adults. People must make this decision of their own volition knowing what they are capable of. We are not talking about a few months but of decades of completley giving yourself and your life up to help someone else whom you love. I cannot imagine making that decision. God help anyone who must.

Erisa Desu
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

in modern day, we see people with down syndrome to advance in society, actors, artists and even professors. Down syndrome has many levels, but modern science has found ways for to educate these kids and to advance their skills. I don't judge them for choosing not to have children with down syndrome, but I have to say that even those kids can now have a better life. I hope more people will realise that down syndrome is not something that you can't handle with effort and hard work. But I speak without having any children of my own.

Master Markus
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well... That's good then, isn't it? Not everyone with Down Syndrome has it really bad, but having less of a chance of being born with it at all sounds like a fantastic result of abortions. We could eradicate all sorts of genetic-caused suffering!

Ja Legge
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Wow. The photo made me cry with joy. He has so much love for that baby. Precious!!!

Sojourner
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's nothing wrong with being born with Down's. It results from an extra chromosome in nondisjunction, so the parents can't be blamed for a faulty egg. Or sperm.

Elaine Marten
Community Member
1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I am pro life, so I am wondering what the difference is to abort a downs syndrome baby and a 'normal' healthy baby...abortion is abortion, it still kills. If it's so wrong by many opinions, to abort a downs baby, why is it ok to abort a normal pregnancy? And if its 'so right' to have abortions available, why is it even questioned if someone is having a downs baby and they abort it..double standard to me

missing B
Community Member
5 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My husband and I recently ended our T21 pregnancy and it was the most heart wrenching decision I have made. I work with T21 kids, and never imagined ending a DS pregnancy, and even imagined that it wouldn't be a big issue if we had a T21 baby, but once it became our reality, my view changed. I would have had the baby had my husband wanted, but he firmly supported termination. It scared me to think that he wouldn't be 100% supportive if our child had major health issues and countless therapies. Given my experience with T21, I also realize that life for the child, parent, and family can be difficult. I suppose it was a combination of those reasons that led us to termination. I wish I could say that I am confident in our decision, but I'm not and think about how I could be looking forward to his birth. I now understand why a person would end a T21 pregnancy but can also understand how a mother could never do that. Once you have walked in these shoes, your opinion can quickly change.

Liviu Mihoc
Community Member
5 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This entire debate is pointless. In the western world abortion if absolutely healthy foetuses is LEGAL since decades and noone has any ethical problems with it. So then what: ok to abort perfect healthy foetuses just because they don't fit into your life plan but genocide if you decide to abort a foetus that has an incurable & severely limiting genetic disease!?

Lauren Puckett
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I am not against abortion. I am very much pro choice (your body, your decision, I could never). So the really sad part about all of this, these genetic tests they perform are not 100% accurate. They are not even 75% accurate. So for those of you saying you will abort if you get a positive test, just know you are probably aborting a perfectly healthy fetus that probably does not have a chromosomal abnormality. Oh and something else to take into account, the more abortions you have the less likely you are to go on to have a successful pregnancy.

Linda Keegan
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Everyone loves young Down’s, but what happens when they are 50 and Mum is too old to look after them, who thinks they are cute then - no one!

Hannah Howard
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have Crohns, which is potentially genetic, so I have made the decision to not have children. We are f*****g with evolution and letting the bad and good genes stay?! We can look after everyone, but should we?

Carol McManus
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Our 20 year old son has Down Syndrome. He's made me, my husband, and my other son better human beings. I thank God that I was lucky enough to be chosen to be his mother.

Bored-Panda4Communism
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Didn't work! instead they imported all these inbreed refugees with an iq lower than Down syndrome

Phyllis Ramos
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I had a blood test to check if my daughter would have down syndrome .the blood work showed a chance she might. Did a high resolution ultrasound to look for detailed signs thankfully she did not. But My husband and I were scared but we decided if she did we would deal with it and make her life wonderful. But during the test time it is a baby a little person I feel it's too late to abort I would feel like a murderer. What about Autisim you usually don't know until child is about 3 and there is so many levels of Autisim. If they could test for it in utiro and offered same thing would you ? Without knowing your baby could be a autistic high functioning and could live a normal life with social coaching . Being different should not be a death sentence that goes for all disability's mental physical and ect .

Spring Stroud Moore
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You're right we can't make decisions for other people and it's her body. Just makes me sad that just because your babies not perfect you don't love it. I have five children and other didn't do the test on any of them. I would love them regardless of any problems they had. If I had to dedicate my life to caring for them I would. My brother has CP and I couldn't imagine life without him! He is an awesome person who babysits my kids, works and helps pay bills. If my parents would have chosen to rid the pregnancy they would have killed a person with tons of potential. Just because they have a genetic default doesn't mean they will be helpless. My brother is my kids favorite uncle and gave my parents joy all through life!

John Hinnenkamp
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Icelandic Women...way to take Hitler's final solution one step further! genetic cleansing! https://www.facebook.com/Ashton/videos/10154756853347820/

Rosie Clancy
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think it is up to the individual. I think they have a a hard enough time making that decision. How many of the condemners have had to look after a severely disabled person for years? I couldn't do it again. Walk in someones shoes BEFORE you judge them.

CounterPunch
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

" “My understanding is that we have basically eradicated, almost, Down syndrome from our society,” geneticist Kari Stefansson told CBS." By simply KILLING everyone that is at risk of having it... that IS Eugenics at it's Worst... deal with it...

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Preventing is not killing. No one is or has been killed. You're confusing your emotions with facts.

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TC
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I cannot judge anybody for this. I would not like to be in the situation to take a decision.

Tony Lobosco
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sounds like the first step in creating a Master Race. Herr Adolph would applaud the effort.

Michael Armstrong
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Here's a question: Would you like to be a Downs person? Didn't think so.

Donna Fernstrom
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's nothing moral about deliberately bringing a fetus with serious disabilities to term, knowing that baby will experience substantially more misery, hardship, and medical issues in their life than someone without those disabilities. Life isn't everything. Quality matters. It's moral to bring healthy children into the world, and choose not to bring unhealthy ones into the world. Peoples' quibbling over this is based in religion and their perception of abortion, and nothing else. There's no universal morality.

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Irene Walton
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I myself would not want a DS baby and would terminate the pregnancy with no second thought

Full Name
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's a zero sum game, from a certain point of view. If you decide you want 2 children and you already have one, then having a DS child now means you won't be having another child in the future. If you don't have the DS child now, then you will have another in the future. Either way you are deciding how many and when to conceive so "when does life begin" arguments aside, it's a zero sum game so goes morality even enter into it?

Raven Mystique
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a 19yr old son, with Severe Autism. I had the prenatal screening done, for both of my sons. I had the screening; NOT to choose to abort either of my Children but rather, to be prepared, should the screening have come back Positive; so I could research & be as best prepared as I could, for when my sons was born! I have Infertility & was told @ the age of 16, that I would NEVER, EVER be able to conceive a child on my own! The honor of being blessed to be thes 2 Angels Mother, I can't put into words! BELIEVE ME, the gifts Your child gives You; DISABILITY or not; One can't possibly fathom, @ birth! I couldn't possibly imagine LIFE, Without either of my 2 VERY, unique incredible sons & DOn'T EVER listen to ANYONE, but Your Heart! Trust that You've GOT THIS! Your Child, ALWAYS will FAR EXCEED anything a 'so-called expert" will say @ Birth! The Gifts Your Special Child will Give You & The World, fall nothing short of a MIRACLE & the True Meaning of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE!

Raven Mystique
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

With my above answer, I do want to add, I have to agree with every answer below! I was the product of a teenage Mother, who did NOT want me & was her verbal, emotinal & phsycial punching bag; hating me because everytime she looked @ me, she blamed me 'for stealing her life" as she was forced to marry my father or the family would bear the shame of an unwed teenage mother, back in the 60s. But, I do have to agree, it's NOBODY's choice, but the Mother/Parents! Far Better, to have a loving, supportive home & parents that want this child, than resentfully raising an unwanted child because of fear of 'Societal Judgement' or worse!!!

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Nia Loves Art
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There needs to be more public awareness of the fact that many people with Down Syndrome are fairly high functioning, as well as better social support for people with disabilities. If that were the case there would be less of these abortions.

Jenn Cunningham
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I had both my pregnancies tested. If I had ever had a diagnosis for it and I trusted the reliability of results (2nd opinion and tests etc.) I would have aborted that in a heartbeat. What a horrible thing, to promote retardation as a "good thing" in society!

DeadStillPretty
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Articles like these are heartbreaking to me. As someone with a neurological condition, I'd have been one of those winnowed out. Truly, it's the internet debating whether you have the right to your very existence. It's surreal and maddening, also, viewing comments under articles like these also (I don't mean here, more on facebook and such. They could give Hitler a run for his money)

Virgil Blue
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Even if most people with downs are very nice people it's still a disorder that can severely limit them and that completely turns their lives and the lives of their families upside down forever. So I say give people the choice now it is available and don't judge them poorly if they want a "regular " life.

Lyn Worrall
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Really disappointed with this page spreading the iceland lie. The war on women's reproductive rights is being faught worldwide, we are fighting in ireland to change our laws abs the antichoice campaign are using this lie to try to continue a law that allows for a 14yr sentence for anyone who has or helps someone have an abortion. Please do some research before sharing these types of stories. Thanks for reading

Daesai Sereiphiel
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's a personal choice, for sure. Is there any research to show that down syndrome is "bad"? Societal standards don't mean much because they're always being changed and usually don't have a basis in science/reason. Is DS really bad? What if its an essential part of our evolution? Do we really understand the DS gene and what its purpose is in the greater genome? I don't think we have enough information to really judge whether one gene or another deserves preference. Honestly, we all have the DS gene. It's just a matter of training our body to keep it off or to allow it to continue turning on randomly. There's a lot of "junk" DNA in our body. DNA that we do not understand the purpose of. I don't think it's a good idea to "phase" DS genes out until we fully understand the human genome.

BouncyFrog
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Do you even know what DS is? Cause you are wrong on so many levels! 1) DS is a mistake that happens while separating chromosomes during meiosis. It is therefore absolutely and undeniably 'bad'. 2) Societal standards have nothing to do with deciding if DS is bad if they can't successfully reproduce and raise children themselves (kinda the purpose of life). 3) DS can't be an essential part of evolution because the point of evolution is survival and these people can't survive on their own. 4) DS isn't passed down genetically, so there is no DS gene at all. And a non-existing gene doesn't have a role in the greater picture. NOBODY has a DS gene, and even if we did you would never be able to 'train' your body to turn it on or off. 5) 'Junk' DNA was a term coined to label DNA that did not encode proteins and therefore didn't have a visible function. It has long been discovered that this DNA does have a vital function for the human body. So we pretty much do understand the full human genome

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Deb Orah
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Whatever disability a genetic test might show up in an unborn child, it is the mother's choice to terminate or not, in the same way as she has the right to terminate any child she does not want. I have only two children from 5 pregnancies. I have been there and been offered the choice to abort a child who ended up being stillborn. Obviously I didn't abort because I wanted to give my child a chance at life. But I was young and didn't even consider the consequences if my daughter had been born with a disability. Both my existing kids have conditions inherited from their father and my younger son has Asperger's. So what that he's high functioning compared to someone with DS? He's not happy with his life and often asks why was he born? I think having children is intrinsically a very selfish act and if you're prepared to bring a child into the world, you have to be prepared to cope with all the positives and negatives of parenthood, because once you have kids that's it. No going back.

CounterPunch
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

So you advocate for Eugenics... Hitler would be proud... Since when does "disability" Invalidate a Human being's Right to LIVE?..

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Laurie Veneklasen
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The initial victims of the Nazi genocide were also handicapped people completely of their parents volition. Please explain the difference!

Rhonie Ventura
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's nobody's business really. Especially when they don't give an F about what others think. Instead of lambasting them, why not pledge to adopt the child, to you know, ease your moral senses. Don't get me wrong a life is a life, but in these situations, Its not up to any one else but the parents.

Greg Grimer
Community Member
5 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If that is true then, logically, is it not up to the future adoptive parents? Should a person be allowed to abort if adoptive parents have already agreed to bring the child up. Does avoiding the inconvenience of 5 months of being pregnant give a woman the moral right to murder her child and deny it the right to live with adoptive parents who love that child? Would you support making abortion illegal in the case where adoptive parents were pre-screened and ready to adopt a child? The parent is not the birth giver but the person taking on the next 20 to 50 years of responsibility. Their rights should superseed the mother, correct?

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Wayne Franklin
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm not sure as to the objective of this article. Are you condemning Iceland or pointing them out as a goal-oriented society that tries to cap medical costs by preventing disease?

Alexandr Valiulin
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is the Future with big first symbol. It's the Future where you can choose good life for you childs, without gene diseases, with good heredity and potential. Leave in past this useless "born every thing that will get out from your womb", adequate people want give good thing to children.

Sašo Muc
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My god, yes it's nice to see some stories of parents that teach their child to cook and basic care for them self, but what you don't see is trauma of everyone that is not so lucky. The it has more severe cases and less so. One patient came to hospital on 1- 2 month basis because she can't control her movements or is violent, and she breaks her bones sometimes legs sometimes hands... And none will say she is happy like that. Being in chair, and be burden to parents. You cud sometime see the exhaustion. Yes there are also young ones that parents bring them in in their hands, but man when they grow up if it's bad, i mean please at least try again. I know you love your child no matter what, but your life is over and not in parenting way.

Dieter Zerressen
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

We're not raising pets, we're raising future human beings who need to be able to function, independently, in a more and more complex society. Parents are free to choose what to do but if you make a choice that you know will cost taxpayers and society hundreds of thousands of dollars then you are on your own. Amazing how the right wing christians will always lie to try to make a point because they have no legitimate point to make.

Maureen Howard
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Not every person wants to, or is capable of caring for a DS kid. I think many that keep DS children do so out of guilt of what others would say! I would not. I do not want todo that for the rest of my life. I could not and would not burden society or anyone else with such a child. I am not going to be a martyr so that others can say I am so wonderful for caring for my kid that will never care for thenself, live by themself, or even fall in love. Very few have sucessful lives.

John Laidlaw
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Personally, I would not consider terminating a pregnancy simply due to risk of Down's Syndrome. None of our three are Downsies, though I do know a few - and know that )a thee is a huge variation in severity of symptoms, and b) a wide variation in how well they can function later in life - with some even able to hold jobs, and feel worthwhile. I am also fairly certain my wife is of the same way of thinking. However, I would not condemn those who do so choose - for one thing, I'm not the person putting up time, case, and effort in raising that child. I am concerned, though, about the implications of ethnic cleansing involved in such actions, and the assumptions about the value of a life - even in such a climate as Iceland's.

Gertrud Christensen
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Do your research, Sally - that is a really bad article; manipulative and borderline slanderous. Fake news. https://www.abortionrightscampaign.ie/2017/11/28/lets-talk-about-iceland/

Lyn Worrall
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Really disappointed with this page spreading the iceland lie. The war on women's reproductive rights is being faught worldwide, we are fighting in ireland to change our laws abs the antichoice campaign are using this lie to try to continue a law that allows for a 14yr sentence for anyone who has or helps someone have an abortion. Please do some research before sharing these types of stories.

Marie Camerlin- Slater
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Ok, people saying this is acceptable but then have a memorial card made with the baby's footprints for the grieving process. there wouldn't be any grieving if you didn't have the abortion. because it's wrong! So sad to play God.

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What memorial? There's nothing to grieve. Do you grieve with every menstrual period? Same thing? Getting rid of unwanted tissue.

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Celestia
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The claim that preborn children are part of women's bodies flies in the face of modern science. Preborn children are dependent upon their mothers, but they are not part of them. They have their own blood type, bone structure, and genetic code. In fact, the notion that the preborn is part of the mother would result in inane conclusions—such as the mother having four arms, four legs, and, in the case of a preborn boy, even male genitalia. We also know there are limits to 'choice.' The autonomy of any one person does not permit her to infringe on the rights of, or endanger, another. For example, the right of a man to do what he wants with his body does not permit him to rape women. And a woman’s right to do what she wants with her hands ends when she uses them to drown her children. Choice, then, is not absolute. Indeed, some choices are wrong: rape, murder, abuse, etc. Since we would not allow a mother to kill her born children by choice, we must not permit her to kill her fetus

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The fetal tissue is not viable. It is dependent on its host for life. It cannot exist independently. Women are people with bodily autonomy and anything inside that body is theirs. It is their right to decide what happens to anything on or inside their body. A fetus is not a person. It does not have rights.

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Odd Jørgensen
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Booo, bad Iceland, but what about the UK, or Denmark, with 90% and 98% terminations? Every woman should get to decide for themselves what to do, not everyone is willing or able to care 24/7 for a special needs child for the rest of their life.

Just saying
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The word 'holocaust' means the consigning of bodies to a fire. In Nazi Germany, thousands of 'handicapped' people, including DS people, were terminated and incinerated. We're not like the Nazis though, of course, because we terminate and incinerate 'handicapped' people before they are born.

Jessabelle
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Why is this important? Who cares! Is it a disease to have downs? Like " ok guys, downs have been contained and we don't get those types of people here! " smh

Debbie Andersson
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Poking a needle through the stomach sounds highly uneccesary, downs or not, what if they kill the fetus with the needle without the mother even wanted an abortion to begin with? And what would happen if she keeps it without knowing it´s dead, some sort of posioning that puts her life at risk? Good going...Not.

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If they do in your stomach, that's a problem. Fetuses generally are not eaten.

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makki
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Both the people who are going through abortion and those who decide not to are both incredibly strong and both are still human. you definitely cannot blame a person for going through the abortion and you definitely can't blame a person for not going through it! I absolutely hate it when people gate on people who do go through the abortion because it was probably hard enough for them as it is without you judging them for it! STAY STRONG AND TRUE TO YOUR OPINIONS!! <3 <3

William Morales
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think most of agree on having the right, and why we make that decision. I guess what bothers me is that this country is actively campaigning people in that direction, it seems bit disturbing.

Rio Nido San Clementes
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm wondering at what stage in pregnancy they can do the test, & then at what stage they abort....from the article it seems that the fetus already has legs...

Jeni Blankenship
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There are tests available as early 10-13 weeks (this can be done with a genetic blood test on the mother through companies like Natera). Before those tests were available (and in cases where the family can't afford them currently), people usually had to wait later for an ultrasound and the ability to do an amniocentesis. When a woman might chose to abort would likely largely depend on when they were able to test and whether or not they wanted to follow up the initial test with additional tests.

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Joyce Berman
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I know that Downs Syndrome children can be loving, and some may learn to be nearly self-sufficient, but it should be up to the parents whether they are willing to take on this challenge. I'm against abortion, but still think the parents get to make the decision on this one, or in the case of any other horrible birth defect that is not treatable/curable. Hard to say that everyone's opinion should agree with mine.

Daesai Sereiphiel
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's a personal choice, for sure. Is there any research to show that down syndrome is "bad"? Societal standards don't mean much because they're always being changed and usually don't have a basis in science/reason. Is DS really bad? What if its an essential part of our evolution? Do we really understand the DS gene and what its purpose is in the greater genome? I don't think we have enough information to really judge whether one gene or another deserves preference. Honestly, we all have the DS gene. It's just a matter of training our body to keep it off or to allow it to continue turning on randomly. There's a lot of "junk" DNA in our body. DNA that we do not understand the purpose of. I don't think it's a good idea to "phase" DS genes out until we fully understand the human genome. Additionally, it's just inhumane. Have these people never heard of adoption?

Blue Cicada
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I work with students with a variety of developmental disabilities. An extra 23rd chromosome presents a cardiac, digestive tract, and cognitive issues. These "higher maintenance" children grow up to be loving and lovable adults. Multiple factors affect how high functioning and how independent a person with ds can be. The average person with ds has just as good a quality of life as anyone else. Testing pregnant women with the goal of eliminating healthy ds fetuses isn't just unethical, it's stupid. You're literally preventing healthy fetuses from having the chance to grow into interesting, funny, hard working and lovable adults. You want to reduce the chances of a baby born with painful, long term, debilitating deformities and developmental delays? Stop alcohol and drug use in pregnant women. Immediate residential treatment for any pregnant woman who wants it. Fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal drug addiction are the true problems

Michelangelo
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is f****d up they try to frame the people who think it's horrible as the bad ones when their not. Some people say it's just like the debate on abortion but it's not they're specifically targeting baby's with Down syndrome. This is practically what the nazis did by killing people with disabilities and now it's being portrayed as some graceful act of mercy who's next old people. It's ironic how the left use the word nazi as an insult but are completely oblivious to the fact that they are turning into them.

Gillian Black
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

so we kill them off do we I thought this was about finding a cure, discusting is all I can say, these precious people are what makes the world go round, who are we to judge, all our children are God given , I had one with Muscular Dystrophy, and one with a double hare lip, soon with it be that all with these will be terminated because they dont fit the norm. Both my boys did well at school and had and have great jobs , married , and had children of there own, and yes one of my grandies has Asperges oh no should have killed her off , yeah right , my Duchenne muscular my boy died at 27 we were given a life of 16 years he lived a full and happy life, even marrying. Downs kids are great and can do everything , who is to say we are normal , what is normal and who is the judge, one day we will face our maker , and try talking your way out of this one, a disabled person is a person with a difference that is all and we are all different. so work it out for your selves

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There is NO HEART at 6 weeks. A clump of pulsing cells is not a formed heart. Ben - you can get help. There is information from factual sources available. Falcon - I know all about fetal development. Seems you could use a refresher that is factual. Fetal tissue is not viable and not a person. Gillian - Where is your obstetrics practice located? I want to be sure none of my friends see you since you are not able to comprehend medical facts. Conception!? Two cells is a person now? That's just madness.

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Leo McKinnon
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How do ypu eliminate down syndrom in Iceland by aborting the fetus ? It is a genetic predisposition . It's not like the downies are getting married and having downie children. Also it would be impossible to eliminte the downie from your dna. Downies have been around for centuries and always will be. Love them like the human being that they are !!!

Nyree Huh
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

For everyone bitching about this, IF you want rights to be taken away from others why don't we choose what rights you shouldn't have either. Maybe to clean water or something, how would you like that? mind your own business what others choose to do, if they can't take care of these children do you honestly think it's better for them to rot in orphanages or foster care, or are you the one who will swoop in and save / adopt them don't think you are are you.

Mn gooze
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"....from the National University Hospital of Iceland, where 70% of Icelandic children are born" That sentence alone says alot about the specialized medical situtation in iceland. I Just googled the terms "iceland hospitals" and Maps showed me 13 hospitals and one of em was an animal hospital. I'm sure there are some smaller hospitals and medical centers that don't show up on Maps but still. I live in a major metropolitan area and we have major 12 hospitals.

Patrick Bateman
Community Member
7 years ago

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Why would you not have this test done? I would want to know whether or not my child would 've born with a disability and have the option to terminate. Why not eradicate downs or any other life changing handicap? We eradicated smallpox and it was a good thing. I guess it just comes down to which side of the line you're on when it comes to abortion.

Monilip
Community Member
7 years ago

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I thiknk testing is a good thing. If I know about problem (and child with Down Syndrom is a problem) I can prepare for it. But I am against eugenics and killing people just because they may be disabled. I don't think we should be allowed to kill disabled people, both born and unborn.

Tiari
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The thing is... can you allow women to abort healthy fetuses, but prohibit the abortion of a sick fetus? That is not really an option, isn't it?

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KeeperOfProphecies
Community Member
7 years ago

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Terrible. We need more people with low-functioning brains in the world.

Mike Rota
Community Member
7 years ago

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I don't see why eliminating this genetic disorder is unethical! Is it more ethical for society to have to support someone who is incapable of caring for themselves? Normally I'm against abortion, but in cases of genetic abnormalities I'm all for it.

Celestia
Community Member
7 years ago

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abortions should be illegal if you don't want to have a child give it to an adoption center, who knows what they can become..... smh, too many people are too quick to judge.....

Dschulidschi
Community Member
7 years ago

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The problem is that an Icelandic women seems not to have any choice but to abort the unborn due to the society she lives in... In an environment where you can see kids and grown ups with these kind of 'handicap' (it comes in different ways and a lot of these people can live a good and healthy life!), it might be a lot easier to decide PRO baby...

Sierra Hall
Community Member
7 years ago

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My aunt was tested and told that my cousin (who is the same age as me) would have autism. Guess what, he didn't. Test can be wrong.

Ben Smith
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There is no definitive test for autism in a fetus. The doctor may have said, "there is a higher probability for autism" or something along those lines, but would never have said, "your baby has autism."

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Vicki Gallmeyer
Community Member
7 years ago

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abortion is wrong, period...from natural conception to natural death...the way God intended it

Aunt Messy
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You don't like abortion? Don't get one. Now quit trying to shove your nose up our crotches and tend to your own.

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Troux
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is the same debate as abortion in general. Call it selfish, but some people have certain expectations about the kind of life they want to live. If someone is prepared to be a parent but is not prepared to hold their child's hand all the way into their 30's and to countless therapy sessions, then they should be able to make an honest decision about that rather than start compromising their life as well as others'. A child born into a family of doubts already has two strikes against it and that's not fair to the child. This is just as immoral as choosing what kind of dog you want, rather than just going to the pound and taking any mutt they give. Those who ARE willing to put forth their time as parents or as volunteers to support lives of lesser fortune should be venerated as saints among us, but that means we also must accept that not everyone will be that strong. That doesn't mean they are bad people, it just means they are honest about their limitations as mere humans.

Susan Forbes
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

THIS. And not every DS child is the same, they have a spectrum of abilities and lack of abilities and may have other health issues that impact their quality of life.

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Dayla Walker
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I personally don't think it's any of my business what other people do with their lives. If I was pregnant, and I was ready to be a parent, and the doctor said my baby would have Down Syndrome, I wouldn't get an abortion. But, that's me. Not everyone has the same opinion about things and not everyone feels the same. If it were the government forcing those women to get abortions, I would definitely not support it. But, these women are getting abortions of their own volition so I have no choice but to support them. They're exercising their rights.

Ruth Mitchell
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a 23 year old with Downssyndrome I refused the tests with all 5 of mine coz I wouldn't terminate a pregnancy.Yes I was devastated after she was born but I wouldn't change a thing about her.Doctoright think they know what's best for pregnant mothers and I think they try and force us to have these tests for their own piece of mind.

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Royal_Emperor
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There is nothing wrong in getting tested. Termination or no termination at least the mother will have time to decide and prepare. Ethics my a*s. Science is no fluke, It takes time and lot of money to develop better testing procedure with lots and lots of dead ends. Nothing comes easy or perfectly. Most of the times best solutions, are not ideal solutions. (Sorry went a little off topic)

Caitlin Suzanne
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My youngest child had what is usually a familial eye tumor, found when she was 5 months old. In her case, it was a fluke. The first 5 years were hard, and she lost that eye at 18 months. I always reminded mylself, ‘At least it’s not a cognitive problem,’ counting my blessings all the way. Today, this child is grown, married, a parent and doing wonderfully. Today, I oversee my mother’s properties, medical appointments and finances, because she has dementia. The time involved in the tasks required keep me from working a ‘real’ job. So, I guess I’m saying I see it from both sides, and have deep sympathy no matter what choices a family makes, if they’re able to. Blessings.

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Emma
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It may seem heartbreaking, but the truth is, whatever a woman wants to do with her own body is HER decision and hers only. If a woman chooses an abortion, then it is her right and we need to respect that. It is wrong to try to control someone else's body when it's not our own.

Sleepy Grove
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Also, there is a difference between one's decision to abort a child with DS and thinking people with DS should not be allowed to live in general. You can value these people for who they are and think they are just as valuable as a healthy person and still be of the opinion that you would not be able to raise a child with DS.

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Ana T.
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

life is not black a d white is gray. my grandparents force my mother to married because she was pregnant of me , she blame me of her misfortune life my father was an alcoholic . she beat me sometimes for no reason , one day she was really mad and yell at my face " i was going to abort you and you grandma dont let me. " i was neglected and beat. i dont have a relationship with her. people should judge a woman to have a child people should't judge women choice of an abortion because you cant force someone to love an unwanted child.

Felix Feline
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I know several now elderly people who have a DS child whom they love very much. But the parents are afraid of what will happen to their child once they are gone. Will they be institutionalized? Sent to some group home? Will they be abused? The worries wear them down, aging them prematurely. If no one is forcing the woman to abort the DS fetus, then it is none of our business what they choose to do.

Spring Stroud Moore
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Honestly no matter if your child has problems or not you will always worry about what's going to happen to them once you are gone!

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Elli Tiuku
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well, this is for everyone to decide for themselves. I would choose an abortion, without question. A child with down syndrome is nature's way to show this one was supposed to die. Sometimes mistakes happen, mutations etc. Down syndrome is a mistake, these things happen. For some reason people insist on not seeing them as a mistake. They close their eyes from the truth and pretend they can live a normal happy life. But there is nothing dark or brutal in dealing with this matter as a realist adult who sees the truth.

Eva Tóthová
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

i would give you all my thumbs up Elli Tiuku... DS is a genetic MISTAKE. It is fault on DNA. If you decide to take this burden as a blessing from god to strenghten you up, it's up to you (there are people crucifixing themselves to manifest their faith, so your way is definitely more peacefull and nicer). But it is your decision and you are the one who will live with it(and raising it :D ). Just as you wouldn't like to be judged by others for deciding being a martyr, don't judge others yourself, for choosing other way of dealing with this problem. I would abort a child if diagnosed with possibility of DS without blinking of an eye. of course i would be sad and whatever, but i would know, that my next child, if it would be healthy, would become independent person that would do well in life(and don't start with c**p abour how much DS kids can chieve, because statistics speak otherwise- there are spectacular individuals, but most of these kids has soooo many defects)

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Tina Fusco
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I would definitely abort. I've spent years taking care of the elderly, injured, dying, ill, and infants in my family. Caretaking is the hardest job there is. I'm also disabled myself, high iq but still have a learning disability. I simply do not have the strength or resources to care for someone who is disabled. In fact, I have decided not to have children at all so I don't pass on the family history of alcoholism and mental illness. If someone wants to have a disabled child, then they should. If people know they can't handle it, they should be allowed to abort. simple. no one has a right to life.

Ben Smith
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No one has a right to life??? Are you insane? It's only a guaranteed right in the founding document of America.

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Pragya Fating
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't know why would people think just giving a kid existence is such a chivalric thing to do. Life doesn't matter a dime if it's not productive ND enjoyable. I m not saying this for down's in particular. Just talking about life in general. If the kid can have a life with it, it's good. But so many lives are wasted like this. Don't think about what you can do for the child, instead think can he have a life that he can like ND would want to live. Nobody can be there for anyone all the time. Besides nobody wants to be a burden or a cause of pain to the people they love.

Monilip
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well, sorry for comparation, but Hitler though the same. He though "Jews and Slaws are worse people, they should not reproduce, they should be killed". I say - noone has right to to tell one "Your life is not worthy". To end someone's life, except for self-defense (for example if mother's life is in danger because of pregnancy, or if someone attacts you, at defense war, etc)

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frank0ys
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

...It's up to parents if they can or cannot raise the child afflicted with Down syndrome. What matters is that they love the child and raise it with proper care, love, kindness and courage. We can all talk all day if terminating a child tested positive with Down syndrome is ethical or not. But at the end of the day, it's up to the would-be-parents to choose if they can handle caring for the child.

Deanne Eldred
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm pregnant now, and had a genetic screening done that tests for 13 different genetic disorders and syndromes, down syndrome being one of them. Fortunately, the results showed that my baby is at low risk for all of them, but I had the testing done because I don't know much about genetic disorders, many of the ones they screened for, I've never even heard of before. If the screening had said we were at risk for one of them I would have had a lot of reading and research to do so that I could provide the best chance for my child. Personally, I feel like that's a parent's job, regardless of a child's abilities, or disabilities, it is a parent's job to equip them as best we can so they can be the best person they can be.

Kjorn
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have no doubt the parent love their kids even if they are handicapped. but don't try to tell people that having a kid who have any kind of disability (even slighty) it's better than having a kid who have nothing at all. Let's just be honest with that.

Jennifer Lee
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What's sad is that American women are stupid and brainwashed into thinking that they cannot make the compassionate decision to avoid bringing someone who is doomed to a life of suffering into the world. Maybe mothers of Down Syndrome children don't want to lose their sainthood status as it becomes common knowledge that they could have possibly prevented their child's life of misery in the first place.

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The fact that we pay out of pocket for healthcare should make every parent think twice about deciding to have a special needs child. Love doesn't pay the bills.

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Katinka Min
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sometimes, there is no Right and Wrong. Yes, Downies birng joy and happiness just like all other children, and aborting a baby because it is handicapped is euthanasia. But caring for a handicapped child means hard work till the very last of your days. Every day. Not everybody can carry that kind of burden. I honestly have no idea what my decision would be in such a case.

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Abortion prevents euthanasia. Babies cannot be aborted. You're mislabeling fetal tissue. No babies are ever involved in abortion.

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Jennifer .S
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's not really eradicating downs syndrome, more people are just having abortions. It's still occurring in babies

Monilip
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

*Linda Gulley - are you kidding me? Down Syndrome is random genetic disorder, you cannot "pass it on". Most people with Down Syndrome are infertile anywahy.

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Anja Hübel
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well Down Syndrome is not a disease but a genetic difference that is usually not hereditary. Therefore Iceland cannot "eradicate" the syndrome. My son with Down Syndrome is low functioning but he enjoys life and is loved by all who know him. People who are not loved are the ones who suffer, not people like my son.

Lalita
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

People like your son could be in a situation of not being loved by unprepared parents.

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manowce
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

your child being sick is "the best thing that happened to you"? seriously?

Linda Coleman
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

to say that Iceland has eradicated downs syndrome is misleading. they have not cured the problem, only eliminated the birth of these children. the syndrome still exists.

Mirabilis Mirificaret
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Nobody can eliminate Down syndrome. They eliminate children with Down syndrome. And it makes a difference.

Deserie Sanders
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

To eradicate a disease is to either cure it or develop a vaccine against it, it's not to kill everyone who can "potentially" have it. This isn't healthcare, it's deciding whose life is worth it and whose isn't. Alot of people w/down syndrome lead full and active lives, yes some would argue that not all do and there's a whole spectrum, etc. And sure while I get that there is no way to know which end the child will end up being on. Your basing the decision of the worst case scenario and stigma provided by the doctor whose test only determines that the child may "potentially" have it not which end of the spectrum the child will fall on or even if it's 100% positive that he/she will have it. Test have been wrong before. I used to be in between don't get me wrong, I didn't really like the idea of abortion but understood it in certain scenarios...rape, disabilities like this, where the mother's like was at risk, etc. But then I found out exactly how it's done which is horrifying by the way,

Mindy Keys
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I personally have never become pregnant. I have avoided it very carefully and, fortunately, never even had a worry of being pregnant. That is my choice. I find it disingenuous that people are judging others based upon what they choose to do with their own reproduction. Do I think it's sad and awful that people abort babies? Yes. Do I find it even more sad and awful when they choose to do so based upon a genetic abnormality (sorry, not sure what to call it here) ? Absolutely. It's horrific to me. That said, it's not my business. Abortion is legal. Specific abortion based upon genetic testing is legal. A lot of things I find distasteful are legal, and we simply cannot legislate morality. That is a very slippery slope - in both directions.

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Babies cannot be aborted. They are born. Abortion removes unwanted fetal tissue from a woman's uterus. Using the wrong words causes confusion, often intentional.

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Jef Bateman
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I am interested in what is going to happen when we can fix genetic mutations and other anomalies using CRISPR, zinc finger nucleases, or whatever. There will probably be a lot less neurological diversity in the future.

Full Name
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

CRISPR terrifies me to no end. Mankind has a bit of an inflated idea of how important it is. We can affect mother earth but to think we can actually hurt it fundamentally is ridiculous. Same with all the antibiotics that are creating super bugs. Mother nature will let us know where we stand, and this CRISPR stuff I think gets us one step closer. She is going to look at all this stuff and go "You think you are in control? That's so cute *pats humans on the head and then takes us out with a pathogen*".

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Lynn McDonald
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a DS daughter. She has had many difficulties but I never considered her a burden!! I had to grow after she was born. She taught me more about unconditional love, patience, forgiveness, compassion, and honesty than anyone or anything in this world could have. Her siblings learned about these things and protected her fiercely from any wayward comments or actions. I made the most difficult decision of my life when I found a positive group home for my daughter in her adult years. She is very happy there and feels her "independence". She is absolutely still part of our family, but she will not have to suffer being left alone after I die. In my opinion, terminating a pregnancy due to the discovery of DS is throwing away a gift of great worth. Sure, raising a child with any disability is more "work", but the rewards are beyond what can be easily defined. It wasn't what I expected my life to be...it was well-worth the extra effort.

Monilip
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well, that's what would say father of two-years old, after killing his child and his wife. "My choice, my house, my family, not yours. Enough said".

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RaroaRaroa
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Terminating the existence of everyone with an illness (not sure that's the right word) is not the same as eradicating it. Eradication is done with something like vaccinations that ensure no one ever gets polio again. They are not stopping anyone from having Downs again. What Iceland is doing is closer to the equivalent of killing everyone with polio and going "there, we've eradicated polio". Although in that case it might be effective to stop the spread. Downs Syndrome isn't contagious and , as far as I know, not inherited. So it is completely random and therefore can not be eradicated, just those with it can be. Saying it's up to the mums is not really true either. In a society where no one else has a child like that, it must be very hard to imagine bringing your own into it.

CozaEVE
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My sister has Downs syndrome. I can't imagine a world without her. I can't see why anybody wouldn't want to have someone like her in the world. She lights up the room when she comes and most of the time she is wearing a wonderful smile. I love her who couldn't?

rai mei
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

In the Philippines, from my knowledge, children borne with DS to those with Chinese blood consider them lucky. I have seen many Phil-Chinese families take care of their children with DS as they believe their business will prosper due to that child with DS. For me, having a child with DS or terminating the fetus really depends on the decision of the parents, the lifestyle they live, the future that they want and the mindset the parents have. Personally, I won't mind having one as long as my will remains positive all throughout my life and based on the way how Phil-Chinese families raise their children with DS I believe these children with DS won't hinder my prosperity for the future.

Bengt
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's not worth it. It's kinder. Etc etc... Being a former carer of 17 years I can say that ALL the downs I've met have been the happiest people I've known. It's your societies that's handicapped, not them! Ours fledge the nest at the same age as "normal" kids and get professional help in their own home. Some in communal living with carers working in the apartment. Some in their own flat with help available only when they want or need it. They are so house proud and love to invite their parents over for coffee at the weekend. Not worth it and kinder to whom?

arahana02
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Most of the folks with DS I've met have been high functioning--able to hold down a job and handle their own basic care needs. And most of them have been very pleasant people. But it's dishonest to ONLY talk about those high functioning individuals when the fact is that people with DS can also be lower functioning or severely impaired, and are NOT always angelic happy people. We had a DS student in our class in 5th grade--a special project they tried that year of trying to mainstream special needs kids into regular classrooms. Patty was the size of a large full-grown adult, with the intellect and emotional development of possibly a 3 year old. When she got frustrated or upset--which was every day--she would lash out physically, pushing and hitting. We were all terrified of her. Imagine spending every day of your life trying to handle that, as some parents must do. No. Not for me.

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Wanda Queen
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think someone sure is trying to stir the s**t pot here at BP, this morning. I think I have enough of a vitriolic, contentious social media experience on Facebook. I think I come here to relax and have fun. And mostly, I think I could've done without this.

Meowton Mewsk
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The original post of the man hugging the baby (and the subsequent responses) was on reddit and had absolutely nothing to do with Iceland or the disappearance of individuals being born with downs.

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Lisa Shaw
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is selective breeding, nothing more, nothing less and it is disgraceful! Choosing what children to have like they are set up in a toy store with their descriptions of what they can and cannot do, clearly written on the package.

Cassandra
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The mother feels bad she had her baby stabbed -through- his leg (!) and she still doesn't know if she would have aborted him if he had turned out to be down syndrome?? Does she realise that involves much more violence than the stabbing??

Marion Friedl
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

In Germany we have about the same problems, mothers who give birth to their child with Down Syndrome (which´s not even correct anymore, it´s called Trisomia 21 now) gotta justify for not having "removed" the embryo as soon as it was clear the baby HAS it, WHY??? Those children can grow up like any other child, lately I even saw a docu about a young man who´s been born with Trisomia 21 and studied architecture, has an own office now, and in some German towns young people with that syndrome run hotels or restaurants, with the right support they people with "Down Syndrome" can become anything in their lives, they may have their health problems with the back etc., but they can lead a full and happy life!!!

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They don't grow up like any other child. They require time and money that many people do not have.

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manowce
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

seriously? your kid being sick is "the best thing that happened to you"? who is gonna believe that c**p? of course those kids are not worse than other kids and they deserve love and support, but I will not believe that there's even one parent who would prefer their child being sick!

Dale Lambers
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Not sure the word eliminated is the correct term to use here. Suppressed, or expunged might be better. The genes are still there and still trying to express themselves.

Donna Fernstrom
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's a genetic mutation that occurs spontaneously. It's very rare for it to be passed down from a parent. So the genes actually are NOT there, since they aren't allowing fetuses with them to come to term. It's not substantially different from natural miscarriage.

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Lurchie
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The way this story is presented is misleading. Downs syndrome in Iceland hasn't been eliminated. That suggests that the disorder is being prevented. There would still be the same number of children born with DS as anywhere else . . . IF they were allowed to come to term.

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

But they never exist. There's a lot of confusion with the use of "baby" and "child." The testing predicts Downs Syndrome. By eliminating the fetal tissue, a baby is prevented from ever existing. A baby is something that has been born. Abortion never involves babies.

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Jo Chrisco
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I had a brother and sister with Downs. Doctors present when each were born told my parents to put them in an institution. Thank God, my parents ignored these "doctors". That was the 50's and 60's. Now, I know and accept that our spirits have been sent here to learn and people like my brother and sister are sent as teachers. I feel so sorry for a world that eliminates what has been deemed "imperfect".

Lalita
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You are wrong. Not everybody will abort babies with genetic defects. But having the chance to do it if you cannot handle it is the way to go.

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Emily Keryk
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I work with special needs people and know so many people with Downs that are like you and I, only distinguishable by the facial features. Having Downs does not mean the child will be severely disabled.

KT Trondsen
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think everyone should mind their own business. It is a personal choice that only the parents can make, and no one else!

Lesley Martinez
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

At 18 my first pregnancy tested positive for DS. The father admitted he could not handle that. So facing a DS child alone at 18 I was terrified but I was committed. When preparing for the more invasive test learned my child had died. On th eve of the D.E. ( fancy medical term for abortion to me ) God was gracious enough to allow me to go into labor. At 18 I gave birth to a dead DS child. One of the worst feelings in the world even to this day, but now it is one of the best gifts God ever gave me. He knew I would do it but it would have ruined my young life as well. A year later I gave birth to a beautiful healthy perfect boy. Amateo will always be with me in my heart and soul and can honestly say I'm glad he isn't in this ugly world but in a perfect one. To each their own. I have no right to judge anyone but myself.

Diane Rodríguez
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I was 37 when I got pregnant of my second child. I went to the doctor and he told me he didn’t like to assist women of my age because at this point of the life women had been smoking and drinking too much and that it was a high probability that my child was born with SD and that I needed to make that stupid test. I decided to find another doctor and didn’t do any test at all. My baby girl was born perfectly fine with any SD. I am still so upset with that doctor.

lunanoir69
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

To me, this is similar to wanting to find a "cure" for Autism Spectrum Disorder. I'm Asperger's, as well as most of my family and many of my friends. I am my nephew's caregiver because he is more severely affected by it, and because he was abused and neglected because no one knew how to deal with him. I would never want to cure myself, but I would love a cure for my nephew. Deciding to abort when the child will have a possibly disabling or excruciatingly painful disease isn't an easy decision, it's intensely personal. Our society seems to forget that people with disabilities have just as much to offer our world as anyone else, and that is the biggest problem here!

Eli Sigurðar
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Iceland has a population of 335;000 and pregnancies are around 4000 annually. Given the fact that Down syndrome occurs in approximately one pregnancy in 700; there are about six to seven fetuses diagnosed thus every year. NOT all of them are terminated and those very few people who do choose to end the pregnancy have various reasons for their decision. The ill-grounded condemnation Icelanders have witnessed from various sources in the USA are regrettable, to say the least, and I strongly object to us being painted as heartless monsters who don’t recognise the cuteness of some individuals’ various relatives. It is never easy to decide to have an abortion, and other people’s holier-than-thou attitude is annoying. I suggest the American people take care of ALL their children before getting their noses out of joint over other peoples’ childcare. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/birthdefects/downsyndrome/data.html

Caoimhe Delahunty
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My 9 year old brother has Down's Syndrome. He runs around, loves to play soccer, has loads of friends, is one of three of the most popular kids in the school ( all of whom have some sort of disability/ physical disadvantage) can go to the bathroom on his own, likes cats, dogs and wild birds, loves counting, can talk well, his speech is coming on every day and is very caring. My parents and I and the whole of my family love him dearly. He can be a pain sometimes but so can everyone. I would never abort if my unborn child had Down's Syndrome.

Robert Hoff
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I am pro life. I put 99% of any pregnancy decisions with the mother. If there is a married father involved then maybe he has a voice, but a minority voice. I do think down children and people are the cutest and happiest people on earth. I recognize down children are special and most likely require more help and cost for their care.

Robert Hoff
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sorry, on my above post....I meant to say I am pro choice (as you may have thought by reading the entire post)

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Katherine Head
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My sister has DS. She is 52 & I am 43. I now care for her as birth our parents have passed. I knew even as a young child that if anything happened to our parents I would care for her. I would not have it anyway and could not put her into care. Society should be judged on the way they treat the most vulnerable. I do not know what I would do if I had the test and it was positive. Please remember DS has a wide spectrum of abilities & disabilities, some can have a completely 'normal' life, get married, drive, work etc. Others need to be cared for their whole live. Mandy is somewhere in the middle. If asked the parents of children with DS, especially nowadays the majority would say that having a child with DS although challenging is a wonderful thing, it enriches and makes people more open and accepting of others. In a society which seems at the moment to be more and more self centred maybe we need those people that show us that loving and caring despite hardships is a wonderful thing.

DopethronePunkUK
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Very difficult issue, as someone who hasn't got anyone with Downs to me i can't have much of a say except i do believe it is the mothers choice whether to terminate or not, that goes without saying. What if the family has other children?, does the care for the disabled child come at the detriment of the other children?, are the parents cut out to have this type of responsibility?, not everyone can offer the care the disabled child would need. From a purely human point of view everyone deserves a chance at life regardless of disabilities, i'm not a parent myself but this is one difficult subject, really hard to give a valid, definitive answer, very sad and difficult.

Jim Hubbard
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That's like saying in 1944 that almost all Jews have been eliminated from Germany. Killing babies with challenges is NOT the same as eliminating the cause of those challenges in the first place.

Johanna Zamora
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sit through a medical ethics course. While people howl about a woman's right to choose, no one blinks at the lack of mental health counseling that should be closely associated with plastic surgery. People tend to tight eugenics with personal choice together it is very different. (You could get a degree in Eugenics as late as the 1970's - scary, it's only gone now thanks to the one guy who took it to the nth degree and shut up all the progressive notions about culling people out of the herd.)

Aunt Messy
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Several long term studies have shown that the dominant emotion women feel after they get abortions is relief. It's a gestation slaver lie that women "regret" their abortions. Women do not do this on a whim. They know what they want. We are adults making adult decisions and no one has the right to second guess that. Ever.

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Harry L Gillen Jr
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a 52yo brother with Down Syndrome and I cried when I read how many children are being aborted do to this disorder. I agree with a woman's right to abortion but I couldn't imagine my life without my brother in it. He was given 6 months to live after his birth do to cva's Dr's said he would never be able to care for himself and never be able to walk or talk. 52 years later and about 100 Special Olympic medals earned he is doing great walks and talks (way too much!) and is loved by our entire family. He is the brightest star in our family he is my best friend and I love him more than anything in life.

Deborah Watson Steele
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And what would you baby killers do if you birthed what you thought was a normal child who then became disabled? Give them up for adoption? Throw them off a bridge?

Morgan Morgan
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

An extremely personal decision. But there is no doubt that having a child with Downs Syndrome will rob any other child in the family of the time and attention they would otherwise have with a parent. There is also no doubt that not everyone is up to the life long challenges of caring for child that comes with a child with Downs Syndrome. In some cases, it comes down to surrendering one life for another. I don't know if it's fair to ask anyone to do that, or to criticize those who choose not to. To choose one's own life for a potential life that has yet to be born, is not selfish; it is human. IMO.

Virginia Smith
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a genetic disability. I'm in a wheelchair and every day it progresses. I volunteer and work as a substitute teacher, I write and there is not in the aspect that my disability does not affect. It is very hard and often humiliating.I would not doom my children to friedreich's ataxia.

Carolyn Barker
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Believe it or not there will come a time when it will cost so much to treat children, teens and adults who were born healthy that public opinion will eventually be swayed into accepting that abnormal fetuses must be aborted. The same will apply to the other end of the life cycle. The health budget will be withdrawn from older citizens and redirected to those who will potentially have longer to live with a better quality of life outcome. Sounds harsh, but at the end of the day it's always money behinds government decisions.

Peter Korsten
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

We have a child with high-functioning autism. Compared to the autistic children that can't even speak, he's so much more capable. He'll -probably- be able to live independently. But my goodness, it's hard at times. It wears you down. So the prospect of having a child with a much worse impact on your lives, that will probably die around the age of 40, and that will have serious health issues throughout life... I can see why not everybody is able to inflict that on themselves, and on the child.

Greg Grimer
Community Member
5 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I love it when people say they love their children "unconditionally" and "no matter what", but when faced with some possible hardship they murder them in the womb because the conditions were not ideal. Liberals are such dishonest and selfish pigs.

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Jeannette Davis
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

In what mind do they think they have eradicated Downs... It will continue to present itself to any population. All they are doing is killing those children who will be born with it... Now when they come back and say that there are no more pregnancies presenting with Down, THEN they can make this assertion... for now it just plain selfish and murder. And do they believe that everyone thinks that the decision to willingly terminate is at close to 100% in their country? I personally don't believe that for a minute. Which makes their assertion all that scarier.

Robin McIntosh
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The test isn't just for Downs Syndrome. My sister had the test and it came back positive and had further testing. Her daughter was born with her intestines on the outside. Then my sister-in-law didn't have the test and she delivered a pre term baby without a brain. The test would have told her that. My grandsons mom just didn't have it. But we knew something was wrong. Genetic testing showed he is missing gene 13-11-2. She blamed it on my son but it's related to spina bifida. She had spina bifida.

Donna Fernstrom
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Terminate -- it's a potential person, not a person. Miscarriages are super common. Not every pregnancy has to end in a child, and many of them don't. The goal should be a healthy child, not just whatever fate and nature happen to produce. We need to stop romanticizing disabilities. They should be prevented when they can, and cured when they cannot be prevented. No one is better off having a disability than they would be not having one.

Lalita
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's completely reasonable. Parents might be not prepared emotionally or economically to support a child with a genetic disorder, the same way they could not be prepared to have a perfectly healthy child.

Vincent Jay
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

When I clicked on the headline, I expected some sort of announcement like "Polio has been eradicated." In other words, I expected that some sort of medical breakthrough had occurred. What I read is more akin to a moslem praising the Jews for eradicating themselves through voluntary abortions. It doesn't feel right.

Jeannette Davis
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I agree with you Vincent, I thought they have found a way to stop Down.... but, alas... Now like you expecting a medical breakthrough and what we have here is nothing more than mental manipulation of the vulnerable mental state of these families to be. To try and call it eugenics is ridiculous.

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Liesl Jager
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

“My understanding is that we have basically eradicated, almost, Down syndrome from our society,” says geneticist Kari Stefansson. If you read and listen to this sentence, the implication is that "we" have eradicated THE PEOPLE suffering from Down Syndrome in "our" society. The syndrome itself has not been eradicated at all. This comes down eerily to eugenics. This is truely heartbreaking.

Pamela Storer
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They haven't "eradicated" Downs Syndrome, otherwise known as Trisomy - 21. No-one knows what causes non-disjunction at meiosis which leads to the condition. All they've done is eradicate babies because they dont like the look of them. Most Downs is what is called Mosaic. It' doesn't manifest in all cells. Some Downs people are very high functioning. Every single Downs child I ever cared for - and it was a few - was incredibly loving, affectionate, gentle and humerous. They can worry as they dont know their own strength and dont have the built in reserve we have - they dont know not to hug too hard. But they are special people, and deserve a chance at life. I'm sorry and frankly horrified to read this. Iceland just went down in my estimation.

Aunt Messy
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And some are NOT high functioning and will need to be bathed, diapered, and fed like babies for their entire lives. Do YOU want to explain to a grown man with an adult libido but the mental age of two that they shouldn't masturbate in public? Do YOU want to deal with an adult woman with a mental age of three who throws a tantrum, kicking and screaming and biting? ... People look at Down's Syndrome kids and adults that are in Special Olympics posters and so on, and they never stop to think that these people are the outliers. They're RARE in the world of Down's. ..... The saddest human being I've ever met was a man with Down's Syndrome who had a job at a grocery store. He was very high functioning....just high functioning enough to understand that he would never have a normal life.

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Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have mixed feelings about this...every termination is a beautiful child who will never see their own mothers face...and there's nothing wrong with Down syndrome

Paul Garlick
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Except not every pregnancy is "a beautiful child who will never see their own Mother's face", is it? Not every pregnancy is carried to term, some miscarry, some are still births.

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Maggie Collins
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is a private decision for the mother or the mother and father. Especially important if you are a single mom. I know who I am and what I am capable of as do most adults. People must make this decision of their own volition knowing what they are capable of. We are not talking about a few months but of decades of completley giving yourself and your life up to help someone else whom you love. I cannot imagine making that decision. God help anyone who must.

Erisa Desu
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

in modern day, we see people with down syndrome to advance in society, actors, artists and even professors. Down syndrome has many levels, but modern science has found ways for to educate these kids and to advance their skills. I don't judge them for choosing not to have children with down syndrome, but I have to say that even those kids can now have a better life. I hope more people will realise that down syndrome is not something that you can't handle with effort and hard work. But I speak without having any children of my own.

Master Markus
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well... That's good then, isn't it? Not everyone with Down Syndrome has it really bad, but having less of a chance of being born with it at all sounds like a fantastic result of abortions. We could eradicate all sorts of genetic-caused suffering!

Ja Legge
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Wow. The photo made me cry with joy. He has so much love for that baby. Precious!!!

Sojourner
Community Member
1 month ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's nothing wrong with being born with Down's. It results from an extra chromosome in nondisjunction, so the parents can't be blamed for a faulty egg. Or sperm.

Elaine Marten
Community Member
1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I am pro life, so I am wondering what the difference is to abort a downs syndrome baby and a 'normal' healthy baby...abortion is abortion, it still kills. If it's so wrong by many opinions, to abort a downs baby, why is it ok to abort a normal pregnancy? And if its 'so right' to have abortions available, why is it even questioned if someone is having a downs baby and they abort it..double standard to me

missing B
Community Member
5 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My husband and I recently ended our T21 pregnancy and it was the most heart wrenching decision I have made. I work with T21 kids, and never imagined ending a DS pregnancy, and even imagined that it wouldn't be a big issue if we had a T21 baby, but once it became our reality, my view changed. I would have had the baby had my husband wanted, but he firmly supported termination. It scared me to think that he wouldn't be 100% supportive if our child had major health issues and countless therapies. Given my experience with T21, I also realize that life for the child, parent, and family can be difficult. I suppose it was a combination of those reasons that led us to termination. I wish I could say that I am confident in our decision, but I'm not and think about how I could be looking forward to his birth. I now understand why a person would end a T21 pregnancy but can also understand how a mother could never do that. Once you have walked in these shoes, your opinion can quickly change.

Liviu Mihoc
Community Member
5 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This entire debate is pointless. In the western world abortion if absolutely healthy foetuses is LEGAL since decades and noone has any ethical problems with it. So then what: ok to abort perfect healthy foetuses just because they don't fit into your life plan but genocide if you decide to abort a foetus that has an incurable & severely limiting genetic disease!?

Lauren Puckett
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I am not against abortion. I am very much pro choice (your body, your decision, I could never). So the really sad part about all of this, these genetic tests they perform are not 100% accurate. They are not even 75% accurate. So for those of you saying you will abort if you get a positive test, just know you are probably aborting a perfectly healthy fetus that probably does not have a chromosomal abnormality. Oh and something else to take into account, the more abortions you have the less likely you are to go on to have a successful pregnancy.

Linda Keegan
Community Member
6 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Everyone loves young Down’s, but what happens when they are 50 and Mum is too old to look after them, who thinks they are cute then - no one!

Hannah Howard
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have Crohns, which is potentially genetic, so I have made the decision to not have children. We are f*****g with evolution and letting the bad and good genes stay?! We can look after everyone, but should we?

Carol McManus
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Our 20 year old son has Down Syndrome. He's made me, my husband, and my other son better human beings. I thank God that I was lucky enough to be chosen to be his mother.

Bored-Panda4Communism
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Didn't work! instead they imported all these inbreed refugees with an iq lower than Down syndrome

Phyllis Ramos
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I had a blood test to check if my daughter would have down syndrome .the blood work showed a chance she might. Did a high resolution ultrasound to look for detailed signs thankfully she did not. But My husband and I were scared but we decided if she did we would deal with it and make her life wonderful. But during the test time it is a baby a little person I feel it's too late to abort I would feel like a murderer. What about Autisim you usually don't know until child is about 3 and there is so many levels of Autisim. If they could test for it in utiro and offered same thing would you ? Without knowing your baby could be a autistic high functioning and could live a normal life with social coaching . Being different should not be a death sentence that goes for all disability's mental physical and ect .

Spring Stroud Moore
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You're right we can't make decisions for other people and it's her body. Just makes me sad that just because your babies not perfect you don't love it. I have five children and other didn't do the test on any of them. I would love them regardless of any problems they had. If I had to dedicate my life to caring for them I would. My brother has CP and I couldn't imagine life without him! He is an awesome person who babysits my kids, works and helps pay bills. If my parents would have chosen to rid the pregnancy they would have killed a person with tons of potential. Just because they have a genetic default doesn't mean they will be helpless. My brother is my kids favorite uncle and gave my parents joy all through life!

John Hinnenkamp
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Icelandic Women...way to take Hitler's final solution one step further! genetic cleansing! https://www.facebook.com/Ashton/videos/10154756853347820/

Rosie Clancy
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think it is up to the individual. I think they have a a hard enough time making that decision. How many of the condemners have had to look after a severely disabled person for years? I couldn't do it again. Walk in someones shoes BEFORE you judge them.

CounterPunch
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

" “My understanding is that we have basically eradicated, almost, Down syndrome from our society,” geneticist Kari Stefansson told CBS." By simply KILLING everyone that is at risk of having it... that IS Eugenics at it's Worst... deal with it...

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Preventing is not killing. No one is or has been killed. You're confusing your emotions with facts.

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TC
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I cannot judge anybody for this. I would not like to be in the situation to take a decision.

Tony Lobosco
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sounds like the first step in creating a Master Race. Herr Adolph would applaud the effort.

Michael Armstrong
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Here's a question: Would you like to be a Downs person? Didn't think so.

Donna Fernstrom
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's nothing moral about deliberately bringing a fetus with serious disabilities to term, knowing that baby will experience substantially more misery, hardship, and medical issues in their life than someone without those disabilities. Life isn't everything. Quality matters. It's moral to bring healthy children into the world, and choose not to bring unhealthy ones into the world. Peoples' quibbling over this is based in religion and their perception of abortion, and nothing else. There's no universal morality.

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Irene Walton
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I myself would not want a DS baby and would terminate the pregnancy with no second thought

Full Name
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's a zero sum game, from a certain point of view. If you decide you want 2 children and you already have one, then having a DS child now means you won't be having another child in the future. If you don't have the DS child now, then you will have another in the future. Either way you are deciding how many and when to conceive so "when does life begin" arguments aside, it's a zero sum game so goes morality even enter into it?

Raven Mystique
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a 19yr old son, with Severe Autism. I had the prenatal screening done, for both of my sons. I had the screening; NOT to choose to abort either of my Children but rather, to be prepared, should the screening have come back Positive; so I could research & be as best prepared as I could, for when my sons was born! I have Infertility & was told @ the age of 16, that I would NEVER, EVER be able to conceive a child on my own! The honor of being blessed to be thes 2 Angels Mother, I can't put into words! BELIEVE ME, the gifts Your child gives You; DISABILITY or not; One can't possibly fathom, @ birth! I couldn't possibly imagine LIFE, Without either of my 2 VERY, unique incredible sons & DOn'T EVER listen to ANYONE, but Your Heart! Trust that You've GOT THIS! Your Child, ALWAYS will FAR EXCEED anything a 'so-called expert" will say @ Birth! The Gifts Your Special Child will Give You & The World, fall nothing short of a MIRACLE & the True Meaning of UNCONDITIONAL LOVE!

Raven Mystique
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

With my above answer, I do want to add, I have to agree with every answer below! I was the product of a teenage Mother, who did NOT want me & was her verbal, emotinal & phsycial punching bag; hating me because everytime she looked @ me, she blamed me 'for stealing her life" as she was forced to marry my father or the family would bear the shame of an unwed teenage mother, back in the 60s. But, I do have to agree, it's NOBODY's choice, but the Mother/Parents! Far Better, to have a loving, supportive home & parents that want this child, than resentfully raising an unwanted child because of fear of 'Societal Judgement' or worse!!!

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Nia Loves Art
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There needs to be more public awareness of the fact that many people with Down Syndrome are fairly high functioning, as well as better social support for people with disabilities. If that were the case there would be less of these abortions.

Jenn Cunningham
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I had both my pregnancies tested. If I had ever had a diagnosis for it and I trusted the reliability of results (2nd opinion and tests etc.) I would have aborted that in a heartbeat. What a horrible thing, to promote retardation as a "good thing" in society!

DeadStillPretty
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Articles like these are heartbreaking to me. As someone with a neurological condition, I'd have been one of those winnowed out. Truly, it's the internet debating whether you have the right to your very existence. It's surreal and maddening, also, viewing comments under articles like these also (I don't mean here, more on facebook and such. They could give Hitler a run for his money)

Virgil Blue
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Even if most people with downs are very nice people it's still a disorder that can severely limit them and that completely turns their lives and the lives of their families upside down forever. So I say give people the choice now it is available and don't judge them poorly if they want a "regular " life.

Lyn Worrall
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Really disappointed with this page spreading the iceland lie. The war on women's reproductive rights is being faught worldwide, we are fighting in ireland to change our laws abs the antichoice campaign are using this lie to try to continue a law that allows for a 14yr sentence for anyone who has or helps someone have an abortion. Please do some research before sharing these types of stories. Thanks for reading

Daesai Sereiphiel
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's a personal choice, for sure. Is there any research to show that down syndrome is "bad"? Societal standards don't mean much because they're always being changed and usually don't have a basis in science/reason. Is DS really bad? What if its an essential part of our evolution? Do we really understand the DS gene and what its purpose is in the greater genome? I don't think we have enough information to really judge whether one gene or another deserves preference. Honestly, we all have the DS gene. It's just a matter of training our body to keep it off or to allow it to continue turning on randomly. There's a lot of "junk" DNA in our body. DNA that we do not understand the purpose of. I don't think it's a good idea to "phase" DS genes out until we fully understand the human genome.

BouncyFrog
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Do you even know what DS is? Cause you are wrong on so many levels! 1) DS is a mistake that happens while separating chromosomes during meiosis. It is therefore absolutely and undeniably 'bad'. 2) Societal standards have nothing to do with deciding if DS is bad if they can't successfully reproduce and raise children themselves (kinda the purpose of life). 3) DS can't be an essential part of evolution because the point of evolution is survival and these people can't survive on their own. 4) DS isn't passed down genetically, so there is no DS gene at all. And a non-existing gene doesn't have a role in the greater picture. NOBODY has a DS gene, and even if we did you would never be able to 'train' your body to turn it on or off. 5) 'Junk' DNA was a term coined to label DNA that did not encode proteins and therefore didn't have a visible function. It has long been discovered that this DNA does have a vital function for the human body. So we pretty much do understand the full human genome

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Deb Orah
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Whatever disability a genetic test might show up in an unborn child, it is the mother's choice to terminate or not, in the same way as she has the right to terminate any child she does not want. I have only two children from 5 pregnancies. I have been there and been offered the choice to abort a child who ended up being stillborn. Obviously I didn't abort because I wanted to give my child a chance at life. But I was young and didn't even consider the consequences if my daughter had been born with a disability. Both my existing kids have conditions inherited from their father and my younger son has Asperger's. So what that he's high functioning compared to someone with DS? He's not happy with his life and often asks why was he born? I think having children is intrinsically a very selfish act and if you're prepared to bring a child into the world, you have to be prepared to cope with all the positives and negatives of parenthood, because once you have kids that's it. No going back.

CounterPunch
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

So you advocate for Eugenics... Hitler would be proud... Since when does "disability" Invalidate a Human being's Right to LIVE?..

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Laurie Veneklasen
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The initial victims of the Nazi genocide were also handicapped people completely of their parents volition. Please explain the difference!

Rhonie Ventura
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's nobody's business really. Especially when they don't give an F about what others think. Instead of lambasting them, why not pledge to adopt the child, to you know, ease your moral senses. Don't get me wrong a life is a life, but in these situations, Its not up to any one else but the parents.

Greg Grimer
Community Member
5 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If that is true then, logically, is it not up to the future adoptive parents? Should a person be allowed to abort if adoptive parents have already agreed to bring the child up. Does avoiding the inconvenience of 5 months of being pregnant give a woman the moral right to murder her child and deny it the right to live with adoptive parents who love that child? Would you support making abortion illegal in the case where adoptive parents were pre-screened and ready to adopt a child? The parent is not the birth giver but the person taking on the next 20 to 50 years of responsibility. Their rights should superseed the mother, correct?

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Wayne Franklin
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm not sure as to the objective of this article. Are you condemning Iceland or pointing them out as a goal-oriented society that tries to cap medical costs by preventing disease?

Alexandr Valiulin
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is the Future with big first symbol. It's the Future where you can choose good life for you childs, without gene diseases, with good heredity and potential. Leave in past this useless "born every thing that will get out from your womb", adequate people want give good thing to children.

Sašo Muc
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My god, yes it's nice to see some stories of parents that teach their child to cook and basic care for them self, but what you don't see is trauma of everyone that is not so lucky. The it has more severe cases and less so. One patient came to hospital on 1- 2 month basis because she can't control her movements or is violent, and she breaks her bones sometimes legs sometimes hands... And none will say she is happy like that. Being in chair, and be burden to parents. You cud sometime see the exhaustion. Yes there are also young ones that parents bring them in in their hands, but man when they grow up if it's bad, i mean please at least try again. I know you love your child no matter what, but your life is over and not in parenting way.

Dieter Zerressen
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

We're not raising pets, we're raising future human beings who need to be able to function, independently, in a more and more complex society. Parents are free to choose what to do but if you make a choice that you know will cost taxpayers and society hundreds of thousands of dollars then you are on your own. Amazing how the right wing christians will always lie to try to make a point because they have no legitimate point to make.

Maureen Howard
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Not every person wants to, or is capable of caring for a DS kid. I think many that keep DS children do so out of guilt of what others would say! I would not. I do not want todo that for the rest of my life. I could not and would not burden society or anyone else with such a child. I am not going to be a martyr so that others can say I am so wonderful for caring for my kid that will never care for thenself, live by themself, or even fall in love. Very few have sucessful lives.

John Laidlaw
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Personally, I would not consider terminating a pregnancy simply due to risk of Down's Syndrome. None of our three are Downsies, though I do know a few - and know that )a thee is a huge variation in severity of symptoms, and b) a wide variation in how well they can function later in life - with some even able to hold jobs, and feel worthwhile. I am also fairly certain my wife is of the same way of thinking. However, I would not condemn those who do so choose - for one thing, I'm not the person putting up time, case, and effort in raising that child. I am concerned, though, about the implications of ethnic cleansing involved in such actions, and the assumptions about the value of a life - even in such a climate as Iceland's.

Gertrud Christensen
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Do your research, Sally - that is a really bad article; manipulative and borderline slanderous. Fake news. https://www.abortionrightscampaign.ie/2017/11/28/lets-talk-about-iceland/

Lyn Worrall
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Really disappointed with this page spreading the iceland lie. The war on women's reproductive rights is being faught worldwide, we are fighting in ireland to change our laws abs the antichoice campaign are using this lie to try to continue a law that allows for a 14yr sentence for anyone who has or helps someone have an abortion. Please do some research before sharing these types of stories.

Marie Camerlin- Slater
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Ok, people saying this is acceptable but then have a memorial card made with the baby's footprints for the grieving process. there wouldn't be any grieving if you didn't have the abortion. because it's wrong! So sad to play God.

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What memorial? There's nothing to grieve. Do you grieve with every menstrual period? Same thing? Getting rid of unwanted tissue.

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Celestia
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The claim that preborn children are part of women's bodies flies in the face of modern science. Preborn children are dependent upon their mothers, but they are not part of them. They have their own blood type, bone structure, and genetic code. In fact, the notion that the preborn is part of the mother would result in inane conclusions—such as the mother having four arms, four legs, and, in the case of a preborn boy, even male genitalia. We also know there are limits to 'choice.' The autonomy of any one person does not permit her to infringe on the rights of, or endanger, another. For example, the right of a man to do what he wants with his body does not permit him to rape women. And a woman’s right to do what she wants with her hands ends when she uses them to drown her children. Choice, then, is not absolute. Indeed, some choices are wrong: rape, murder, abuse, etc. Since we would not allow a mother to kill her born children by choice, we must not permit her to kill her fetus

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The fetal tissue is not viable. It is dependent on its host for life. It cannot exist independently. Women are people with bodily autonomy and anything inside that body is theirs. It is their right to decide what happens to anything on or inside their body. A fetus is not a person. It does not have rights.

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Odd Jørgensen
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Booo, bad Iceland, but what about the UK, or Denmark, with 90% and 98% terminations? Every woman should get to decide for themselves what to do, not everyone is willing or able to care 24/7 for a special needs child for the rest of their life.

Just saying
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The word 'holocaust' means the consigning of bodies to a fire. In Nazi Germany, thousands of 'handicapped' people, including DS people, were terminated and incinerated. We're not like the Nazis though, of course, because we terminate and incinerate 'handicapped' people before they are born.

Jessabelle
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Why is this important? Who cares! Is it a disease to have downs? Like " ok guys, downs have been contained and we don't get those types of people here! " smh

Debbie Andersson
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Poking a needle through the stomach sounds highly uneccesary, downs or not, what if they kill the fetus with the needle without the mother even wanted an abortion to begin with? And what would happen if she keeps it without knowing it´s dead, some sort of posioning that puts her life at risk? Good going...Not.

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If they do in your stomach, that's a problem. Fetuses generally are not eaten.

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makki
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Both the people who are going through abortion and those who decide not to are both incredibly strong and both are still human. you definitely cannot blame a person for going through the abortion and you definitely can't blame a person for not going through it! I absolutely hate it when people gate on people who do go through the abortion because it was probably hard enough for them as it is without you judging them for it! STAY STRONG AND TRUE TO YOUR OPINIONS!! <3 <3

William Morales
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think most of agree on having the right, and why we make that decision. I guess what bothers me is that this country is actively campaigning people in that direction, it seems bit disturbing.

Rio Nido San Clementes
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm wondering at what stage in pregnancy they can do the test, & then at what stage they abort....from the article it seems that the fetus already has legs...

Jeni Blankenship
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There are tests available as early 10-13 weeks (this can be done with a genetic blood test on the mother through companies like Natera). Before those tests were available (and in cases where the family can't afford them currently), people usually had to wait later for an ultrasound and the ability to do an amniocentesis. When a woman might chose to abort would likely largely depend on when they were able to test and whether or not they wanted to follow up the initial test with additional tests.

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Joyce Berman
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I know that Downs Syndrome children can be loving, and some may learn to be nearly self-sufficient, but it should be up to the parents whether they are willing to take on this challenge. I'm against abortion, but still think the parents get to make the decision on this one, or in the case of any other horrible birth defect that is not treatable/curable. Hard to say that everyone's opinion should agree with mine.

Daesai Sereiphiel
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's a personal choice, for sure. Is there any research to show that down syndrome is "bad"? Societal standards don't mean much because they're always being changed and usually don't have a basis in science/reason. Is DS really bad? What if its an essential part of our evolution? Do we really understand the DS gene and what its purpose is in the greater genome? I don't think we have enough information to really judge whether one gene or another deserves preference. Honestly, we all have the DS gene. It's just a matter of training our body to keep it off or to allow it to continue turning on randomly. There's a lot of "junk" DNA in our body. DNA that we do not understand the purpose of. I don't think it's a good idea to "phase" DS genes out until we fully understand the human genome. Additionally, it's just inhumane. Have these people never heard of adoption?

Blue Cicada
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I work with students with a variety of developmental disabilities. An extra 23rd chromosome presents a cardiac, digestive tract, and cognitive issues. These "higher maintenance" children grow up to be loving and lovable adults. Multiple factors affect how high functioning and how independent a person with ds can be. The average person with ds has just as good a quality of life as anyone else. Testing pregnant women with the goal of eliminating healthy ds fetuses isn't just unethical, it's stupid. You're literally preventing healthy fetuses from having the chance to grow into interesting, funny, hard working and lovable adults. You want to reduce the chances of a baby born with painful, long term, debilitating deformities and developmental delays? Stop alcohol and drug use in pregnant women. Immediate residential treatment for any pregnant woman who wants it. Fetal alcohol syndrome and fetal drug addiction are the true problems

Michelangelo
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is f****d up they try to frame the people who think it's horrible as the bad ones when their not. Some people say it's just like the debate on abortion but it's not they're specifically targeting baby's with Down syndrome. This is practically what the nazis did by killing people with disabilities and now it's being portrayed as some graceful act of mercy who's next old people. It's ironic how the left use the word nazi as an insult but are completely oblivious to the fact that they are turning into them.

Gillian Black
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

so we kill them off do we I thought this was about finding a cure, discusting is all I can say, these precious people are what makes the world go round, who are we to judge, all our children are God given , I had one with Muscular Dystrophy, and one with a double hare lip, soon with it be that all with these will be terminated because they dont fit the norm. Both my boys did well at school and had and have great jobs , married , and had children of there own, and yes one of my grandies has Asperges oh no should have killed her off , yeah right , my Duchenne muscular my boy died at 27 we were given a life of 16 years he lived a full and happy life, even marrying. Downs kids are great and can do everything , who is to say we are normal , what is normal and who is the judge, one day we will face our maker , and try talking your way out of this one, a disabled person is a person with a difference that is all and we are all different. so work it out for your selves

Linda Gulley
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There is NO HEART at 6 weeks. A clump of pulsing cells is not a formed heart. Ben - you can get help. There is information from factual sources available. Falcon - I know all about fetal development. Seems you could use a refresher that is factual. Fetal tissue is not viable and not a person. Gillian - Where is your obstetrics practice located? I want to be sure none of my friends see you since you are not able to comprehend medical facts. Conception!? Two cells is a person now? That's just madness.

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Leo McKinnon
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How do ypu eliminate down syndrom in Iceland by aborting the fetus ? It is a genetic predisposition . It's not like the downies are getting married and having downie children. Also it would be impossible to eliminte the downie from your dna. Downies have been around for centuries and always will be. Love them like the human being that they are !!!

Nyree Huh
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

For everyone bitching about this, IF you want rights to be taken away from others why don't we choose what rights you shouldn't have either. Maybe to clean water or something, how would you like that? mind your own business what others choose to do, if they can't take care of these children do you honestly think it's better for them to rot in orphanages or foster care, or are you the one who will swoop in and save / adopt them don't think you are are you.

Mn gooze
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"....from the National University Hospital of Iceland, where 70% of Icelandic children are born" That sentence alone says alot about the specialized medical situtation in iceland. I Just googled the terms "iceland hospitals" and Maps showed me 13 hospitals and one of em was an animal hospital. I'm sure there are some smaller hospitals and medical centers that don't show up on Maps but still. I live in a major metropolitan area and we have major 12 hospitals.

Patrick Bateman
Community Member
7 years ago

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Why would you not have this test done? I would want to know whether or not my child would 've born with a disability and have the option to terminate. Why not eradicate downs or any other life changing handicap? We eradicated smallpox and it was a good thing. I guess it just comes down to which side of the line you're on when it comes to abortion.

Monilip
Community Member
7 years ago

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I thiknk testing is a good thing. If I know about problem (and child with Down Syndrom is a problem) I can prepare for it. But I am against eugenics and killing people just because they may be disabled. I don't think we should be allowed to kill disabled people, both born and unborn.

Tiari
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The thing is... can you allow women to abort healthy fetuses, but prohibit the abortion of a sick fetus? That is not really an option, isn't it?

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KeeperOfProphecies
Community Member
7 years ago

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Terrible. We need more people with low-functioning brains in the world.

Mike Rota
Community Member
7 years ago

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I don't see why eliminating this genetic disorder is unethical! Is it more ethical for society to have to support someone who is incapable of caring for themselves? Normally I'm against abortion, but in cases of genetic abnormalities I'm all for it.

Celestia
Community Member
7 years ago

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abortions should be illegal if you don't want to have a child give it to an adoption center, who knows what they can become..... smh, too many people are too quick to judge.....

Dschulidschi
Community Member
7 years ago

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The problem is that an Icelandic women seems not to have any choice but to abort the unborn due to the society she lives in... In an environment where you can see kids and grown ups with these kind of 'handicap' (it comes in different ways and a lot of these people can live a good and healthy life!), it might be a lot easier to decide PRO baby...

Sierra Hall
Community Member
7 years ago

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My aunt was tested and told that my cousin (who is the same age as me) would have autism. Guess what, he didn't. Test can be wrong.

Ben Smith
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There is no definitive test for autism in a fetus. The doctor may have said, "there is a higher probability for autism" or something along those lines, but would never have said, "your baby has autism."

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Vicki Gallmeyer
Community Member
7 years ago

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abortion is wrong, period...from natural conception to natural death...the way God intended it

Aunt Messy
Community Member
7 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You don't like abortion? Don't get one. Now quit trying to shove your nose up our crotches and tend to your own.

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